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Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

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Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:01 am

Yes, the ghouls and haters are in ecstasies over this:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120824/METRO01/208240420#ixzz24a3uvyi9

August 24, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Canine expert can testify on cadaver scent in Bianca Jones case, judge rules

By Christine Ferretti
The Detroit News
3 Comments
Detroit — A canine expert whose dog allegedly detected a cadaver scent in the home of a missing toddler will be allowed to testify at the murder trial of the girl's father, a judge ruled Friday.

Wayne County Circuit Judge Vonda R. Evans made the ruling after attorneys for D'Andre Lane spent more than two hours trying to discredit the relatively new scientific method. Lane is charged with first-degree murder and child abuse in the death of his 2-year-old daughter, Bianca Jones

"I believe the evidence offered is sufficient to go forward. The people should be allowed to demonstrate to a jury that your client was implicated in this particular murder," Evans told the defense. "I think your argument is to weight as opposed to admissibility."

The court Friday also denied a defense motion to halt proceedings in the case while the state Court of Appeals evaluates efforts by Lane's attorneys to have the case tossed out. The attorneys said they also plan to appeal Friday's ruling.

Two forensic canine experts testified Friday before Evans ruled to admit at trial the potential evidence, which is key for prosecutors in the case against Lane.

Danian Woodson, an attorney for Lane, tried to argue against the cadaver dog evidence. But Evans cut her off and denied the motion.

After the hearing, Woodson said the alleged evidence is "not admissible, not relevant, highly prejudicial and should be excluded."

Lane has claimed Bianca was in the back seat of his 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis on the morning of Dec. 2 when he was approached by armed carjackers near Brush Street and Grand River.

The vehicle was found shortly after, but the child was not inside. Her body has not been found.

Forensic canine expert Martin Grime testified Friday and at Lane's prior preliminary examination that he brought in his victim recovery dog, Morse, two days after the girl went missing. He said the dog detected a cadaver scent inside Lane's car, on the child's blanket and car seat, and in the girl's bedroom and Lane's home.

Grime said the dogs detect only the generic scent of human decomposition. The dogs, he said, cannot determine identity, age, race, gender or the rate of decomposition.

Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response, and that testing done just prior and after the dog worked in the Jones case was successful.

"I believe that the testimony, his conclusion is based on principles and methods that have been in place for several years," Evans said of Grime.

Also Friday, Rex A. Stockham, a special agent for the FBI who oversees its forensic canine program, said the agency has been studying the science for about a decade.

The FBI began testing contract and volunteer teams for the human scent detection program in 2008, Stockham said. The agency has three full-time dogs working in the country.

The dogs are tested annually to ensure they meet best practices standards. Morse has only been tested one time, Stockham said.

Prosecutors allege Lane beat the toddler to death with an 18-inch stick with a towel wrapped in duct tape at the end over a potty training incident.

Lane's attorney, Terry Johnson, contends Lane did "spank" the child with the stick, but that there was no evidence of child abuse or murder since the girl's whereabouts is unknown.

Lane told Detroit Police he left his home around 7:45 a.m. Dec. 2. He dropped his nephew and 8-year-old daughter off before visiting a gas station, Wayne County Community College in Detroit and, with a friend, near the Greyhound bus station on Howard Street. The carjacking, Lane claimed, occurred just afterward, with only him and Bianca in the vehicle.

FBI agent Christopher Hess testified at Lane's preliminary examination that the defendant was unable to explain where he was for a 45-minute window around the time his daughter disappeared.

Lane's girlfriend, Anjali Lyons, has testified she awoke Dec. 2 to Bianca's screams as Lane used the stick to beat the toddler for urinating in bed. Later the same morning, Lane carried a silent Bianca to his car. She was covered with an animal print blanket.

Lane's trial is slated for Sept. 18.

=================

If the haters and ghouls can't see why the legal career of Wayne County Circuit Judge Vonda R. Evans is liable to come skidding to a halt over this, well, I ain't going to tell them.

But will the ghouls still be high-fiving each other when this is declared a mistrial, or the whole thing thrown out of court thanks to the Grime roadshow?


Last edited by bb1 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:56 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:11 am

--- .. ..--. ‏@w_nicht
Canine expert can testify on cadaver scent in Bianca Jones case, judge rules http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120824/METRO01/208240420 In #mccann case too, one day?


.....And just watch and wonder as the defence team tear him a new one over the latest Death Miasma theories.

One of these days, a killer is going to walk free because of this pseudo-science nonsense; let's hope this isn't this time.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:23 am


The day any person is convicted on the alert of a dog alone will be a very sad day

Morse is a Victim Recovery Dog. Even Grime doesn't call him a Cadaver Dog.

Grime said the dogs detect only the generic scent of human decomposition. He simply cannot say this, unless he adds, "Decomposing Body Fluids from Live People."
Someone is going to come seriously unstuck on this one. The Defence Attorney isn't stupid, and he will know all about the previous kerfuffle. I expect even he will know how to use Google.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:24 am

Dr David Payne ‏@DodgyDrPayne
@SafariSara How come the FBI are setting great score by cadaver dogs? How come Bianca Jones case centres on their findings? #mccann BALLS


If it does indeed 'centre on their findings', then the alleged killer is home free. Will they still be as proud of themselves then?

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:29 am


There will be a Massive Appeal over this if they aren't very careful. Unless The Defence discredit The Dogs during The Trial.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:30 am

Look at this, Sabot:

http://www.freep.com/article/20120418/NEWS02/204180363/Bianca-Jones-At-hearing-on-murder-abuse-charges-tot-s-sister-says-dad-hit-her

Bianca Jones: At hearing on murder, abuse charges, tot's sister says dad hit her

The 8-year-old sister of Bianca Jones testified Tuesday that her father, D'Andre Lane, hit her after she wet the bed and then stuffed the panties she had on into her mouth as part of her punishment.

"It was the time I thought I was on the toilet, but I was in the bed," the 8-year-old said about the incident. "He was holding them (the panties) in my face, then put them underneath my tongue and it hurt."

The testimony came after the girl told the court about what she said happened at Lane's house the morning of Dec. 2, the day 2-year-old Bianca disappeared.

"I didn't see Bebe," the girl said, referring to Bianca. The girl said she put on her school clothes, washed her face and waited in the living room for Lane.

As the girl got into the car, she said, Lane picked up the car seat carrying Bianca, but "the cover (her blanket) was over her."

The girl, who briefly waved to her father in court, testified that Bianca never tried to remove the cover from her face and that she was not making a sound. When Bianca slept, the girl said, "she usually snores."

Lane, 32, who was charged last month with first-degree felony murder and first-degree child abuse in connection with Bianca's disappearance, was in 36th District Court in Detroit for a preliminary examination Tuesday before Judge Ruth Carter. He faces life in prison without parole if convicted of the murder charge.

Although prosecutors contend Bianca was subjected to abuse from her father on the day she disappeared, Lane repeatedly has denied involvement in the toddler's disappearance.

Lane told police two men carjacked him at gunpoint and took off in his 2002 Mercury Grand Marquis with Bianca strapped in her car seat in the back on the morning of Dec. 2. Police found Lane's car running several blocks away from what he said was the carjacking site, but Bianca was not in the car. Prosecutors have presumed that she is dead.

Martin Grime, a forensic canine expert, testified that he traveled from England and arrived Dec. 4 in Detroit with two English springer spaniels: Morse, who specializes in victim recovery, and Keela, who detects human blood.

Grime said Morse detected a human decomposition odor in a room where Bianca slept at Lane's house as well as on her blanket and car seat found in Lane's car.

"The dog's final response is vocal," Grime said. "He barks, and as the dog searches, their behavior changes and they become more intense."

Morse searched inside and outside Lane's house in the 19300 block of Mitchell on Detroit's east side, Grime said. "There was an immediate change of behavior."

Grime said Morse was able to pick out Lane's car, which was parked among 31 others in a lot. The other cars in the lot did not get a response from the dog.

Grime said his dogs did not detect a decomposition odor on the clothing Lane was wearing the day he was taken into custody, which was the same day Bianca disappeared. He also said that a body starts decomposing immediately after breathing stops.

Testimony in the preliminary examination is expected to resume April 27.


===========

HE'S RECYCLED HIS PDL SCRIPT.

I sincerely hope the prosecution has more evidence than this, or the alleged killer is going to walk.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Lamplighter on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:41 am

He also said that a body starts decomposing immediately after breathing stops.

It does? well, that's a new one. Surely rigor mortis comes before decomposition? Correct me if I am wrong - pathology was never a strong point. LL
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:46 am


So it does, sound like The PdL Script. The Prosecution must be desperate if they are relying on Dog Alerts.
This is going to cause a stink in The Appeal Court if he gets convicted.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:48 am

Lamplighter wrote:
He also said that a body starts decomposing immediately after breathing stops.

It does? well, that's a new one. Surely rigor mortis comes before decomposition? Correct me if I am wrong - pathology was never a strong point. LL

It probably does start immediately, LL. But no Cadaver Odour for approximately 90 minutes, so Grime is obfuscating. This is not good in a Murder Trial.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:51 am

There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer to that, LL.

According to the forkers and wonderwoof fans, it starts immediately and is also transferred to everything.

Which is clearly nonsense, as was shown by the business with poor Tia Sharp.

The McCann-haters seem to have the bizarre idea that Grime is going to get into the witness box, say his spiel about Death Miasma, the prosecution, judge and jury are going to be instantly swayed by his wise words, and send the accused straight to Death Row.

Meanwhile, back in the real world....Grime may well come out with his spiel. It is then going to ripped to shreds by the defence lawyers.

I just hope Grime doesn't cause so much of a foul-up, an alleged child killer goes free.

The dog cult are also in for a rude awakening if they think that decisions made by

Wayne County Circuit Judge Vonda R. Evans

can't be overturned.

This is real, not some pathetic cyber-court of public opinion.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:55 am

Grime is obfuscating. This is not good in a Murder Trial.

Quite, Sabot. I don't think it's dawned on his fan club that every single word he says is going to be torn apart by a team of US defence attorneys.

If we can see gaping holes in just the newspaper reports, what are experts going to do to him?

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:58 am


I think that Judge Vonda R. Evans has just handed The Defence a massive great gift.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Lamplighter on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:01 pm

Thanks bonny. From what I recall when I was studying, there is internal decomposition first, which means no smell unless there had been defecation at death. The actual external decomposition starts some time later .... as I said, his was never my strong point. But, yes, that sounds exactly like PdL part deux. LL vomit
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:04 pm

bb1 wrote: Grime is obfuscating. This is not good in a Murder Trial.

Quite, Sabot. I don't think it's dawned on his fan club that every single word he says is going to be torn apart by a team of US defence attorneys.

If we can see gaping holes in just the newspaper reports, what are experts going to do to him?

His statement could be something to do with the time between Death and Cadaver Scent, and depositing a body somewhere else that has been dead for more than 90 minutes. The latter could quite likely leave a Cadaver Scent almost immediately.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:12 pm

Sabot wrote:
I think that Judge Vonda R. Evans has just handed The Defence a massive great gift.

So do I, Sabot. In many ways, I hope Grime's testimony IS allowed, it's time a legal spotlight was shone on this Death Miasma psuedo-science.

I won't be surprised if Judge Vonda's ruling is overturned, though, and she's back to issuing fines for careless parking.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:17 pm

Oh, FFS! She's one of those TV judges, no wonder she's allowed it!

http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/detroit/index.ssf/2011/04/michigan_film_office_approves.html



"Domestic Justice": Domestic Justice is the explosive new judicial reality show featuring everyday people embroiled in domestic issues affecting their lives – but familiar to us all. Raw domestic issues will be exposed and Domestic Justice will be served each episode in a lively, entertaining, courtroom-feel setting. Each episode targets emotionally charged domestic disputes ranging from but not limited to child visitation and parenting time, bullying, character assassination, and much more. The litigants will chronologically explain their controversy. Judge Evans will then inform each party of the harmful effects of their conduct and will offer constructive solutions to their domestic disputes. When and where appropriate, counseling approaches to help seek a resolution will be integrated.

If the show is picked up for syndication, Evans will join the aforementioned Greg Mathis as Detroit-bred judges on TV. And, considering the dire state of daytime television, another judge show on the airwaves isn't so far-fetched.


--------------------------

Unbelievable! I am sure the defence attorneys will have no trouble pointing out that Her Honour is another ratings hound.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:18 pm

http://twitter.com/JudgeVonda

vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
When I thought I saw it All! God shows up and shows out! He keeps doing great things 4 me!
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
2 Aug vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
God continue to let me find. The courage to move in the right direction
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
1 Aug vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
The greatest testimony came from the longest test! God is making room for ur Destiny


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:31 pm


Evans told the defense. "I think your argument is to weight as opposed to admissibility."

This would suggest that Judge Evans doesn't necessary believe that The Dogs carry any weight, and only that it should be admisable, even if only to discredit it.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:36 pm

bb1 wrote:http://twitter.com/JudgeVonda

vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
When I thought I saw it All! God shows up and shows out! He keeps doing great things 4 me!
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
2 Aug vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
God continue to let me find. The courage to move in the right direction
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite
1 Aug vonda evans ‏@JudgeVonda
The greatest testimony came from the longest test! God is making room for ur Destiny


Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Jeesus. That's it then. D'Andre Lane will likely get off.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:39 pm

Ah right, thanks, Sabot, you're better at following US cases than I am.

This is going to be interesting; I would actually like to see Grime's Death Miasma cottage industry put under proper, legal scrutiny.

I know, my heart sank as soon as I discovered that Vonda has a TV spot.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:58 pm

bb1 wrote:Ah right, thanks, Sabot, you're better at following US cases than I am.

This is going to be interesting; I would actually like to see Grime's Death Miasma cottage industry put under proper, legal scrutiny.

I know, my heart sank as soon as I discovered that Vonda has a TV spot.

I did learn quite a lot following The Anthony Case, Bonny. And the Dogs were put precisely where they should be. A tool and nothing more. And this was seen to be done by one Dog Handler herself.
Judge Belvin Perry Junior, love him to bits, did demand Training Schedules and Proof of Success Rates, although I didn't actually see those.
The problem as it seems to me is that Dog Findings as such, are out there in The Public Domain, and discussed at great length, so sometimes best to give them the light of a day in Court.
Actually, their procedure isn't much different from ours. Weight is one thing, and Admissibility is entirely another, just as it would be in Britain, although I think America is inclined to allow more. But there is always The Appeal System if the mark has been overstepped.
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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:21 pm

In many ways, I hope Grime is finally put in the witness box, Sabot, he won't get away with waffling about Death Miasma then.

Indeed, it only takes a defence attorney to stick a coconut in front of him for his testimony to be shown up, not as some kind of 'new science', but just the same old cod-science.

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:31 pm


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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  bb1 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: MARTIN GRIME'S DOGS to give evidence in Detroit murder trial of parents of missing toddler, aged 2, presumed dead
PeterMac Yesterday at 11:23 pm

Oh dear !!


Now they have had a chance to think about it, are they really, really happy for Grime to be cross-examined by US defence attorneys - or are they starting to get a chilly feeling that the Wonderwoof Myth is going to be publically demolished, once and for all?

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Re: Haters in frenzy of dog-worship over US case

Post  Sabot on Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:42 pm

So do I hope Grime is put in The Witness Box, Bonny. That Dog Handler in The Anthony Case made a right fool of herself as she tried to skirt round questions, but she admitted in the end that they will also alert Urine and Toe Nails.
And if Grime says it was definitely Cadaver Odour he is going to have to prove it.
We already know that the child was prone to wetting herself, so how does he know it wasn't that?

And 200 Positives won't wash, I'm afraid. Morse is a Victim Recovery Dog. That means that he can find Body Fluids from Live People. Some Victims in his line of work get found alive. That is the real point of dogs like him.
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