Express, STAR : Madeleine file to be kept secret to save Portugal's blushes

Rose wrote:It takes time, not too much I hope.

What? It has been nearly eight years since Leonor Cipriano was Tortured to gain a Confession, and nearly five years since Amaral was Convicted. And nearly five years since Leandro Silva was eventually allowed to bring a complaint. Just how long is this supposed to take?

In the case of Arguido Almeida, it is now TWELVE YEARS since the alleged torture of Senhor Borges:


The disclosure of the legal action against Almeida further threatens the credibility of the Portuguese police. According to the court papers, dated Oct. 4, Borges was interrogated by Almeida and his colleagues over a theft on March 3, 2000. Following searches at his home at 7 p.m. and locker at work at 7:40 p.m., Borges was taken to the policia judiciaria station in Lisbon. During the questioning, which went on until 2:30 a.m., Borges claims he suffered bruises to his throat, stomach, feet and a gash in his head.
The testimony states: "He was handcuffed behind his back and grabbed by an officer in such a way so he couldn’t double up and was punched various times in the stomach. Then they took off his shoes and with a fence post started beating his feet until the post began to splinter.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301629,00.html#ixzz1zOYHUPd6

As reported by Amnesty, that one has had to start all over again because Virgolino Borges' testimony was 'lost'.

Another very telling section of the FOI document:

Firstly, there would be a specific detriment to the UK’s relationship with Portugal which would impact on the co-operation between these two states regarding the ongoing investigation in to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. This is because the documents contained information provided to the UK in confidence by Portuguese officials and internal discussions between the Home Office and MPS of such information.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the documents from Portugal do NOT say,

Cor, what a top 'tec Goncalol is, his digestive system was right all along! And the Fridge Theory! Stroke of genius!

No, the only documents likely to cause ructions in Portugal if they appeared in public are the ones all about Amaral, his incompetence, the torture cases, his paranoia, the Golden Bullets, Lovely Sofa's complaint about him - and other matters we are unaware of at present.

Documents showing that he should never, ever, have been anywhere near the investigation to begin with - and neither should Almeida of the discredited report.

Dare I ask why UK should care about offending a Foreign State? A State that is under the scrutiny of Amnesty International for repeated Torture of it's own Nationals by it's own Police Force, two of whom have been convicted of involvement. Is this what The World is coming to?
Let's not upset Portugal. They only want Millions to bail them out. What right has UK got to enquire into their Fascist practices? Just give them the money, and then they can go back to solving their Criminal problems by beating any old fool who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I really can't believe that this is happening, but it bloody well is.

It's probably because of the EU, or something, Sabot. The US would have had a drone aimed at Portimao PJ by now if their nationals had been treated like this.

Or they don't want to jeopardize Madeleine's safety?

Though many will try to guess what the nature of the arguments were within SY and HO about the setting up of the review and will try to guess what the confidential information was that the PT authorities have shared with SY, I believe the only things we can take as actual facts from this FOI document are.

1. A newspaper submitted a request for the release of all documents relating to the decision of the HO / SY to review the Madeleine McCann Case.

2. The decision, initially by the Home Secretary and confirmed by the Commisioner was to refuse the release of almost every document.

3. Three reasons were given for refusal
A) The fact that the discussions about the review were, when the refusal was initially made, still ongoing, and release at that time could have affected the decision making. ("safe space").
B) The revelation of the "candid nature" of the language used in the documents could influence future communications within the review team, HO etc. ("chilling effect")
C) The revelation would affect future collaborative work with Portugal and other countries due to the fact that the documents contain confidential information and such information would not be shared in future if it would likely become public knowledge via such a FOI request.

I believe any people attempting to find anything beyond those clear facts in the released FOI document are simply guessing and I would like them to back up their claims with specific facts from that document.

Of course there are other aspects mentioned in the newspapers but my summary here relates only to the FOI document.

One section is, IMO, something more than the usual diplomacy, Greenink:

40. The Home Office argued that it was clearly not in the public interest to
release information that would prejudice the UK’s relations with another
country. This is because such prejudice would undermine the UK’s ability
to work with other countries, in serving the public interest, in matters of
trade, defence, the environment, human rights cases, the fight against
terrorism, international crime, and specifically in terms of this particular
request the safe return of Madeleine McCann.

Civil servants dealing with sensitive matters do not, in my experience, make statements like that lightly. I see no other way of interpreting that, other than that Scotland Yard are looking for a living child.

bb1 wrote:One section is, IMO, something more than the usual diplomacy, Greenink:

40. The Home Office argued that it was clearly not in the public interest to
release information that would prejudice the UK’s relations with another
country. This is because such prejudice would undermine the UK’s ability
to work with other countries, in serving the public interest, in matters of
trade, defence, the environment, human rights cases, the fight against
terrorism, international crime, and specifically in terms of this particular
request the safe return of Madeleine McCann.

Civil servants dealing with sensitive matters do not, in my experience, make statements like that lightly. I see no other way of interpreting that, other than that Scotland Yard are looking for a living child.

Sorry but I don't see that comment about this case as in any way special.
The Commisioner is simply reminding people that the specific request was about this review of Madeleine's case and as such the release of the documents and the confidential information they contain could jeopardise that case and the safe return which the review team is working towards.

Forker:


Just a thought and no more. What if SY have
discovered that certain MPs, police and media
figures have actively perverted the course of
justice? This would have major implications
for the long standing relationship between two
of Europe's oldest allies would it not?

That has to be the most ridiculous piece of non-logic ever. How, pray tell, would that upset Portugal?

Bearing in mind that the Yard give every impression of hoping to find Madeleine McCann alive:

specifically in terms of this particular request the safe return of Madeleine McCann.


why don't they be brave and try to THINK a bit?

Like, Portugal would be really, really upset if the Yard released documents which showed what a shambles the first investigation was?

bb1 wrote:Forker:


Just a thought and no more. What if SY have
discovered that certain MPs, police and media
figures have actively perverted the course of
justice? This would have major implications
for the long standing relationship between two
of Europe's oldest allies would it not?

That has to be the most ridiculous piece of non-logic ever. How, pray tell, would that upset Portugal?

Bearing in mind that the Yard give every impression of hoping to find Madeleine McCann alive:

specifically in terms of this particular request the safe return of Madeleine McCann.


why don't they be brave and try to THINK a bit?

Like, Portugal would be really, really upset if the Yard released documents which showed what a shambles the first investigation was?

Its when they go off onto such idiotic mental rambles as that (based on nothing but their own lurid imaginations) that its clear they have no ability to actually read and take in the document being discussed and no understanding of the need to ground themselves in fact rather than fantasy.

Pound to a penny, none of them have read the whole reply. They've just read the Express and Star's version of it, which while more or less accurate, isn't the whole story - and does have the papers' own slant on it. And their imaginations have done the rest.

Britain's Oldest Allies. Right. That bunch who were busy housing Nazis during the last War, is it? What use are they to anyone, and how will Britain suffer from the loss?
It used to be a good place to go on holiday, but not any more if you have any sense.

I do think that Portugal will be seriously embarrassed if Scotland Yard find Madeleine, but who cares about that?

bb1 wrote:Pound to a penny, none of them have read the whole reply. They've just read the Express and Star's version of it, which while more or less accurate, isn't the whole story - and does have the papers' own slant on it. And their imaginations have done the rest.

They don't understand what is being discussed. To do so they would have to understand the whole Case, and to drop their fantasies. But then I sometimes wonder if I understand. I just want Madeleine to be found and I am not much interested in protocol.
As far as I am concerned, The Portuguese lost the right to Jurisdiction the minute they cocked up the Case, and then closed it, so I definitely do not understand why Britain can't just go for it.

Oh, this is nothing new, Sabot. In what other country could a Spanish prince shoot dead his brother, the heir to the Spanish throne, and well, nothing happen about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante_Alfonso_of_Spain

Sorry, I mean the Infante had an accident with a gun Franco had allegedly given him while cleaning it while his brother (now King of Spain) watched?

Sabot wrote:

bb1 wrote:Pound to a penny, none of them have read the whole reply. They've just read the Express and Star's version of it, which while more or less accurate, isn't the whole story - and does have the papers' own slant on it. And their imaginations have done the rest.

They don't understand what is being discussed. To do so they would have to understand the whole Case, and to drop their fantasies. But then I sometimes wonder if I understand. I just want Madeleine to be found and I am not much interested in protocol.
As far as I am concerned, The Portuguese lost the right to Jurisdiction the minute they cocked up the Case, and then closed it, so I definitely do not understand why Britain can't just go for it.

Because the coppers who were sent in would be arrested. Thats why. I can well understand SY officers saying - sorry, I don't want to end up in a Portuguese nick especially when I told you it would happen in the first place.

Another option, I suppose would be to send a gunboat and invade but I am not sure we have that power any more.

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:

bb1 wrote:Pound to a penny, none of them have read the whole reply. They've just read the Express and Star's version of it, which while more or less accurate, isn't the whole story - and does have the papers' own slant on it. And their imaginations have done the rest.

They don't understand what is being discussed. To do so they would have to understand the whole Case, and to drop their fantasies. But then I sometimes wonder if I understand. I just want Madeleine to be found and I am not much interested in protocol.
As far as I am concerned, The Portuguese lost the right to Jurisdiction the minute they cocked up the Case, and then closed it, so I definitely do not understand why Britain can't just go for it.

Because the coppers who were sent in would be arrested. Thats why. I can well understand SY officers saying - sorry, I don't want to end up in a Portuguese nick especially when I told you it would happen in the first place.

Another option, I suppose would be to send a gunboat and invade but I am not sure we have that power any more.

We don't have the Gun Boats, Darling. I've got a nasty suspicion that Portugal has got all of out old Gun Boats. But a couple of Inflatables should do it. It took Amaral to tell them what Cornwall has known for centuries.

Oh good Lord, what is wrong with these people?

Forker:

Here is a fasinating link to a FOI request
You will need to download it, but very worth
the long read. It may be an idea to devote
a thread just on this item.
http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/fs_50430043.pdf

1. Why on earth would you need to download it to read it? None of us did - Maggs even managed to de-PDF it.

Which is why it has its own thread here so it can be easily read in full.

2. No, it isn't 'a FOI request'. It's THE FOI request, as made by the Star, which is what the stories in the Express and Star are about......

You couldn't make it up - no wonder so many of them appear to be reality-challenged.

Here's another one:


MADELEINE MCCANN FILE KEPT SECRET - Sunday July 1 2012
Gillyspot Today at 7:05 am

I have found the original FOI link but you need to download it to read it.

Have a read of the decision here

http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/fs_50430043.pdf


What on earth are they talking about

How come we can all read it without 'downloading' anything, but none of them can?

For the enlightenment of the hopelessly reality-challenged - LOOK!



There it is! On Bren's blog for everyone to read - no downloading required.

http://regretsandramblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/fs_50430043.pdf

Believe it or not, this is a forker speaking:

If you think about it the only way releasing these files would cause trouble with Portugual would be if the Met police were rubbishing the investigation by the PJ, which in itself is GOOD news, because it shows the Met know where things could have been handled better. Let's hope they are applying it now.

Which is precisely what we have been saying.

Clearly a job for BIG LETTERS:

THE MCCANNS ARE NOT SUSPECTS. THE MET KNOW MADELEINE WAS ABDUCTED AND HOPE TO FIND HER ALIVE.

You realise, of course, that if and when the Yard do find Madeleine, the forkers, ghouls and hounders will go into total meltdown, due to their lives having been ruined by the child's being rescued and reunited with her family?

And that it will take them, oh, at least five minutes, to decide that Madeleine was IN IT too?

So The PJ didn't get it wrong, they just didn't try hard enough to stitch up... sorry, prove The McCanns Guilty. And now it's Scotland Yard who are playing Slowly, Slowly, Tick Tock.

Oh right, that's what it means....many thanks for translating the forkerspeak, Sabot, that one was beyond me

Seriously, how much longer can they go on kidding themselves? What sorry figures they cut when they come out with straw-clutching delusions like that.

They can twist anything, Bonny. They've been doing it for five years now. Their brains have gone AWOL. The only difference now is that they are getting desperate. It can only get worse.