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Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Lamplighter on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:38 am

Concerns had been raised about the fire risk of cladding as far back as 2000 in a parliamentary report.

The Environment, Transport and Regional Affairs Committee launched an inquiry after a blaze tore through a 14-storey block of flats in Irvine, Ayrshire, in June 1999, killing an elderly man.

It concluded that cladding should be non-combustible or not pose an unacceptable level of risk to tenants.
And guess who was PM then? Yep, Tony Blair. LL

Full article here - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/817651/london-fire-grenfell-tower-block-cladding-latest-updates-european-union-regulations
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 am

Corbyn and co seem to think that the entire British public are as stupid as those adoring sheep at Glastonbury, LL.

I have a strange feeling that may turn out to be the zenith of his career, thanks to his obscene exploitation of Grenfell.

Has he said anything yet about Labour-controlled Camden tower blocks? Or ones his own constituency which have had to be evacuated?

Oh wait, I know, that's different.....

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Sabot on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:35 am


Corbyn just doesn't talk about that sort of thing, Bonny. He pretends it isn't happening. But the Brits aren't stupid. Or are they?

Christ, imagine if he had won the last election. It doesn't bear thinking of.
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:46 am

No, Brits aren't stupid, which is why Corbyn lost by nearly sixty seats.

He's targetting the youth vote on purpose, because they are far easier to impress with empty rhetoric about Free Stuff and Jam Tomorrow. From Hitler to Mao, every dictator has targetted foolish youth...

Also, they didn't live through the chaos of the 70s, or the horrors perpetrated by Corbyn's IRA chums.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Sabot on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 am


I know, Bonny. I don't understand why they get the vote so young. Who brought that one in?
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:03 am

Here, it was the SNP that gave 16 year olds the vote in certain elections - if you think 18's bad, wait till you see a 16 year old's view of politics. Rolling Eyes


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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Sabot on Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:22 am


At 16 I didn't even know what Politics was, and did as my father told me to. He was Staunch Labour. He never quite forgave me for voting Tory when I finally made up my own mind, and got a vote.
But then my Dad thought that all Service Families were living a life of luxury at the expense of The Tax Payer.
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:56 am

https://order-order.com/2017/06/26/mcdonnell-grenfell-victims-were-murdered/#disqus_thread

Quote:


So does McDonnell think the many, many Labour councils who also approved unsafe cladding are attempted murderers?

Precisely. Labour = hypocrite.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:25 am

Comment:

https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2224260/huge-fire-at-grenfell-tower-in-london/p221

Apparently it may have been 2005 legislation under Labour that took away the role of the Fire Brigade to assess fire risks and allowed this independent fire assessor market to spring up."

I think I talked about this earlier but it's worth spending time on since it's a subtle but important issue. Before 2005, the fire safety of non-domestic dwellings was set out in Acts of Parliament with specific, legally-binding, requirements. One of these was that a building owner had to hire the enforcement authority - the fire services - to undertake a fire risk assessment of his/her building.

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 changed this. The major change is that the Fire Safety Order is in keeping with modern legislation which makes it in effect almost voluntary. The actual law behind it is very simple and rather vague: your building has to be fire-safe. How you make it fire-safe is up to you. There is plenty of guidance (11 big brochures on the DCLG site) on what you probably should to. But this guidance is not law. Legally, you don't have to follow it. The law only comes into play if the fire services suspect your building is unsafe. Then, they have the burden of proof: they have to take you to court and prove you didn't make the building safe. They will quote the standards recommended in DCLG's guidance but there is no guarantee the court will agree. Besides, as seems rather obvious, how are the fire services going to suspect your building in the first place? Well, probably after there's been a fire . . .

Under the 2005 order, it's up to the building owner to undertake a fire risk assessment. He can do it himself if he wants. Or he can hire someone. There are many ex-fire service people out there now running fire risk assessment services. However, the question is how up to date are they? And how resistant to corruption? A serving fire officer under the old law was being paid by his service and would have no desire to risk his reputation. But under the new law, who knows?



Labour's pawprints are all over this catastrophe; it was sheer chance that it happened in a Tory-run area.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:00 pm

A five-year-old boy choked to death in the smoke-filled staircase of Grenfell Tower after letting go of the hand of a neighbour who was trying to lead him to safety.
The body of five-year-old Isaac Paulos, who lived with his family on the 18th floor of the tower, was found in the lobby of 13th floor, Westminster Coroner's Court was told as the first inquests into the victims of the blaze were opened today.
Harrowing evidence described how an artist and her mother were found dead many floors below their flat, and the body of another victim was discovered in the shadow of the burning building.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4640402/Harrowing-evidence-Grenfell-Tower-inquests-begin.html#ixzz4l8lpUcHO
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Those poor souls - they were trying to get out. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:50 pm

norman smith‏Verified account @BBCNormanS 4h4 hours ago
More
Hundreds of fire doors missing from Camden Tower blocks says Sajid Javid #grenfelltower

norman smith‏Verified account @BBCNormanS 4h4 hours ago
More
More than 1000 fire doors missing from five evacuated Camden tower blocks #grenfelltower

norman smith‏Verified account @BBCNormanS 4h4 hours ago
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There has been "a massive failure of fire safety" in Camden - Sajid Javid #grenfelltower

norman smith‏Verified account @BBCNormanS 4h4 hours ago
More
No other council - apart from Camden - has evacuated residents from tower blocks - Sajid Javid #grenfelltower


That would be Labour-run Camden? Where the HELL are the fire doors? Were they ever installed? They can't all have been pinched - why did no-one from Camden Council notice?

Waiting to hear what Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot have to say about this absolutely appalling dereliction of duty by Labour-run Camden Council.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:24 pm

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hundreds-of-fire-doors-were-missing-from-tower-blocks-evacuated-in-camden-a3573551.html

He told MPs: "When the commissioners went into those tower blocks in Camden, in their own words, they found multiple fire safety inspection failures, failures which frankly should not have happened in tower blocks of any type, certainly those tower blocks in Camden.

"For example there were problems with gas pipe insulation, there were stairways that were not accessible, there were breaches of internal walls and most astonishingly there were hundreds, literally hundreds, of fire doors missing.

"The estimate by Camden Council itself is they need at least 1,000 fire doors because they were missing from those five blocks.


Well, I don't think it was the Evil Tories that were making holes in internal walls...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xfiredoor.TRS0&_nkw=firedoor&_sacat=0

Fire doors for sale, cheap, on e-bay.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:25 pm

Labour's Karen Buck, of Westminster North, asked Mr Javid if he has the legal powers to require leaseholders to install fire doors.

Mr Javid replied: "Is it often the case, not exclusively, that many leaseholders have removed fire doors and clearly that's not acceptable.

"I believe all legal powers are there and certainly one of the lessons from this tragedy, and certainly what we've seen in Camden so far, is to make sure we take a much greater interest in enforcement."

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Sabot on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:32 pm


So blame The Leaseholders then. What a crock of shite.
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:43 pm

Assuming the fire doors were there to begin with, no-one else except the residents could have removed them. Remember, in 2005, the then-Labour government changed the rules so the Fire Brigade no longer had the final say on safety, so it's quite possible they didn't know the doors were gone.

It certainly couldn't have been anyone except the residents who were making holes in internal walls.

And if council officials knew, they were probably too scared to say anything in case it was racist, or discriminatory, or something. Or they just didn't care, anything for a quiet life.

Camden is, frankly, a clusterf*ck, and it's a miracle no-one was killed in those blocks.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:52 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/government-fire-investigators-reported-cladding-risks-in-2016-10928193

he Government was told last year by its own fire investigators that tower blocks were covered in flammable material - but were also told building regulations were "adequate".

The advice was given by the same fire risk experts who are currently testing the cladding on 600 tower blocks - and so far failing every one of them.

The reports were sent to the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) in April 2016 by BRE Global, formerly the Government's Building Research Establishment, which went on to reassure ministers that building controls, which BRE has influenced since 1948, were "adequate".

The documents seen by Sky News show that in last year's study of tower block fire safety it concluded: "With the exception of one or two unfortunate cases, there is currently no evidence from BRE Global's fire investigations for DCLG to suggest that current building regulation recommendations, to limit vertical fire spread up the exterior of high rise buildings, are failing in their purpose."

The documents go on to warn of "an increase in the volume of potential combustible materials being applied. A number of significant fires… have demonstrated the potential risks".

BRE is now being paid to test cladding being removed from high rise buildings across the country in response to the Grenfell Tower disaster, in which 79 people are thought to have died after fire spread rapidly up cladding containing combustible insulation and plastic panels.

BRE has been paid by DCLG since at least 2007 to "investigate issues that may have implications for building regulations".

Last week, DCLG said councils and housing associations must "immediately" take action if they have tower blocks with flammable polyethelyne (PE) panelling like that used on Grenfell Tower, which is "unlikely to be compliant with the requirements of the current Building Regulations".

Seventy-five tower blocks have since been identified with unsafe cladding and panelling is being removed from buildings across the country. One, Park Heights in Stockwell, was built last year and won a prestigious design award from The Royal Institute of British Architects.

Sam Webb, a fire safety expert and retired architect who sits on the all-party Parliamentary Fire Safety & Rescue Group, told Sky News the use of flammable materials on tower blocks is "the biggest failure in the construction industry in British history".
...etc

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:36 am


Grenfell cladding scandal spreads to GERMANY: City evacuates 11-storey building with insulation similar to that used in fire disaster tower
High-rise block thought to have the same type of cladding involved in London tragedy
The insulation is being removed, and around 80 people have been moved out
Officials have confirmed the building was evacuated for safety reasons
People will be able to return to their homes once the cladding is removed



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4644380/Grenfell-cladding-scandal-spreads-GERMANY.html#ixzz4lHgltYPc
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Is Corbyn going to blame Evil Tories for that, too?

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Sabot on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:05 am


He should arrange a visit to a Beer Kellar. That would be fun.
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:38 pm

Don't give him ideas, Sabot, he's already showing dictatorial tendencies. I wish he would just STFU, this omnishambles crosses party lines.

Look at this:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/27/grenfell-tower-gas-pipes-left-exposed-despite-fire-safety-experts-orders



Exposed gas pipes serving flats in Grenfell Tower.

Dozens of exposed gas pipes in Grenfell Tower that caused residents to fear for their safety were left bare despite a council safety expert ordering them to be protected by fire-retardant boxing.

The National Grid agreed to protect the pipes serving individual flats, which had been installed over the winter, but had only added a third of the boxing by the time the deadly blaze killed at least 79 people.

In March, three months before the blaze, residents told the London fire brigade (LFB) that people living in the 24-storey tower were so scared by the pipes “that they are having a panic attack”.


Never mind fires, it would be the work of seconds for some malicious little sh*t to vandalise those. And as for this....



Boiler and gas piping in the tower.

Who the HELL installed that spider's web? Anyone who's even had a new boiler put in in the UK knows how strict gas supply regulations are. Who were the company employing, alcoholic Ukrainians?

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:40 pm

The works were originally undertaken by the National Grid’s gas distribution arm following a leak. In March, the firm was sold to investors, including the Qatari government, and renamed Cadent Gas.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/london-council-that-evacuated-building-knew-of-fire-door-problem-five-years-ago?CMP=twt_gu

A London council that mounted an emergency evacuation of hundreds of people from their tower block homes last weekend partly because fire doors were not working was warned about the problem five years ago.


Hundreds evacuated from London tower blocks over fears of Grenfell repeat
Read more
Fire safety experts told Camden council in 2012 that apartment doors in Taplow, a 23-storey tower on the Chalcots estate in Swiss Cottage, were not sufficiently fire resistant and should be replaced. Last weekend the building was evacuated after the London fire brigade raised multiple fire safety concerns including that “fire doors in the building are not working as they should, meaning that in the event of a fire it could spread to other parts of the building”.

The 2012 fire risk assessment, seen by the Guardian, concluded the doors would not provide residents with 30 minutes fire separation and recommended “all apartment doors are replaced”.
...etc.

Corbyn can't blame Theresa May for that - it's a Labour council.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Lamplighter on Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:42 pm

'Fake Grenfell victim' held on suspicion of fraud.

A 52-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of fraudulently claiming to have lost family members in the Grenfell Tower disaster.

The man is alleged to have attempted to gain money and housing by pretending relatives had died in the blaze.

It is alleged he came forward in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy and family liaison officers were assigned to him after he claimed he had lost his wife and son in the blaze.

Scotland Yard said he attempted to claim financial support after stating he had lost all his property.

Police launched an investigation after there were inconsistencies in the man's stories.

They also spoke to residents of the flat within Grenfell Tower where he claimed to live who confirmed he did not live at the address.

Further inquiries revealed the man lived 20 miles away in Bromley, southeast London, and did not have a wife or child.

Metropolitan Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack, said: "The distress and suffering caused to so many families and loved ones that night is harrowing.

"I have made it clear that we are not interested in investigating things such as sub-letting or immigration matters as I want their help and do not want there to be any hidden victims of this tragedy.

"However, we will robustly investigate any information about anyone who seeks to capitalise on the suffering of so many."

Police arrested the man on Wednesday on suspicion of fraud and he is in custody at a west London police station.

Relatives of the person who did live at the address have been told about the investigation.
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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:17 pm

Scumbag deserves hard labour. mad

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  bb1 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:16 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/30/firm-that-refurbished-grenfell-tower-takes-legal-action-against-council

The London Borough of Camden evacuated hundreds of families from four towers on the Chalcots estate last weekend after it emerged that they were clad in flammable aluminium polyethylene-filled sheeting under a £150m PFI contract with Rydon. Fire brigade inspectors also raised concerns about a lack of fire doors and insulation around gas pipes.

The council leader, Georgia Gould, complained publicly that the cladding fitted under the contract with Rydon was not to the standard commissioned by the council and said: “We thought we were dealing with reputable companies and we feel let down.” She warned Rydon the council was taking urgent legal advice and said the cladding “did not satisfy our independent laboratory testing or the high standards we set for contractors”.



Rydon, however, strongly denies that the cladding was not up to the agreed standard and said it had been certified as compliant with building regulations by Camden’s building control department. It has demanded a retraction from Gould over what it claims is damage to its business reputation.

Its chief executive, Robert Bond, is understood to have told Gould in a letter that her “inflammatory statements are highly damaging to our reputation and our business and will be defended by us in the strongest terms possible”.

He concluded: “Given the seriousness of these allegations, I have no choice but to refer this matter to our legal advisers and to seek recourse from the council for the damage inflicted on this business.”

It was sent on Friday 23 June, hours before Camden ordered the night time evacuation of hundreds of families from the towers, which saw at least 100 people staying in the Swiss Cottage leisure centre overnight.
..etc


Good times ahead - for lawyers.

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Re: Fire engulfs Grenfell tower block in west London

Post  Lamplighter on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:52 pm

London fire: May's office rebukes council for ending meeting

LONDON (AP) — The British prime minister's office rebuked a local government council Friday for shutting down a meeting on the fatal high-rise fire in west London because journalists were present. Theresa May's Downing Street office criticized the Kensington and Chelsea Council's decision to abort the first meeting of its Cabinet since the Grenfell Tower tragedy, citing a ruling from Britain's High Court.

"The High Court ruled that the meeting should be open and we would have expected the council to respect that," the prime minister's office said in a statement. The council, which owns Grenfell Tower, also faced criticism Friday after reports that it used more flammable materials in renovating the building to save money.

A report Friday in the Times of London cited documents showing that the council chose aluminum composite panels for the renovation project rather than a non-combustible zinc alternative. The decision saved the council around 300,000 pounds ($390,000), the Times said.

The panels are part of the exterior cladding blamed by many experts for allowing the fire to rapidly spread throughout the building, trapping many residents in their homes before firefighters could reach them. At least 80 people died.

The Times report came after council leader Nicholas Paget-Brown on Thursday abruptly ended the first Cabinet meeting since the June 14 disaster. Paget-Brown initially sought to bar the media from the meeting, then scrapped the session after media organizations won an injunction allowing reporters to be present.

Paget-Brown said that the presence of the media would "prejudice" a public inquiry into the disaster planned by the central government. Opposition Labour Party Councilor Robert Atkinson, whose ward includes Grenfell Tower, challenged Paget-Brown loudly, yelling: "An absolute fiasco, this is why I am calling for your resignation."

Before the meeting was closed, Paget-Brown acknowledged that things had gone wrong in dealing with the aftermath of the fire. "I realize the council has come in for much criticism for its response," he said. "I will acknowledge this and apologize for what we could have done better."

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