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MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:59 pm

http://www.infowars.com/ukrainian-combat-jet-returned-without-missiles-after-mh17-crash-reports/

Ukrainian air force Su-25 combat jet took off from an airbase in eastern Dnipropetrovsk carrying air-to-air missiles and returned without them on the day a Malaysia Airlines plane crashed in eastern Ukraine in July, Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper reported, citing an airbase employee.

The employee, who claims to be an eyewitness, said on July 17 that three Ukrainian combat jets took off, and that one of them, an Su-25, was carrying air-to-air missiles.

“After a while only one jet [of the three] returned, which had had those missiles… It returned without the missiles. The pilot was very frightened,” the man said. The employee stressed that only the returned Su-25 had been equipped with air-to-air missiles, and said he was sure it was not air-to-ground missiles.


The airbase worker said he remembered the pilot saying “the wrong plane” and “the plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time” after he returned from the flight.

The newspaper interviewee did not exclude the possibility that an Su-25 pilot could confuse a Boeing passenger airliner with a military jet.

“This could be. There was quite a long distance, he could have failed to see what exactly that plane was,” the man said.


None of that is from the most reliable of sources, so caveat emptor.

However - it does tie in with eyewitnesses on the ground, with the data released by Russia, and the damage to the plane's cockpit.

The Ukrainian government is so utterly useless, and so careless of people's lives, that it is entirely possible that if they knew Putin was flying back from South America at the time, some hotshot moron saw a big, lumbering plane with similar livery to Kremlin-1 or whatever it's called, and opened fire.

And yes, they are stupid enough, as events of the last year have amply proven.

And let us not forget that United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airbus, the crew having somehow managed to convince themselves that a bumbling great airbus was an attacking fighter.

Doubtless NSA knows the truth, especially as most of NATO and the world's spy satellites were aimed at that patch of sky when the plane went down.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:25 pm

OMG the ramifications of this are crazy......
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:42 pm

The thing that first made me suspicious was the way the Official Version appeared only about an hour after the plane went down, Lily.

Anything could have happened. It could have been a catastrophic structural failure, fire on board, metal fatigue, part of the rudder fell off, bomb, suicidal pilot - anything.

But oh no, within a hour the world was being told that 'Russian rebels had shot it down with a Russian BuK'. And it just got worse from then on, with the US 'evidence' turning out to have been data and imagery nicked from a video game, ATC tapes swiped by the Kiev SS, or whatever they're called....

I doubt if we will ever know the whole truth about either Malaysian airliner, frankly.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:06 pm

I suspect we won't either. Those poor people will never have closure over this either.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:41 pm

A year on, we are still waiting and seeing, with NOTHING released from Kiev ATC, NOTHING from US satellites, etc. Though we did get a load of bilge from Australia involving faked up videos, and tales of people parachuting from planes - all of which were dismissed PDQ.

This story is appearing in Russian sources:


http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/ukraine-results-of-mh-17-disaster.html

Yesterday the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine on European integration, Elena Zerkal said:

"With regard to criminal investigation, we set up a joint investigation team and the investigation is still ongoing. At the same time it is classified and confidential and the results will not be presented for public discussion."


And:

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150724/1024990369.html

MOSCOW (Sputnik), Anastasia Levchenko — Earlier this week, Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister for European Integration Olena Zerkal claimed that the results of the official MH17 international investigation would not be made publicly available.
"It sounds a bit strange. Because this issue [MH17 investigation] is being so widely discussed already, not just in the Western media, but also in the Russian and Ukrainian media… I don’t think this statement reflects the real situation. As for the actual results of the international investigation, the Russian position is that they should be made available to all interested countries," Chizhov said.
The EU envoy added that Moscow has maintained this stance when proposing a draft resolution at the UN Security Council.
Local workers transport a piece of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 wreckage at the site of the plane crash near the village of Hrabove (Grabovo) in Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine November 20, 2014.
© REUTERS/ ANTONIO BRONIC
West Exploits MH17 Crash to Fuel Conflict in Ukraine – German Politician
Earlier in July, Russia submitted a draft resolution to the UN Security Council, calling for the United Nations' role in the investigation into the MH17 crash to be enhanced.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150724/1024990369.html#ixzz3gpMqaqxI

“Responses to the MH17 incident have been suspect from the first,” veteran International Herald Tribune correspondent and European affairs analyst Patrick Smith told Sputnik.
“There has been a worrisome absence of hard evidence made public, apart from Russia’s report that it had satellite imagery indicating two Ukrainian fighter jets had been following the airliner prior to the explosion. This report, was of course, ignored among the Western powers.”
On Tuesday, Ukrainian Deputy Foreign Minister for European Integration Olena Zerkal told a briefing in Kiev that the results of the international inquiry would remain classified.
“The latest determination by the Kiev government to classify results of an international investigation adds significantly to the concerns of many that the Ukrainian air force may have been responsible for the fatal mistake.”


Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150722/1024904354.html#ixzz3gpN027Aa


As I say, these are Russian sources, so, caveat emptor. But it is impossible not to feel that, because Russia is jumping up and down, demanding a full, international, public inquiry, etc., while Kiev (aka Washington) is trying to shut down the investigation, there is only one realistic explanation.

That the West knows perfectly well that it was Ukrainian forces that shot the plane down, for reasons so far unknown.

Worth remembering that Ukraine has 'previous' for shooting down airliners, and then trying to deny it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 was a commercial flight shot down by the Ukrainian military over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. No one on board survived. The crash site is about 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km south-southeast of Feodosiya in Crimea. Ukraine eventually admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.[1] Ukraine ended up paying $15 million to surviving family members of 78 victims ($200,000 per victim).[/i]

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:17 pm

This is hardly surprising?  Probably taking the view that it will all be forgotten in time?
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:11 am

The Dutch report is due out today, so I am sure we are all looking forward to reading that whitewash, sorry, I mean, conclusive evidence that not only did the Evil Russkis do it, Putin did it in person, despite the odd coincidence of him having been in an airliner with similar livery to the downed jet, over the same area, at about the same time.

The so-called 'investigation' is rumoured to have ignored everything from BuK, all the genuine satellite imagery, etc. Perish the thought that one of the drunken Ukie neo-nazis the West is allied with could have fired one of the many old BuKs Kiev has at a civilian airliner!

https://www.rt.com/news/318452-mh17-dutch-probe-questions/

That will do for starters; the full whitewash, I mean report, will come later.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:15 am

https://www.rt.com/news/318457-mh17-report-plane-crash/

09:27 GMT
The Netherlands only gave Russian experts photos of fragments belonging to the missile that could have taken down the MH17 Boeing, Almaz-Antey said.

“The missile fragments – and we mean not the destructive elements, but precisely the fragments of the missile – were presented to us in photos of very average quality. Some of them raise doubts,” Almaz-Antey representatives said.


Photos of alleged evidence? Sounds like they've been taking lessons from the Gonzo school of investigation.

Let's hope we find out why Kiev ATC sent the airliner into that area in the first place......

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:30 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1568713/mh17-was-shot-down-by-buk-missile-report

Investigators have concluded Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile, according to victims' relatives.

The Dutch-led team have been examining the shooting down of the Boeing 777 over eastern Ukraine in which 298 people were killed last year.

Its report will focus on four distinct aspects of the crash: the cause, the extent to which the passengers on board were conscious of the crash, the issue of flying over conflict areas and, finally, the question over why Dutch victims' relatives had to wait two to four days before receiving confirmation from Dutch authorities that their loved ones were on board.

The Ukrainian and Western governments have long blamed pro-Russian separatists, claiming that they used a BUK missile.

Ahead of the report's release, Russia rejected claims it was responsible for shooting down the airliner.

It says its report directly contradicts the one to be published by Dutch authorities.


It quite possibly was shot down by a BuK; after all, Kiev has dozens of old BuKs. Let's hope the whitewash, I mean report, deals with the strange holes in the cockpit, and a host of other matters.

Not least HOW the west could have announced, within hours of the disaster, that it was shot down by a BuK - unless Kiev shot it down.

Note that the West hasn't produced a single genuine satellite image - photoshopped fakery stolen from Call of Duty doesn't count.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:49 pm

Well, that was much ado about nothing.

The Dutch investigators announced that the plane was hit by a Buk. But no, they don't know where the BuK came from.

Given that the Kiev lot had dozens of them, and they haven't been able to fingerpoint at Russia - despite Washington's best efforts - one could be forgiven for deciding that it was Our Gallant Allies the Ukies.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:47 pm

All in all, one helluva dirty business.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:59 pm

Yes, Lily. I am waiting to read a sensible, neutral dissection of this report on ZH or similar, by people who actually know what they are talking about. Which lets out most of the MSM.

I am absolutely sick of reading concocted garbage from Langley, or wherever they dream rubbish up.

Who had a lot of old BuKs left over from Soviet days?

~ Ukraine.

Who has been committing appalling war crimes against its own civilians?

~ Ukraine.

Who let a passenger jet fly right into a war zone?

~Ukraine.

Who had most to gain from a passenger jet being shot down over said war zone, and Russia being blamed?

~ Ukraine.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:38 pm

That's what they do to confuse everyone?  Hide in plain sight I think it is now?  mad
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:47 pm

I notice the Dutch report appears to have ignored the many eye-witnesses on the ground that said they saw a fighter jet in the area at the time the airliner was hit.

I doubt if we will ever know the truth, Lily - we don't even know the actual truth about Lockerbie, after all.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:50 pm

I read that too, Bonny.  So why ignore those reports, it doesn't make sense?

Yes, that's another one........
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:00 pm

It makes perfect sense to ignore reports that don't fit the script, just like it makes perfect sense for Washington to NOT produce any satellite photos, etc - if they know perfectly well who shot the plane down.

And it would be politically embarrassing for the truth - that it was Ukraine - to come out.

Look back to the start of this thread, and how quickly the US and others were claiming it was a BuK.

MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE
Post bb1 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:42 pm


First post when it was breaking news. Twenty minutes later:


Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:02 pm

From Reuters:
Malaysian plane shot down by Buk missile: Ukrainian adviser to Ifax

A
Malaysian passenger plane that came down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday
was shot down by a Buk ground-to-air missile, a Ukrainian interior
ministry official, quoted by Interfax news agency said.


THE ONLY WAY UKRAINE COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT SO RAPIDLY WAS IF THEY DID IT THEMSELVES.

Note that there was never any chatter about mechanical failure, weather, a bomb, nothing. Less than half an hour after the first news of the crash, Ukraine was shouting about BuKs and concocting social media 'evidence'.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:08 pm

mad mad mad
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:22 pm

Remember, half of the State Department was in Ukraine at the time; the US had satellites overhead, naturally, and there was a sabre-rattling NATO exercise going on in the Black Sea.

Yet not one genuine image has been produced by Washington. Ukraine did produce what was supposed to be a video of THE BuK, but that was hastily scrubbed when someone zoomed on a street sign and it was shown to be firmly in Kiev territory.

Oh, and Kiev produced 'satellite images' that turned out to have come from Call of Duty.

Oh, and Mari Harf read something on social media.

Apart from those feeble efforts - nothing from Washington. IMO, it's the dog that didn't bark.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:30 pm

Oh dear me.....how could they be that sloppy?  biggrin
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:16 pm

Apart from anything else, Kiev has a great many ageing BuKs - Donbass didn't have any. Has everyone in the western media been drinking Kool-Aid?

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:25 pm

And notice we didn't get the cockpit voice recorder, Ukrainian ATC - none of the normal material which is routinely released when these tragedies occur.

Is everyone hypnotised or something? Can't see beyond the words 'Russian missile'? Don't they know Ukraine was part of the USSR when communism fell, and Ukraine have hung onto ancient ordnance ever since? Like BuKs which should have been decommissioned years ago - which this one was?

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:08 pm

I think they were pandering to typical Americans in the media.  They are often quite bad with geography and history.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:28 pm

It's not even logical, Lily. Ask the question:

Who is more likely to have used an ancient BuK to bring down an airliner? The amateur fighters that don't have them, or the incompetent Ukraine military that have hundreds?

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:35 pm

I hear you, Bonny.  smile
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:42 pm

I simply do not believe US spy satellites didn't see a damn great thing like that being launched, Lily, and I can only think of one reason for Washington to fail to produce the images.

They know it was their own Ukrainian allies that did it.

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