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Troy Davis, time is fast running out ...

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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:45 pm

I don't think I could ever defend the death penality again after this, it's awful - that wasn't justice, it was murder.

IMO, there should have been a new trial, with the death penalty OFF the table.
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Post  crazytony Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:54 pm

bb1 wrote:I don't think I could ever defend the death penality again after this, it's awful - that wasn't justice, it was murder.

IMO, there should have been a new trial, with the death penalty OFF the table.
It was also torture. Holding him a room next to the death chamber.
Then making him suffer until faceless people made their minds up.

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Post  Pedro Silva Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:06 pm

Sad
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Post  Sabot Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:50 pm


The Death Penalty is always Murder.

What makes this so much worse is their refusal to acknowledge obvious discrepancies.
Their refusal to accept that they could be wrong, and that the trial was less than adequate. They are so far up their own righteousness that they would rather kill a man than accept the possibility that American Justice made a mistake.
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Post  lily Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:37 pm


What makes this so much worse is their refusal to acknowledge obvious discrepancies.
Their refusal to accept that they could be wrong, and that the trial was less than adequate. They are so far up their own righteousness that they would rather kill a man than accept the possibility that American Justice made a mistake
.

Well said, Sabot.

I wonder if they were also worried about Troy Davis winning a huge compensation amount which would reflect the incompetency of those involved?
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Post  Sabot Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:47 pm

lily wrote:
What makes this so much worse is their refusal to acknowledge obvious discrepancies.
Their refusal to accept that they could be wrong, and that the trial was less than adequate. They are so far up their own righteousness that they would rather kill a man than accept the possibility that American Justice made a mistake
.

Well said, Sabot.

I wonder if they were also worried about Troy Davis winning a huge compensation amount which would reflect the incompetency of those involved?

I don't know, Lily. I used to get upset and emotional about this, but I don't even feel angry anymore.
I never expected that poor, dead man to get a fair hearing. I posted my emails because it was the least that I could do. I never expected them to work. And that is deeply sad.

It's the mind set you see, and you can't change that in individual States. The ruling to do away with The Death Penalty has to come from the top. And it will take a brave man, or woman.
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:55 pm

I am reminded of the Derek Bentley case, where he was hung, not for shooting the policeman, but for apparently shouting "Let him have it, Chris'" to the 16 years old Christopher Craig who actually shot the policeman. It has always been doubtful that Bentley meant Craig to shoot, rather that he was telling Craig to hand over the gun. But Bentley was 19 and that made him liable, Craig was underage. Bentley's mental age was probably younger than his partner - a fact that was not been disclosed to the jury.

Bentley was pardoned 45 years after he died.

Derek Bentley's family began a campaign to clear his name.
His sister, Iris, claimed her brother had learning difficulties and had a mental age of an 11-year-old and was also an epileptic, unable to read or write.

For years she kept his case in the public eye, writing letters to politicians, giving interviews and talks and writing a book.

In 1991 a film Let Him Have It was made of Bentley's story highlighting the injustice of the case.

Eventually, in 1993 the then Home Secretary Michael Howard granted Bentley a partial pardon, saying it was clear he should never have been hanged but he remained guilty of taking part in the murder.

In 1998 the Appeal Court quashed Bentley's conviction on the grounds the original trial judge was biased against the defendants and misdirected the jury on points of law.

Scientific evidence also showed the three police officers who testified about Bentley shouting "Let him have it" had lied under oath.


Iris Bentley died in 1997 before the case was referred back to the Appeal Court.

Craig served 10 years before being released.
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Post  Sabot Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:09 pm


That was a deeply distressing case, LL. It seemed obvious to me at the time that Bentley meant for Craig to give the gun to the policeman, but which ever way one chooses to interpret the remark, there would always be an element of doubt.
You see, Doubt rears it head again, and you just can't kill a man on a doubt. Especially when the perpetrator gets 10 years due to youth. It caused outrage, and was the beginning of the end. Well that and Timothy Evans.
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:11 pm

I watched Let him have it - it was awful to see the whole story, LL.

Evans, from Wiki:

Christie strangled at least eight women (including the baby Geraldine Evans), the first two victims being buried in the back garden of the house during World War II. After Evans moved into the building with his wife Beryl and infant daughter Geraldine in 1949, Christie convinced his new tenants that he could help Beryl terminate her unwanted pregnancy; he then raped and strangled Beryl. He told Evans that she had died accidentally, and that Evans should leave town until the investigation died down. Evans entrusted Christie with his daughter, whom Christie then murdered as well. Police neglected to search the property thoroughly, they missed the bones of the earlier victims visible in the garden. As a result of false confessions, Evans was tried for their murders (specifically, his daughter), and executed in 1950. Christie went on to murder his own wife and three prostitutes at the house before his crimes were detected. He was hanged in 1953

Evans was pardoned in the sixties, but that didn't really help him, did it?
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Post  lily Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:21 pm

Evans was pardoned in the sixties, but that didn't really help him, did it?

That's the point, isn't it? Life is cheap to some. mad
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:28 pm

Another possible mistaken verdict was that of Dr. Crippen. It was well known that his wife, a blowsy, drunken, abusive tart, was also prone to taking drugs. There is a theory, which seems quite feasible, that in fact she died of an overdose of drugs and drink; he, being a doctor knew that he would probably be accused of supplying her with the drugs and also because of his affair with Ethel le Neve. It was also suggested she actually killed herself knowing he would be blamed to revenge herself on him and his mistress. When he found her dead, he panicked, buried her in the cellar and beat it for the USA. It was never proved, actually, that the body in the cellar was her; it was assumed so as she had vanished and he had done a runner. Ethel, who was accused at the time, but never tried, kept the truth of what happened (if she knew it) and died without saying anything about it, as I remember. LL
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:16 pm

honestbroker wrote:
Lamplighter wrote:Another possible mistaken verdict was that of Dr. Crippen. It was well known that his wife, a blowsy, drunken, abusive tart, was also prone to taking drugs. There is a theory, which seems quite feasible, that in fact she died of an overdose of drugs and drink; he, being a doctor knew that he would probably be accused of supplying her with the drugs and also because of his affair with Ethel le Neve. It was also suggested she actually killed herself knowing he would be blamed to revenge herself on him and his mistress. When he found her dead, he panicked, buried her in the cellar and beat it for the USA. It was never proved, actually, that the body in the cellar was her; it was assumed so as she had vanished and he had done a runner. Ethel, who was accused at the time, but never tried, kept the truth of what happened (if she knew it) and died without saying anything about it, as I remember. LL

You are not up to date with the latest, LL.

DNA tests have proved that the woman whose remains were found were not his wife's:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347642/CSI-proves-Dr-Crippen-innocent-DNA-tests-reveal-remains-cellar-wife.html
No, I am not behind over this claim; I was going by the British views of the case, not any from elsewhere. It is a case almost as famous as Jack the Ripper; when will CSI tell us who did those murders, please? LL
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:27 pm

Mr Foran added: ‘All we can say scientifically is, the tissue did not come from Cora.
‘One possibility is that Crippen murdered someone else and those were the remains discovered. Another possibility is that the celebrated investigators planted the evidence.’



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347642/CSI-proves-Dr-Crippen-innocent-DNA-tests-reveal-remains-cellar-wife.html#ixzz1YiObj4ok

So, who was in the cellar? And what happened to his wife? I have no particular views on his guilt or innocence, it just seems bizarre...
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:34 pm

I saw in the comments on that piece, a suggestion that it was Mrs Crippen's gentleman friend who was in the cellar.
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Post  Sabot Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:39 pm

I read somewhere that she was seen in America many years after Crippen was hanged.
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:39 pm

bb1 wrote:Mr Foran added: ‘All we can say scientifically is, the tissue did not come from Cora.
‘One possibility is that Crippen murdered someone else and those were the remains discovered. Another possibility is that the celebrated investigators planted the evidence.’



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347642/CSI-proves-Dr-Crippen-innocent-DNA-tests-reveal-remains-cellar-wife.html#ixzz1YiObj4ok

So, who was in the cellar? And what happened to his wife? I have no particular views on his guilt or innocence, it just seems bizarre...
Who knows, bonny? It is a long time ago, all the participators are long dead. It's like many other cases, open to interpretation - was Jack the Ripper a mad Jew or a respected American doctor; a policeman or a midwife; a Royal Prince or an escapee from Bedlam? Did Lord Lucan kill the nanny? Who killed Lord Erroll in Happy Valley, Kenya (White Mischief)?

Bonny, I may have just found what I think is the Que Cherrett avatar - see the attached article re the Happy Valley murder - isn't that the woman? LL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1268376/The-White-Mischief-Murderess-70-year-long-mystery-murder-debauched-Happy-Valley-set-finally-solved.html
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:40 pm

And Ethel returned to the UK, married and lived to a ripe old age:

http://www.trivia-library.com/b/life-after-trial-the-crippen-murder-and-ethel-le-neve-part-2.htm
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:45 pm

What a strange woman Alice de Janze must have been. So, having already tried to kill one lover and herself, she succeeded in both the next time?
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:49 pm

bb1 wrote:What a strange woman Alice de Janze must have been. So, having already tried to kill one lover and herself, she succeeded in both the next time?
The Happy Valley lot were weird as hell. Have you seen 'White Mischief'? Starred Charles Dance as Lord Errol. That is the avatar, isn't it? Replaced the one of Constance Kent? LL
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:52 pm

Yes, it is, LL; I never 'get' these obscure references.....
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Post  Lamplighter Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:05 pm

bb1 wrote:Yes, it is, LL; I never 'get' these obscure references.....
He/she likes lady killers. What ever the reference it would appear to be possibly something very obscure - both Constance Kent and Alice de Janz were blonde - as Kate McCann is? LL
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