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MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:59 pm

LL, how could you forget Al Gore?   biggrin   

Bonny, that sounds plausible.

Walter Mondale - Jimmy Carter

Gerald Ford - Nelson Rockefeller.

Pres - V-Ps.


Last edited by lily on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Lamplighter on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:00 pm

bb1 wrote:
Does anyone remember anyone who ever was?

LBJ? Gerald Ford?
LBJ to Kennedy, Gerald Ford to Nixon as far as I recall. LL
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Sabot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:07 pm

lily wrote:I can say with 100% honesty, it gets me really upset.

Although I used to like him years ago, McCain is the same as the rest when you get right down to it......

Of course it is, Lily. But Britain isn't any better. How do you think I feel when I watch a bunch of megalomaniac cretins decimating my country, from the other side of The Chanel.

I laugh, Ha Ha, But it isn't very funny. I love the land of my birth. I just don't want to live there anymore. And I am not sticking around to watch the decline.

Perhaps I was fortunate in being able to leave, but I was never anything other than ordinary. It took great courage to just go.
But never in all my born days have I been treated quite so kindly as France has treated me. And in twenty years it just goes on getting better. I live in a world of total kindness and good manners.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Lamplighter on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:11 pm

lily wrote:LL, how could you forget Al Gore?   biggrin   

Bonny, that sounds plausible.

Walter Mondale - Jimmy Carter

Gerald Ford - Nelson Rockefeller.

Pres - V-Ps.
Not my historical area, lily, I just know a few names, mainly the ones who later became President. LL
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Sabot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:48 pm

Lamplighter wrote:
lily wrote:LL, how could you forget Al Gore?   biggrin   

Bonny, that sounds plausible.

Walter Mondale - Jimmy Carter

Gerald Ford - Nelson Rockefeller.

Pres - V-Ps.
 Not my historical area, lily, I just know a few names, mainly the ones who later became President.  LL

Me too, LL. Just the ones who made it. And who remembers The Deputy Prime Minister either?

Yep, I was The President of The United States. Yep, I was The Prime Minster of Great Britain. Let's not talk about the disasters. Not fair. Nothing to do with me.

Not that I have a better idea, because I don't. I think I quite like the corrupt French Politicians because they all get called to account in the end. Every single one of them.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:59 pm

-- Russia likely bears some of the responsibility for the apparent downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, U.S. President Barack Obama indicated Friday, saying pro-Russian fighters in Ukraine couldn't have operated sophisticated surface-to-air missile batteries without Russian training and support.
In the administration's strongest words yet on the downing of the jet, which left 298 people dead, Obama said rebel fighters couldn't have operated the surface-to-air missile believed responsible for the shootdown "without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia."


That makes absolutely no sense. The missile system is indeed 'sophisticated', which is why it's unlikely the rebels had it. So, these sophisticated Russian operators COULDN'T TELL AN AIRLINER AT 33,000 FEET FROM A SMALLER MILITARY PLANE AT 10,000 FEET?

Pull the other one, Obama. See above - fkc-up by his trigger-happy nazi allies in the Ukraine. Incidentally, not that it seems to matter, but as part of today's campaign to bring EU-approved peace, joy and happiness to eastern Ukraine, said trigger-happy nazis have blown up an oil refinery and killed yet more civilians.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Sabot on Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:10 pm

So a few ordinary people are frightfully pissed off. If only it mattered.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:58 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods was a series of proposals that originated within the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. The proposals, which called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in US cities and elsewhere, were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]

At the time of the proposal, Cuba had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. The operation proposed creating public support for a war against Cuba by blaming it for terrorist acts.[3] To this end, Operation Northwoods proposals recommended hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:

The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various US military and civilian targets. The operation recommended developing a "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government's anti-communist Cuban Project, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals.


Hope they didn't dust that off; that whole entry is worth reading, actually, especially the 'How to destablize a sovereign nation' section.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:12 pm

mad mad mad mad mad mad 
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:46 pm

Then there was TWA 800, which eerily crashed into the Atlantic 18 years ago yesterday:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800


Of course three dozen eye witnesses that claimed they saw a missile streak upwards to the plane were mistaken! It was a spark in an empty fuel tank!

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 pm

Sigh and another one......
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:02 am

That's the thing, Lily, there have been so many cover-ups and outright lies, sometimes told as an excuse to start wars, that it's impossible to believe anything they say.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:11 am

I know, Bonny. That is it and it really does get old. They do seem to be getting a little careless sometimes.... mad 
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Lamplighter on Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:42 am

http://www.businessinsider.com/rebel-leader-suggests-passengers-died-days-before-takeoff-2014-7

http://www.businessinsider.com/rt-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-2014-7

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/mh17-crash-pro-russia-rebels-block-access-ukraine

Posted these up as is only fair.   It seems the site is being contaminated by all and sundry tramping across it, buses passing on the nearby road etc. LL
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:44 am

It's a complete mess, LL. I can't imagine how the families of the victims feel, knowing their loved ones are still lying in a field in the middle of a very bloody warzone. I am beginning to wonder if what actually happened will stay as big as mystery as where the other airliner is.

The war's still going on - you can hear the Kiev artillery in many reports. About all it needs is for one of their bombardments to hit the 'wrong' target again - 'accidentally' of course - and the whole investigation is screwed. Meanwhile, the propaganda and accusations fly back and forth.

I saw the report about some of the deceased appearing to have been dead for some time, and put that down to amateurs not knowing what they were looking at, though God knows eastern Ukrainians have seen more than enough corpses recently. If there's anything in that, then we really are in the twilight zone.

Between this and Gaza, I despair of the human race more and more these days.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:16 pm

If you look at this feed:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-ukraine-accuses-rebels-of-destroying-evidence-live-updates#comment-38348116

Some semblance of order does seem to be being restored.

Another update from the news conference in Kuala Lumpur. Malaysian transport minister Liow Tiong Lai says he believes Russia is trying to ensure a safe route to the crash site.

"They are trying their level best to assist Malaysia to ensure we have a safe site," he says.


Of course, the site could have been secured within hours if Putin had sent troops over the border to lock it down, but that wouldn't have gone down any too well, would it?

Handiwork of the Kiev government elsewhere in Ukraine yesterday:



That's one of the more sanitized images.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:30 pm

This is why I like Ron Paul:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Ron-Paul-Putin-Malaysian-flight/2014/07/18/id/583590/

Ron Paul: Don't Blame Putin For Malaysian Jet Shoot Down
Friday, 18 Jul 2014 02:44 PM
By Courtney Coren

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Many are pointing fingers at Russian President Vladimir Putin for giving weapons to the pro-Russian Ukrainian rebels that are being linked to the shootdown of the Malaysia Airlines jet that crashed in Ukraine, but former Rep. Ron Paul says that Putin shouldn't be blamed.

"Putin is a little bit smarter than that," Paul told John Bachman on "America's Forum" on Newsmax TV on Friday. "I don't think he would ever come close to participating in an act like this."

The Texas Republican said that the fact that Russians may have provided the weapons to the Ukrainian rebels is not enough to put the blame on the Russian president.

"That may well be true, but guess what, ISIS has a lot of American weapons," he said. "We sent weapons into Syria to help the rebels and al-Qaida ends up getting it — it doesn't mean that our American government and Obama deliberately wanted ISIS to get American weapons."

"So who gets the weapons is a big difference between how they got them and what happened and what the motivations were," Paul added. "So even if it was a Russian weapon — doesn't mean a lot."

The former Texas congressman says that he does find it "interesting the way the flight was changed — make it land in Russia and it would have been a greater detriment to the Russians and the Cold War could be resumed."

Paul contends that "there's a lot of people itching for the Cold War and they don't want to do anything to even talk with the Russians."

The former Republican presidential candidate says that the United States shares responsibility for the conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

"It's pretty evident that the whole problem in Ukraine started approximately a year ago when the Europeans, along with the United States, overthrew an elected government and overthrew [former Ukrainian President Viktor] Yanukovych — insisting that there'd be civil strife over there," he explained.

he United States instituted sanctions against Russia Tuesday aimed at Russia's financial institutions and defense sector, which Paul considers "acts of war."

"They want to put on these sanctions, which are actually acts of war and the consequence is usually economic blowback," he said.

Paul says that sanctions are "seductive," but that in reality it "is just war talk, war mongering."

"If we get into a fight with a country and war breaks out, the very first thing we do is put on sanctions and blockade them and try to keep resources out of their country," he said.

"So if you start with that, I consider this an act of war. It's not quite like shooting at each other," the Texas Republican added.

Paul says that we should approach the situation with the downed Malaysian jet "cautiously."

"Under these circumstances, it's very difficult to get the real information so everybody's angling to propagandize and make their position known," he said.

"It'd be unwise to say, well, the Russians did it, or the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it."


===========

I'd vote for him; he's intelligent, and his first reaction to events isn't to start foaming at the mouth and finger-pointing. And yes, the West was indeed the catalyst for all the bloodshed.

That EU/NATO expansion has worked out really well, and doubtless Biden's son, and the other chancer that fund-raised for Kerry, are enjoying their lucrative new jobs in Ukrainian oil.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:14 pm

Have been a big Ron Paul supporter for quite some time. He is a friend to common sense.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:30 pm

It's a pleasure to read him, Lily, he is head and shoulders above most of the current shower.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  lily on Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:44 pm

He is big on our Constitution, Bonny amongst other things....
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:46 pm

He's right to be, Lily, the Constitution guards against all the horrors currently unfolding in the US and the wider world at present.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Pedro Silva on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:34 pm

My friends, this was taken from Sky News:

http://news.sky.com/story/1303759/britain-warns-putin-worlds-eyes-are-on-you
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  bb1 on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Pedro, knowing rather a lot about the propaganda barrage and outright lies being spewed by 'Britain' about the referendum campaign, I wouldn't listen to the British government if it told me water was wet.

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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Pedro Silva on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:38 pm

bb1, I agree with you.
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Re: MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

Post  Lamplighter on Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:08 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/1303973/dutch-fury-as-mh17-bodies-dragged-around
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