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MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:04 pm

Canadian Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first OSCE investigators who arrived at the scene of the disaster, reported that "there have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with almost looks like machine gun fire, very, very strong machine gun fire that has left these unique marks that we haven’t seen anywhere else. We have been asked, for example, have we seen any examples of missile. Well, no we haven’t. That’s the answer."

Of course, he is not an expert in air crash investigations, but he was there very quickly. And worth remembering that none of the locals who saw the explosion in the sky saw the big smoke plume a Buk apparently leaves. They did, however, see a fighter near the doomed airliner, as did the Russian satellites and radar.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:18 am

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925?d=1

US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
BY HARIS HUSSAIN - 7 AUGUST 2014 @ 8:20 AM

KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said “some US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame”.

This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organisation.

In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defence Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.

They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and Eurocontrol.

“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organisation reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures.

“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.

Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.

Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.

Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.

Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine.

In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still smouldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days”.

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.

Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence.

“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organising to come later,” Parry had said.

Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centred around the cockpit.

“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile.

“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly.”

He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.

“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.

“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.


Time will tell, though certain actions and inactions are raising many questions.

1. Ukrainian security seizing the ATC tapes. Compare this with the speed with which material relevant to the missing Malaysian airliner was published.

2. Nothing resembling 'evidence' being produced by the US, despite all the sound and fury.

3. Despite eastern Ukraine being one of the most heavily-watched areas in the world, no satellite images have been produced by the US or NATO.

4. Satellite images and a mound of data has been produced by Russia - at which point, the hysteria died down noticeably.

All us peasants can do is await developments. But if the plane was indeed shot down by Kiev, I have simply NO idea how America and its allies are going to talk their way out of this one.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:12 pm

Panic from Kiev:

http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-accuses-russia-of-attempting-false-flag-with-mh17-shoot-down/

The official MH17 narrative still prevails: the “pro-Russian rebels” shot down Malaysian airlines MH17 with a Buk missile system provided by Russia.

In a new and rather unusual twist, however, according to the Kiev regime, the Donetsk militia did not intend to shoot down Malaysian airlines MH17. What the “pro-Russian rebels” were aiming at was a Russian Aeroflot passenger plane.

The MH17 was shot down “by mistake” according to an official statement by the head of Ukraine’s Secret Service, Valentyn Nalyvaichenko (Ukraine News Service, August 7, 2014)


According to SBU Chief Nalyvaichenko:

“Ukraine’s law enforcement and intelligence agencies have established during the investigation into a terrorist attack on the Boeing… that on that day, July 17, and at that time military mercenaries and terrorists from the Russian Federation planned to carry out a terrorist attack against a passenger aircraft of Aeroflot en route from Moscow to Larnaca… as a pretext for the further invasion by Russia,”

“This cynical terrorist attack was planned for the day when the [Malaysia Airlines] plane happened to fly by, planned by war criminals as a pretext for the further military invasion by the Russian Federation, that is, there would be a casus belli,” he added.

Thus, according Nalyvaichenko, the terrorists downed the Malaysian airliner by mistake.” (Ukraine Interfax News, August 8, 2014)
Nalyvaichenko said that the Kiev government reached this conclusion “in the course of its own investigation into the downing of MH17″.

According to Britain’s foremost news tabloid, The Mail on Sunday, quoting the head of Ukraine intelligence, the insidious design of the pro-Russian rebels (supported by Moscow) was to shoot down a Russian commercial airline plane, with a view to blaming the Ukrainian government. The objective of this alleged “false flag” covert op was to create a justifiable and credible pretext for Vladimir Putin to declare war on Ukraine.

In an utterly twisted logic, according to Ukraine’s head of intelligence:

“the [Donesk] rebels were meant to down [the] Aeroflot plane… to justify the invasion [of Ukraine by Russia]“,


More loony garbage from Kiev at link.

Even by Kiev's extremely low standards, that's bad - almost as bad as claiming the Odessa victims set fire to themselves.

I would take that sh*te as proof-positive that it was Kiev that did it, and they are now in a complete panic.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:22 pm

My, it's taking  a long time for those cockpit voice recorders to be released! Is Langley having trouble explaining this away?



Farnborough not playing ball? Maybe wanting the world to know that MH17 was shot down by ANOTHER PLANE that targetted the pilot on purpose?

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:56 pm

So strange that..... mad 
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:52 pm

From:

http://rt.com/news/181300-mh17-flight-record-public/

Kiev should make public the records of communications between the Ukrainian air traffic control and the Malaysian Airlines flight 17 in the hours before it was shot down over Ukraine’s turbulent east, Russia’s UN envoy said.

The issue was among several Russia raised at a UN Security Council meeting, which was called by Russia to discuss the progress of the investigation into the tragic incident, which killed 298 people in July, Vitaly Churkin said. Moscow sees the shortage of proper evidence known to the public so far as wrong.

“As far as we know, [UN’s civil aviation watchdog] ICAO is being kept on the sidelines of the investigation, which has been conducted for some time,” Churkin said.

Churkin added that Jeffrey Feltman, UN Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs, who is to visit Kiev soon, would ask the Ukrainian government about the communications records between air traffic controllers and the plane.

“We have agreed that he would vent this issue among others,” Churkin said. “How are the Ukrainians playing their part in the international investigation? What comes to mind: they must provide the records of communications of their air traffic controllers so that we could understand why they directed the Malaysian plane into the conflict zone.”

A preliminary report into the downing of MH17 is expected later this month. According to Britain’s envoy to the UN, Mark Lyall Grant, the report would not be classified. After its publication some two months would be given to all parties interested to make their comments on the document.


Kiev's still trying to get rid of that embarrassing chunk containing the pilot's last words:

'Why is that Ukrainian jet so close to us? What's he doing - my God, it looks as if he's going to open f------'

Clue for anyone who still hasn't grasped the relevance of that photo of the wreckage. The cockpit area shows both entry AND exit damage.


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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:08 pm

Damn this social media stuff.....
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:14 pm

I cannot wait to see how all this is explained away, Lily. Anyone who wants, can see actual evidence already, as opposed to whatever nonsense and lies are spun by Langley.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:17 pm

It WILL be interesting, Bonny. I wonder if they will try the 'let it go away quietly' routine?
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:25 pm

Well, Obama may do a 'Sorry, folks, we were blindsided by some folks in Kiev, folks', speech, along the lines of the one he made about torturing some folks. And his off-the-record remarks about being annoyed by Israel blindsiding the US by helping themselves to the contents of that weapons store.

And then 'help' the increasingly-fractious Right Sektor in Ukraine to do a bit more regime-changing? A good few members of the EU are already annoyed about the whole 'sanctions' business, and it ain't Putin they're blaming, it's the US.

I just don't know. I suppose it depends on just how desperate Vice President Biden is for his son to frack Hell out of Eastern Ukraine - right now, the whole thing is a total mess.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:29 pm

Am reminded of Laurel and Hardy at the moment, Bonny. Another fine mess...........

Although, Laurel and Hardy were truly wonderful and don't deserve to be brought into this.  embarass 
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:34 pm

I notice today's word, be it riots, downed airliners or foreign policy, appears to be MESS. I suspect there is a good reason for that...

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:40 pm

Hmmm....let me think.  mad 
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:56 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11065413/Russia-demands-publication-of-recordings-from-downed-flight-MH17.html

Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17
The data from the black boxes should be published, says Russia's deputy defence minister, saying the 'Boeing catastrophe throws up more and more questions'

Russia is demanding to know why international investigators have yet to publish the black box data from a Malaysian airliner that was shot down over eastern Ukraine in July, a deputy defence minister said in an interview published on Saturday.
Moscow blames Ukraine for the disaster, in which all 298 passengers and crew were killed. In a version of events widely believed in the West, Ukraine says the Boeing 777 was shot down by pro-Russian separatists with a surface-to-air missile.
"The Boeing catastrophe throws up more and more questions. But lately not many people are talking about this," Anatoly Antonov, deputy defence minister, told RIA news agency.
"Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? Why haven't the data been presented from the international investigation of the black boxes? Who doesn't want this to happen?"
The interview marked the latest example of Moscow's attempts to go on the media offensive at a time when it faces intense international pressure over mounting evidence of its military support for the rebels, something it continues to deny.

The Netherlands, which had 195 nationals on board the flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, is leading the international investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
The July 17 incident stirred international outrage, which only increased when rebel fighters impeded investigators' access to the bodies and wreckage.
Mr Antonov said Russia had established that a Ukrainian Su-25 military aircraft was in the vicinity of the Malaysian airliner.
"Where is the transcript of the recordings of conversations between the pilot of this plane and his command? How did a military aircraft come to be alongside a civilian one?

"If people are saying today that a rocket was fired from the ground towards that military plane, then I'd like to look that military pilot in the eye who used a civilian plane as cover, if of course that's what happened," Mr Antonov said.
His comments appeared to allow for the possibility that rebels might have downed the airliner in a failed attempt to hit a Ukrainian military plane, although he said these were only "working versions" of what may have happened.
Mr Antonov said his ministry was pressing for answers about the tragedy from the United States, Ukraine and European countries.
He reiterated Russia's denials of military intervention in Ukraine: "When people say today that Russia has launched aggression or war against Ukraine, that is all nonsense."


From the comments, not too many are believing the original Evil Russkis version.

I have little doubt that Russia knows EXACTLY who shot the plane down - they were probably eavesdropping on Ukraine ATC at the time.

The very fact that Obama, Kerry and co STFU about it as soon as all that data was released by Russia speaks volumes. As does the cockpit of the plane.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:39 pm

I think we all know why.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:46 pm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/dutch-investigators-to-announce-initial-findings-over-plane-downed-in-ukraine.25235716

A PRELIMINARY report on the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over wartorn Ukraine will be published next Tuesday.

The Dutch Safety Board (DSB), which is leading the investigation into the disaster in which 10 Britons were among the 298 people killed, said: "The preliminary report will present factual information based on the sources available to the DSB.

"In the months to come further investigation is nee-ded before the final report can be written."

The DSB expects to pub-lish the final report within a year after the crash.

No-one has claimed res-ponsibility for the shooting down of the Malaysia Air-lines Boeing 777 over Ukraine on July 17, but it is suspected that the plane may have been hit by a missile fired by pro-Russian separatists.

The plane was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, with the majority of those on board being Dutch.

The DSB has not been able to visit the crash site because the safety of investigators could not be guaranteed.

The flight's black boxes were recovered and were taken the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch's headquarters in Farnborough, Hampshire, for analysis.

The DSB said that both the boxes were damaged but that valid flight data had been successfully downloaded.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:53 pm

I believe we are at the point in history where telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:57 pm

Quite, Lily. It's going to be fascinating to see if this report is honest, or if it attempts to gloss over inconvenient truths.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:46 pm

I fear it will gloss over it all but I stand to be corrected.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:13 pm

I've seen a lot of internet chatter about the countries most involved signing an agreement to keep the results under wraps:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-causes-of-the-mh17-crash-are-classified-ukraine-netherlands-australia-belgium-signed-a-non-disclosure-agreement/5397194

In the framework of the 4-country agreement signed on 8 August between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia, information on the progress and results of the investigation of the disaster will remain classified.

This was confirmed at a briefing in Kiev under the auspices of the office of the Prosecutor General Yuri Boychenko. In his words, the results of the investigation will be published once completed only if a consensus agreement of all parties that have signed the agreement prevails.


More at link.

Whether there is any truth in that, or whether it's just internet nonsense, remains to be seen.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:48 pm

Thanks Bonny. We can only wait and see.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:41 am

Whitewash and waffle:

http://news.sky.com/story/1332594/flight-mh17-downed-by-high-energy-objects

Crash investigators say flight MH17 was probably downed by "a large number of high-energy objects".

An initial report by the Dutch Safety Board, which is leading the investigation into the July 17 disaster, found it likely the Malaysia Airlines plane broke up in the air as a result of "structural damage", caused by the items which "penetrated the aircraft from outside".

It said: "There are no indications that the MH17 crash was caused by a technical fault or by actions of the crew."

All 298 passengers and crew on board the plane were killed when the aircraft, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur over an area in eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists.

The rebels in Ukraine have publicly denied responsibility for shooting down the aircraft.

Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, said: "The MH17 crash has shocked the world and raised many questions.

"The Dutch Safety Board wishes to determine the cause of the crash, for the sake of the loved ones of the victims and for society at large.

"The initial results of the investigation point towards an external cause of the MH17 crash.

"More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision.

"The Safety Board believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead."

Only 193 of those on board have been positively identified, including Newcastle United fans Liam Sweeney, 28, and John Alder, 63, who were travelling to New Zealand to watch their team play.

Forensic teams are still trying to identify remains found in the wreckage of the aircraft.

Most of those on board were Dutch, but there were also people from Malaysia, Canada, Germany, Indonesia, New Zealand, the Philippines and the UK.

The crash occurred just months after the still-unexplained disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

More follows...


There seems to be NO explanation so far for the jet fighter seen on radar, and by eye witnesses, or the cockpit damage which is coming from TWO directions.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:37 am

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/09/09/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-likely-downed-by-high-energy-objects-dutch-report/?intcmp=latestnews

"The damage observed in the forward section of the aircraft appears to indicate that the aircraft was penetrated by a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft," the report said. "It is likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up."

How odd, these 'objects' making entry and exit holes when they hit the cockpit, instead of homing in on the engines as is normal with missiles. No doubt Langley is working on an explanation as we speak.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:50 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1332594/flight-mh17-downed-by-high-energy-objects



The fuselage of the passenger plane had numerous puncture holes

Sky almost gets brave enough to say it. I think it's safe to assume that the investigators KNOW it was shot down  by Our Gallant Allies in Kiev. If there had been a single shred of evidence to link the shooting-down to Russia, it would have been splattered all over the world headlines today, with calls from Washington and Westminster for regime-change in Moscow, and Foggy Rasmussen would have been foaming at the mouth - again.

Why did Ukraine do it? I don't know. Some half-drunk Ukrainian pilot may have seen a big, lumbering plane painted red white and blue, and thought it was Kremlin-1, as Putin was flying back to Moscow that day. Not that he would be STUPID enough to fly over Ukraine.

Maybe it was some murderous scheme to drag the west into their war - they thought it would hit the ground in Russia?

Maybe it was yet another fkc-up, as when Ukraine shot down a Russian airliner full of Russian jews returning from Israel. Or as when their clowns shelled Russia, killing civilians (as usual).

I very much doubt we are ever going to hear the truth about this, any more than we've heard the truth about MH370.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:52 pm

As I was saying....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/09/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-dutch-investigators

Russia, Ukraine, the US, the UK, Malaysia and Australia were all given the politically sensitive report for review, and investigators say they have since amended it before publication

Yup, that rather removes the last doubt that it was shot down by Ukraine. If there had been any way at all of blaming Russia, the cabal would have been shrieking their collective lying heads off about it.

Russia doesn't need to do or say anything, as its hands are clean. The Kremlin can just add this to the large stack of cards it already has to play at an opportune time.

More about it here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-09/mh17-was-struck-multiple-high-energy-objects-outside-aircraft-crash-report-reveals

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

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