GADDIFI TOPPLED!!!!!TRIPOLI CELEBRATING!!!!!!!!

Reuters:

Rockets push back rebels south of Libyan capital
Fri Jul 1, 2011 10:49am GMT

By Anis Mili

BIR-AYYAD, Libya (Reuters) - Libyan rebels who had advanced to within 80 km (50 miles) of Muammar Gaddafi's stronghold in the capital were forced to retreat on Friday after coming under a barrage of rocket fire from government forces.

The rebels' advance five days ago to the outskirts of the small town of Bir al-Ghanam had raised the possibility of a breakthrough in a four-month old conflict that has become the bloodiest of the "Arab Spring" uprisings.

Rebel fighters who had been massing on a ridge near Bir al-Ghanam and preparing for an attack were now pulling back under fire from Russian-made Grad rockets, said a Reuters photographer in Bir-Ayyad, 30 km to the south.

He said the rocket barrage was now reaching as far back as Bir-Ayyad, a road junction in the foothills of the Western Mountains range south-west of Tripoli from where the rebels had launched their advance last week.

The reverse underlines the resilience of Gaddafi's forces, who have withstood 15 weeks of bombardment by NATO missiles and warplanes, and attempts by rebels on three fronts to break through their lines.

Frustration at the slow progress is growing inside the military alliance, with some members worried about the cost, civilian casualties, and the fact the campaign has now been going on much longer than its backers anticipated.

There are also differences about how proactive NATO members should be in aiding the rebels, who are hampered by a lack of organisation and a shortage of equipment.

France this week became the first member of the anti-Gaddafi alliance to acknowledge that it had supplied weapons to the rebels, saying this was justified to protect civilians under threat from Gaddafi's forces.

It said it used parachutes to drop assault rifles and rocket launchers, along with humanitarian supplies, to rebels in the Western mountains.

That admission prompted Russia, a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, to accuse France of a "gross violation" of a U.N. arms embargo.

Even France's NATO allies distanced themselves from the French operation, though Britain and the United States said they believed it was justified under U.N. rules.

"ALLIANCE WITH THE DEVIL"

Gaddafi has said the NATO campaign is an act of colonial aggression aimed at stealing Libya's plentiful oil. His aides say arrest warrants issued on Monday by the International Criminal Court for him, his son and his brother-in-law have no legitimacy because the court is a tool of the West.

Gaddafi's daughter, Aisha, said in a television interview broadcast late on Thursday that her father's administration was prepared to cut a deal with the rebels if that was what it took to stop the bloodshed.

The offer marks a shift in tone. Until now Libyan officials have dismissed the rebels as criminals and no one in the Libyan leader's inner circle has publicly raised the possibility of making any accommodation with them.

"There are direct and indirect negotiations and we should stop letting Libyan blood," Gaddafi's daughter said in an interview with France 2 television.

"And for that we are ready to ally with the devil and that is the armed rebels," said Aisha Gaddafi, a lawyer who has no official government role but has often acted as a mediator on behalf of her family.

But she dismissed the prospect of her father going into exile. "This word departure, departure, departure ... what I find strange is where do you want him to go? This is his country, his land, his people," she said.

The London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper reported Gaddafi's representatives had been meeting officials from France and Britain on the Tunisian island of Djerba.

Citing unnamed sources from the Gaddafi and opposition camps, the newspaper said Gaddafi was willing to step down if he was spared prosecution and allowed to live in his hometown of Sirte, northern Libya, with guarantees for his security.

There was no confirmation of the report from Gaddafi's government, Britain or France.

OPTIONS NARROWING

Anti-Gaddafi rebels rejected talks with the Libyan leader's administration after the International Criminal Court issued its arrest warrants, saying there was no point talking to a war criminal.

Some Libya-watchers say Gaddafi has floated the possibility of a peace deal several times to stall for time and weaken the resolve of the Western alliance to push him out.

But others say he may be looking for a negotiated exit as his options narrow. International sanctions are causing a shortage of fuel in Gaddafi-controlled areas, and NATO strikes are eroding his ability to enforce his power.

The Libyan conflict has sent ripples far beyond the North African country of six million people.

The fighting has halted Libyan oil exports, helping push up world crude prices to about $111 a barrel.

It has also created a security vacuum which officials in the region say could be exploited by Islamist extremists and al Qaeda's North African wing.

"If this civil war goes on, it would be a new Somalia, which I don't say lightly. In three months we could be dealing with extremists," Marouane Abassi, World Bank country manager for Libya, told Reuters in the Tunisian capital.

Interview with Saif Gaddafi (7/1) – “US looks on Libya as McDonald’s”
Posted on July 1, 2011
Link as this is not on you tube, 25min in length. http://feb17.info/media/video-interview-with-saif-gaddafi-71-us-looks-on-libya-as-mcdonald%E2%80%99s/

USA looks upon Libya as fast food expecting a fast war and a quick victory, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the son of the Libyan leader wanted by the ICC, told RT. But the West will never get what they want, he added.

“Many countries, Iran and North Korea are among them, told us it was our mistake to give up, to have stopped developing long-range missiles and to become friendly with the West. Our example means one should never trust the West and should always be on alert – for them it is fine to change their mind overnight and start bombing Libya,” said Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

“One of our biggest mistakes was that we delayed buying new weapons, especially from Russia, and delayed building a strong army. We thought Europeans were our friends; our mistake was to be tolerant with our enemies”.

Gaddafi’s son was charged by the International Criminal Court on June 27 for a “state policy aimed at deterring by any means, including lethal force, the demonstrations of civilians against the Gaddafi regime” alongside his father Muammar Gaddafi and his military intelligence chief General Abdullah al-Sanoussi. However the Libyan leader’s son sees the charge differently.

“They do not accuse me of policy, they accuse me of killing people, and everybody knows it. For me to be responsible for killing people was a joke. This would have happened anywhere in the world if people in the street moved towards a military site trying to steal ammunition or arms. Of course the military would prevent them!” stated Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

The son of the Libyan leader denied either he or his father had ordered the killing of protesters. “No, nobody ordered to kill them, the guards just fired, that’s it. And they do not need permission to do that.”

“It’s a fake court. Under the table they are trying to negotiate with us a deal. They say if you accept this deal, we will take care of the court. What does that mean? It means this court is controlled by those countries which are attacking us every day! It is just to put psychological and political pressure on us. That’s it. Of course, it won’t work. The court is a joke here in Libya,” concluded the son of the Libyan leader.
Saif al-Islam Gaddafi said the West has only one target – Libya. “The country is a like a piece of cake for them – it is rich, it has gas, oil and money, so they must kill my father to get the cake. What they don’t understand is that the fighting will not stop if my father goes. Libyans will continue fighting until one day the country will be back to the Libyans,”concluded Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

“We told them ‘You want elections? OK – let’s do elections. We will bring observers from Russia, from America, from the African Union, from the European Union, from the United Nations to supervise the elections. And if we win – you should accept the results, if we lose – congratulations.’ They answered ‘no.’,” Saif al-Islam Gaddafi went on. “Our goal is to march to Tripoli. We have to march to Tripoli and occupy Tripoli. By force. So, you want to fight? OK, we will fight. And you will lose. And soon, because you have no chance. You have 40 ships in front of our coast, you have hundreds of airplanes, you have 17 satellites from America and France, you have everything, but you are losing every day. Why? Because the people are not with you.”

“The Libyans are united not just around my father as a leader but they are united around other moral values. They are fighting for their country, for their people. They know that NATO is here and is bombing not because they want to help us, or because it is so nice to us or because it is so generous towards the Libyan people, but because they have their own interest. And the rebels are with NATO not because they are pro-democracy or fighting for freedom. It has nothing to do with this. They have their own interests. They want to share the cake – they want to share this country,” said Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

The son of the Libyan leader acknowledged that the West won the media war at the outset because it planned to say Gaddafi was in Venezuela, the rebels were occupying Tripoli and the regime was gone.

“They seeded big chaos in the whole country. We are still now suffering from that chaos. But now the Libyans are winning. The Security Council issued its resolution against Libya because of fake media reports saying that the Libyan air force is bombing civilian districts in Tripoli and killing – but go there and show me any evidence of such killings. We told everyone – please, send a fact-finding mission to Libya to find out what’s happened. They said no. We are going to bomb you.”
“Nobody will give up and raise a white flag. And the Libyans will not allow them to do that. And the fight will continue,” added Saif al-Islam Gaddafi.

At the end of the interview, Saif al-Islam Gaddafi said it was time for Russia to step in to play a positive role in the escalating conflict and show that it is a superpower.

“Libya is a great opportunity for Russia to become a superpower. It’s similar to what happened in Egypt when the Soviet Union managed to stop the French and the British. It’s exactly what is happening now in Libya. And from then on the Soviet Union became a super power, because at that time it said: you stop aggression against Egypt, or we are going to bomb London and Paris. It’s the same again.”

What on earth is he babbling about?

bb1 wrote:What on earth is he babbling about?

Err, err, err, err, pass! He's a right LL

“Libya is a great opportunity for Russia to become a superpower.

So, we've all just imagined all those nuclear submarines, and warheads - oh, and the Iron Curtain, and cosmonauts...none of that ever happened?


He's a

http://feb17.info/

12:00pm today: Libya’s health minister, Mohammed Hijazi Wednesday travelled to Egypt to request officials for medical supplies to meet shortages in Libya, Egypt’s official news aency, MENA has reported.

Mr Hijazi made the trip to Cairo from from the Tunisian capital. It has been further reported, that his stay in Cairo is to last several days, during which he will meet with Egyptian officials and ask for medical support so that the Tripoli government can meet the increasing need for medical supplies,” MENA reported.

Mr. Hijazi, accompanied by Social Affairs Minister Ibrahim Sherif, first visited Tunisia for talks with international parties on efforts to halt the conflict in their country, Tunisia’s stte news agency TAP said on Monday.

The Libyan conflict has raged since February, pitting Libyan leader Muammar Al Qathafi and his loyalists in Tripoli against rebel forces based in Benghazi who are trying to to oust him.

Reports indicated Sunday that French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe is aware of talks are being made between the Al Qathafi regime and the rebels, notably concerning the Libyan leader’s future.

Reuters:

Defiant Gaddafi warns NATO of "catastrophe"
Fri Jul 1, 2011 5:11pm GMT

TRIPOLI, July 1 (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi delivered an address by telephone to thousands of supporters who gathered in Tripoli's Green Square on Friday, vowing to stay on and warning the NATO-led alliance to stop its air war or face "catastrophe."

"We advise you to retreat before you face a catastrophe," Gaddafi told the crowd of supporters who waved green flags and posters of the Libyan leader, whose soldiers are fighting a war against NATO-backed rebels seeking his overthrow.

"I advise you to ground your planes ... and to hold discussions with the Libyan people," Gaddafi said, denouncing an arrest warrant against him issued on Monday by the International Criminal Court. (Reporting by Lutfi Abu-Aun; Writing by Joseph Nasr; Editing by Alison Williams)

BBC World News:

1 July 2011 Last updated at 19:02 GMT

Libya: Muammar Gaddafi threatens Europe

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has threatened to attack Europe in revenge for Nato's operations in Libya.

Col Gaddafi said Libya would target European "homes, offices, families" unless Nato stopped its campaign.

He spoke via an audio message broadcast to tens of thousands of supporters gathered in a central Tripoli square.

His message comes after France confirmed it had supplied weapons to anti-government rebels, delivering arms to Berber tribal fighters near Tripoli.

In the broadcast, played via loudspeakers to gathered crowds in the capital's Green Square, he called on supporters to "march on the western mountains", the area where the weapons had been delivered.

'Like locusts'

Then he warned Europe that Libyans would seek revenge.

"These people [the Libyans] are able to one day take this battle [...] to Europe, to target your homes, offices, families, which would become legitimate military targets, like you have targeted our homes," he said.

"If we decide to, we are able to move to Europe like locusts, like bees. We advise you to retreat before you are dealt a disaster," he added.

His message come just days after the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Col Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam and Libyan intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanoussi for crimes against humanity.

International prosecutors allege government troops fired on civilian protesters during anti-Gaddafi street demonstrations earlier this year.

Friday's rally was one of the largest in recent times, says the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes, in Tripoli, and the message was the first time that Col Gaddafi had been heard of in weeks.

Austin Daily Herald reports he also said that Gadhafi denounced the rebels as traitors and blamed them for Libya’s troubles. He said Libyans who fled to neighboring Tunisia are now “working as maids for the Tunisians.”

“What brought you to this stage? The traitors,” Gadhafi said in the audio message.

He urged his supporters to “march on the western mountains” to clear the area of weapons the French government delivered to the rebels there several days ago.

Al Jazeera: A fuller version of the post on the post yesterday. Note the reaction by the African Union to the arrest warrant, not surpising, is it? He goes, they lose their bankroll master.

Defiant Gaddafi threatens Europe
In a telephonic message delivered to thousands of supporters, Libyan leader tells NATO to leave or "face catastrophe".
Last Modified: 02 Jul 2011 01:45

Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, has delivered a telephone address through loudspeakers to thousands of supporters gathered in Tripoli's Green Square, warning the NATO-led alliance to stop its war support or face "catastrophe".

In the Friday speech, 100 days after NATO first entered the country, Gaddafi gave multiple warnings to foreign forces that have been militarily supporting anti-regime rebels for months, to a crowd of supporters who waved green flags and posters of the head of state.

"We advise you to retreat before you face a catastrophe... If we decide to, we are able to move to Europe like locusts, like bees," Gaddafi said.

Addressing the West, Gaddafi warned that Libyans could take revenge on Europe for supporting of rebel forces.

"We can decide to treat you [Europe] in a similar way," adding, "if we decide, we can also move it [the war] to Europe, to target your homes, offices, families, which would become legitimate military targets, like you have targeted our homes."

"I advise you to ground your planes... and to hold discussions with the Libyan people," Gaddafi said, denouncing an arrest warrant against him issued on Monday by the International Criminal Court [ICC].

In his speech, the embattled Libyan leader addressed the thronging crowd of supporters, giving them specific direction surrounding a French weapon drop earlier in the week.

"March on the jebel [Nafusa] and seize the weapons that the French have supplied [to rebel forces]. If later you want to pardon them [the rebels], that's up to you."

Alain Juppe, the French foreign minister, said in Vienna on Friday that this week's arms drop was meant only to defend peaceful civilians from Gaddafi's forces and thus fell in line with existing UN resolutions on the conflict.

"Civilians had been attacked by Gaddafi's forces and were in an extremely vulnerable situation and that is why medicine, food and also weapons of self-defence were parachuted," Juppe said, speaking on France Inter radio.

Friday's was one of the largest pro-government rallies in recent weeks, coming just days after the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Gaddafi and two others.

Rebel retreat

Earlier in the day, anti-government forces who had advanced to within 80km of Gaddafi's stronghold in the capital were forced to retreat after coming under a barrage of rocket fire from government forces.

A rebel advance five days before to the outskirts of the small town of Bir al-Ghanam had raised the possibility of a breakthrough in the four-month old conflict that has become the bloodiest of the "Arab Spring" uprisings.

Rebel fighters who had been on the outskirts of the small town of Bir al-Ghanam and preparing for an attack were forced to pull back under fire from Russian-made Grad rockets, said a Reuters photographer in Bir-Ayyad, 30km to the south.

He said the rocket barrage was now reaching as far back as Bir-Ayyad, a road junction in the foothills of the Western Mountain range southwest of Tripoli from where the rebels had launched their advance last week.

The reversal underlines the resilience of Gaddafi's forces, who have withstood 15 weeks of bombardment by NATO missiles and warplanes, and attempts by rebels on three fronts to break through their lines.

The Libyan conflict has sent ripples far beyond the North African country of six million people. The fighting has halted Libyan oil exports, helping push up world crude prices to about $111 a barrel.

AU's stance on ICC warrant

Meanwhile, the African Union [AU] on Friday said it will not execute an ICC arrest warrant issued for the Libyan leader.

African leaders at the AU summit in Equatorial Guinea said the warrant issued last week "seriously complicates" efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Libyan conflict.

The warrant "seriously complicates the efforts aimed at finding a negotiated political settlement to the crisis in Libya, which will also address, in a mutually reinforcing way, issues related to impunity and reconciliation," it said.

An assembly of the summit decided that "AU member states shall not cooperate in the execution of the arrest warrant," according to a text of the decisions.

Video from Telegraph:

Libya from colonization to Gaddafi’s “Freedom, Socialism and Unity”
Posted on July 2, 2011 by admin

Aït Menguellet sings about Libya’s Struggles. Subtitled into English - besides the singer, there is footage of Libya for about the last 100 years or so.



Lounis Aït Menguellet (17 January 1950) was born in Ighil Bouammas in the Djurdjura mountains, near Tizi-Ouzou and is a Berber singer from Kabylie, Algeria, who sings in the Berber language, Kabyle. Lounis Aït Menguellet is certainly one of the most popular and charismatic artists of the contemporary Kabyle music scene.

Great song and video!

Chicane wrote:Great song and video!

Thanks, like a lot of what I post that is not main news items, I tend to 'find' them often when looking for totally different subjects, I'm like a bloodhound! The language he sings in, Kabyle, is totally banned in Libya with severe penalties for using it - the weird thing is Gadaffi is actually a Berber! -, tho it is the Berber language; all Libyans are required to use only Arabic. LL

http://feb17.info/

10:00am: In a speech given over audio yesterday, Gaddafi threatened to bring the fighting to the shores of Europe

9:00am: A South African law firm that says it representes Muammar Gaddafi claims that the International Criminal Court has no jurisdiction in Libya, and hence the arrest warrants it has issued are irrelevant.

“The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya never signed or ratified the international treaty establishing the International Criminal Court,” said a statement from the Langa Attorneys in Johannesburg and Rome.

“It is clear that the ICC has no jurisdiction on the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and that the immunity of the Head of State, provided by international customary law, applies to Colonel Gaddafi,” it said.

“By issuing the warrants of arrest the ICC has complacently misled the world about its penchant to take the law into its own hands as the ICC has no jurisdiction over Libya [...] Now that the ICC has issued its illegitimate warrants, we expect NATO to stop their bombings and to also abandon its threat to kill Colonel Gaddafi and allow the ICC disputed process to take course.”

8:00am: African Union leaders offered on Friday to host talks between the Libyan government and rebels on a ceasefire and transition to democratic government, but left open whether there was any future role for Muammar Gaddafi.

The proposal was presented to representatives of Gaddafi and rebels attending a summit of the 53-nation grouping in the central African state of Equatorial Guinea.

“We will very soon launch talks in Addis,” South African President Jacob Zuma told reporters, referring to the Ethiopian capital where the AU is headquartered.

There was no immediate reaction from either side to the offer, which according to a copy seen by Reuters, would aim to establish “a consensual and inclusive transition” via an interim government and elections.

Libya revolutionaries prepare for fight over strategic town
Reuters: Posted on July 2, 2011 by admin

Libya’s revolutionaries have never been closer to the seat of Muammar Gaddafi’s power than this ridge, where they have gathered on high ground 80 km (50 miles) from Tripoli.

They battled their way here this week from the mountains to the southwest. Now, if they are going to fulfill their goal of marching on the capital, they will have to defeat Gaddafi’s forces massed on the desert plain below.

About 50 rebel fighters spent Thursday at an observation post 2 km outside the town of Bir al-Ghanam, using binoculars to try to assess the position of Gaddafi’s forces.

Apart from their Kalashnikov rifles, they are armed with an assortment of scavenged weapons, including pick-up trucks with anti-aircraft guns and rocket pods, normally slung under the wings of aircraft but here adapted to be carried on the trucks.

Gaddafi’s forces know the rebels are watching them from the ridge. At one point on Thursday they fired mortars and artillery, sending people running for cover.

Bir al-Ghanam is just an hour’s drive from Aziziyah on Tripoli’s southern outskirts, and a similar distance from Zawiyah, which controls the coastal highway that links Tripoli to the Tunisian border and the outside world.

A trickle of fighters from around the region joined them throughout the day. Some came from Zintan, in the mountains behind them, while others said they had made their way clandestinely from Zawiyah, where Gaddafi’s forces have put down two revolts since February.

As well as around 50 fighters on the ridge, others were in positions further forward, closer to the town.

A revolutionarie spokesman in Nalut in the Western Mountains said on Wednesday there had been exchanges of fire the day before.

“The revolutionaries and brigades exchanged bombardment yesterday evening in Bir al-Ghanam,” said the spokesman, who gave his name as Mohammed. He said the rebels had seized weapons depots near the town.

The Western Mountains are the only area where the rebels have managed to make steady advances since NATO war planes began bombing to support them three months ago. Elsewhere, despite NATO support, rebel advances have been blocked by better-armed government troops.

With the war lasting longer than planned, the NATO allies who have pledged to keep bombing until Gaddafi is swept from power hope the advances on the Western Mountain front will finally turn the tide.

France disclosed on Wednesday that it had air-dropped arms to the revolutionaries in the Western Mountains, the first time a Western country had acknowledged arming the fighters. It is the sort of aid the fighters have been requesting for months.

For now, the revolutionaries seem to be waiting on the ridge for the odds to tilt in their favour before attacking.

NATO airstrikes could tip the balance. Chatter on the rebels’ radio receivers mentioned the possibility of NATO strikes, but no one seemed to know when they would be coming

Article from World Affairs Journal (USA).

Dispelling Libyan Myths By: Ann Marlowe
Posted on July 1, 2011

In the two weeks since I returned from Free Libya, I’ve been amazed at how many people I talk with repeat the same misapprehensions about the country, the revolution, and what the US is doing there. I hear that Libya is “tribal,” that what is going on is a “civil war,” that we “don’t know anything” about the people currently governing Eastern Libya. The average person I have talked with thinks that the free Libyan forces are either a bunch of al-Qaeda, or Islamists at best, or savage tribesmen. And everyone believes we are involved in training and supplying the free Libyan forces, with a fair number of people somehow having got the notion that we have special forces working on the ground.

So, a quick clarification is in order.

Libya is probably less “tribal” than Italy is regional. It is a much more urban society than most Americans suspect, which has been part of the problem of the free forces: Benghazi kids are less likely to have camping, hiking, or hunting experience even than New York kids. I only saw one outdoor goods store in Benghazi, a city of 800,000, and (a bit incongruously) one scuba equipment store. It is also a geographically dispersed society. There have been large movements of Libyans from one part of the country to another in the last forty years, both for employment and for education (the Free Libyan capital, Benghazi, has the country’s oldest, biggest, and most prestigious university). I met dozens of people in eastern Libya who had close relatives in Tripoli or Misrata or both. I didn’t meet anyone with relatives in the Nafusa Mountains, which seems more self-contained, like our Appalachia. Tribes, I’ve been told, serve a social function and adjudicate land issues in rural areas. But they no more have militias than, say, an American country club does.

The war in Libya is often termed a “civil war,” but it is not. Civil wars pit two parts of the population against each other. But there is no discernable part of the population that supports Colonel Qaddafi actively, even in Tripoli. Where are the Qaddafi supporters? Where are their militias? The war is one of Qaddafi and his army against the people of Libya.

True, about 30 percent of the population was at one time enrolled in the lijan thuria or “revolutionary committees.” These were part neighborhood watch organizations, part death squads. Some joined to advance their careers, some due to blood ties to important Qaddafi regime figures, some out of conviction or bloodthirstiness. (There are certainly criminals and twisted souls in Libya, as anywhere else.) There will be big issues in re-integrating the true believers in Tripoli—but if they are numerous, they are certainly keeping a low profile now.

A word about Qaddafi’s army. From what I understand, Qaddafi dismantled the Libyan army that he inherited in 1969 when he took power. He threw officers of field grade or higher in jail if they were suspected of being loyal to the deposed king, or tossed them out. He installed his own army buddies in high positions. And in recent years, Qaddafi’s ambassadors to Niger and Mali are said to have offered Libyan passports to men willing to enlist in the army. They are not quite mercenaries, but they are not Libyans with roots in the country, either.

What about the National Transitional Council? Its members are definitely inexperienced, often bureaucratic—there are a lot of lawyers on it—but neither mysterious nor Islamist. I have heard criticisms of the council, and some are credible. The most grave is that they are not taking the management of the war seriously enough, that when asked to supply the free forces with one thing or another, they say something like, “We will study it.” (More on this later.)

Another complaint against the council, which will need more attention once Qaddafi goes, is a lukewarm commitment to women’s participation in governance. Libya has no tradition of this—there were no women in its very short-lived 1950s Parliament—though Qaddafi did succeed in getting women equal pay for equal work. There are only two or three women on the 40-member body, and only one on the new 16-member Executive Office.

But it is worth noting that it is not clear that the NTC will in fact be the governing body of a free Libya, once Tripoli falls. There is a much larger group in eastern Libya called the “Committee to Protect the Revolution of the 17th of February,” and it might evolve into a governing group. Many people ask why the free parts of Libya don’t hold elections. The answer is invariably that doing so would constitute a de facto splitting of the country.

Finally, the myths about the war: as I reported recently in the Wall Street Journal, the free Libyans in the field are a tiny and frighteningly ill-equipped force. In the Western mountains and near Misrata, the current front lines, the whole male military age population is mobilized, and the women provide food and treat the wounded. But the uniformed forces are very small—their deputy commander, an American-educated computer entrepreneur named Mustafa Sagezli, told me there is just a company in Misrata, a company in the Western Mountains, and 1,200 men in the stalemated area between Adjabiya and Brega. (There is also one company in Jalou, near the oil fields, and three companies each in Tobruk, Benghazi, and Kufra, in the deep south.)

We are doing next to nothing to help the free Libyan forces on the ground: no trainers, no non-lethal aid besides useless MREs (civil society groups feed the fighters), no weapons (Qatar has given assault rifles to the Libyan volunteers).

Who are these fighters? A broad range of Libyan men, from the poorly educated and unemployed to university grads from rich families, men from Benghazi and men from Kufra, deep in the desert. I’ve met very religious volunteers and very secular ones. They are as diverse a lot, perhaps, as our own Army—though there’s another mythology about that, of course. But enough for one day.

Thanks LL - I hope that is widely read!

A snippet in advance of what I may get off Al Jazeera later - it seems that Libyans are fleeing Tripoli in their hundreds - if you see the above post re what is happening there, the repression, torture etc you can well understand why. As soon as I get a report I'll post it up. LL

Thanks, LL!
They are also likely to flee to get away from the last days of carnage before he goes?
Despots have a nasty habit of taking others down with them.

AFP News.Clinton urges Kadhafi to deliver democracy not threats
Source: Hassen Jouini
Africa | 1 hour ago
By: Francis Tawiah

TRIPOLI (AFP) - US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton demanded on Saturday that Moamer Kadhafi deliver democracy instead of threats, after the Libyan leader warned Europe of stinging attacks unless NATO halts its air war.

"Instead of issuing threats, Kadhafi should put the well-being and interests of his own people first and he should step down from power and help facilitate a democratic transition," Clinton said on a visit to NATO ally Spain, the latest leg of a European tour.

In a speech broadcast by loudspeaker to thousands of loyalists gathered in Tripoli's emblematic Green Square on Friday, the Libyan leader had warned that his loyalists could launch stinging attacks on Europe like "locusts and bees".

"The Libyan people are capable, one day, of taking the battle to Europe and the Mediterranean," Kadhafi said.

"They could attack your homes, your offices, your families, which could become legitimate military targets because you have transformed our offices, headquarters, homes and children into military targets which you say are legitimate," Kadhafi said.

"If we decide to do so, we are capable of throwing ourselves on Europe like swarms of locusts or bees."

Spanish Foreign Minister Trinidad Jimenez was asked at a news conference with Clinton about Kadhafi's threat and vowed that NATO would keep up the pressure on the Libyan leader.

"The answer of Spain and the international coalition is to maintain the unity and determination with which we have been working in the past months," she said.

"We are working together to protect the Libyan people from the threats and violence that Kadhafi is employing against them. We will stay until we achieve our goals."

Kadhafi's regime has earned notoriety over the four decades since he seized power in 1969, arming militant groups from Northern Ireland to the Philippines, and being held responsible for a string of bombings against Western targets, including in Europe.

A Libyan agent, Abdelbaset Ali Mohmet al-Megrahi, was convicted of the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over the Scottish town of Lockerbie, which killed 270 people, most of them US nationals.

The 1986 bombing of a Berlin discotheque frequented by US soldiers, which killed three people, two of them servicemen, prompted then US president Ronald Reagan to call Kadhafi a "mad dog" and order air strikes against Libyan cities in which at least 15 people died.

The Libyan regime also provided arms to the Irish Republican Army through the 1970s and 1980s for use in its bloody campaign against British security forces and was held responsible for the 1989 bombing of a French UTA airliner over west Africa.

The Libyan leader urged supporters to retrieve weapons that France supplied to rebels battling his regime from bases in an armed enclave in the Nafusa Mountains, southwest of the capital.

"March on the jebel (mountains) and seize the weapons that the French have supplied," Kadhafi said.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said on Friday that this week's arms drop was meant only to defend peaceful civilians from Kadhafi's forces and thus fell in line with existing UN resolutions on the conflict.

"Civilians had been attacked by Kadhafi's forces and were in an extremely vulnerable situation and that is why medicine, food and also weapons of self-defence were parachuted," Juppe said France Inter radio.

"It is not a violation of the UN Security Council resolutions" under which France and other allies launched air strikes and imposed embargoes to protect civilians from Kadhafi, he added.

NATO said on Saturday that it had stepped up its air strikes against Kadhafi's forces on the front lines around the rebels' two enclaves in the mainly government-held west -- the Nafusa Mountains and Libya's third-largest city Misrata.

In the past four days in Gharyan, a government stronghold near the mountains, NATO aircraft struck eight targets including a military complex used to resupply Kadhafi troops, tanks and other military vehicles, the alliance said.

In its daily report for Friday, NATO said it had launched a total of 42 strike sorties over Libya, hitting two tanks near Gharyan and two armed vehicles near Bir al-Ghanam, also near the Nafusa.

In and around Tripoli, it said it had hit a military facility, three radars, two anti-aircraft guns, a surface-to-air missile launcher, four tanks, and a command and control vehicle.

2011 AFP

http://feb17.info/

3:30pm: Libyan rebels on Saturday welcomed a peace proposal by the African Union, saying they interpreted it as meaning Muammar Gaddafi should play no further role in the country’s leadership.

AU leaders on Friday offered to host immediate talks between the two Libyan sides on a ceasefire and a process of transition towards a democratic government, but left open the question over Gaddafi’s future role in the country.

“We understood that the spirit of the document is that Gaddafi will not have a role to play in the future of Libya,” Mansour Sayf al Nasr, the rebel’s representative for France, told reporters at the summit in Equatorial Guinea. Gaddafi’s officials have yet to react publicly to the plan.

12:00pm: Yesterday, the Sudanese army has seized a town in southern Libya of Kufra that is the gateway to oilfields crucial to rebel hopes of establishing financial independence. Officials overseeing the no-fly zone enforced by Nato over Libya said the Sudanese move north of border had not encountered resistance from troops loyal to Col Muammar Gaddafi.

Reports today say Kufra is now safe and free.

That's a new wrinkle, LL - it suggests that the African Union has decided which way to jump?

bb1 wrote:That's a new wrinkle, LL - it suggests that the African Union has decided which way to jump?

I don't think the AU knows its a*se from its elbow, bonny, some members are saying the above, other are saying they will not recognise the arrest warrants or a new Libyan government .... I give up wih them, I'm afraid! LL

Al Jazeera:

Misurata's call for arms
Rebel commanders in the Libyan port city say they are in desperate need of weapons and ammunition.
Last Modified: 02 Jul 2011 01:43

Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, has threatened retaliation against Europe - warning of stinging attacks like "locusts and bees".

Gaddafi said that Europe could face a "catastrophe" unless NATO ceases operations in his country.

He also urged supporters to retrieve weapons that France says it has supplied in rebel-held areas.

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton reports from Misurata, where the rebels say they're in desperate need of more foreign military assistance.

http://feb17.info/

9:46pm today: Efforts to pressure Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi out of power are succeeding, and there will not be stability in Libya until he steps down, U.S. national security adviser Tom Donilon. We have put together a broad, comprehensive set of pressure efforts to see him — to pressure him to step down. I think those efforts are succeeding,” he said. “There’s almost an inevitability here, I think. There is an inevitability here building as to what the ultimate result will be.”

9:15pm: British Apache helicopters have targeted a military base being used by Col Gaddafi’s forces to terrorise local people, the Ministry of Defence announced. It said the aircraft hit the Al Mayah military camp near Az Zawiyah. MoD spokesman Major General Nick Pope said: “The camp has been used by regime forces as a base from which to terrorise the local population. ”In a single mission before midnight, UK Apaches used Hellfire missiles and cannons to destroy or disable a command and control vehicle, a bunker firing position and three main battle tanks.”

9:00pm: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton stepped up Western calls on Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi to quit on Saturday, brushing off his threat to attack Europeans in their homes and offices. “Instead of issuing threats, Gaddafi should put the well-being and the interests of his own people first and he should step down from power and help facilitate a democratic transition,” Clinton told reporters on a trip to Spain.

8:55pm: The international media presence is shrinking in Tripoli. Several cos. pulled staff out today, no replacements in sight.

8:50pm: The African Union hopes a document it has drawn up on Libya will form a base for negotiations between government and rebels.

Morning! Al Jazeera Live Blog:

6 hours 27 min ago

Moussa Ibrahim, the Libyan government spokesman, says that Libya welcomes the AU offer of negotiations to end the conflict, saying "we salute their courage".

He also says that there are no plans for Gaddafi to leave the country.

"We are at war with the mightiest armies in the world, and the safety of the leader is a must for us. So we need to keep him safe to lead us through this difficult time," he said.

Ibrahim confirmed that, as promised, Gaddafi would not take part in the talks, adding that he hoped a ceasefire could be reached "in the next few days, or weeks at most".

............................................................................

Link as quite a lot to read on this site: http://feb17.info/

Also: 15:22 Free Generation Movement say they have verified reports of busloads of people being brought into Tripoli to participate in yesterday’s rally.

APF via Libyans Forever

Libyans ‘executed’ for shunning Gaddafi rally: relative
Posted on July 3, 2011 by admin

AFP BENGHAZI, Libya — Hours after thousands packed Tripoli’s Green Square cheering for Moamer Kadhafi, Mohammed said the still warm body of his nephew was dumped outside the family home with two bullets in his head.

Mohammed told AFP why he is certain 30-year-old’s Ahmed’s fate was sealed while green flags were waving on the other side of the capital and as Kadhafi dished out threats against Europe, NATO and Libyan “traitors” on Friday.

Ahmed’s execution, he said, was punishment for his family’s refusal to take part in the rally, a vital show of strength by the Libyan leader amid a five-month-long uprising that has pushed the regime to the brink of collapse.

“Four or five days ago a member of one of Kadhafi’s revolutionary committees approached my brother’s family in Tripoli,” the 50-something Mohammed told AFP on Saturday, his voice ringing with anger and mourning.

“They told him: ‘We have your son, he is being held at Abu Salim prison. If your family does not come out to demonstrate on Friday you will never see your son again’.”

With an extended clan of around 50 adult males alone, securing the family’s attendance would have helped Kadhafi reach his aim of putting a million people on the streets to undermine rebel morale.

But angry at the thought that Ahmed may already be dead and hearing that many neighbours had received similar threats, his family refused to go.

“My brother told them ‘whatever happens is going to happen, we are not going to go out to demonstrate for Kadhafi’,” Mohammed said, holding his head in his hands.

“We did not think it was possible that he (Ahmed) was still alive, we thought the guy was just making threats.”

Ahmed went missing in Tripoli a few days after the uprising against Kadhafi began in February, as Tripoli’s youth burned images of the self-styled “leader of the revolution” and stormed a state-run television station.

When Kadhafi hit back and Ahmed disappeared, the family assumed he had been shot by soldiers, mercenaries or one of Kadhafi’s feared security services.

They now believe he was arrested on February 22 and taken to the notorious Abu Salim prison with many others. Either way, the next time the family saw Ahmed was on the doorstep of their home on Saturday.

“The bullet wounds were fresh. He was shot this morning, even the blood was still warm,” Mohammed said from the safety of Benghazi, after reaching his brother using clandestine communications earlier in the day.

Mohammed said he knows of at least two other families in their neighbourhood of Tripoli who also received their sons’ bodies on Saturday morning. Both had also refused to attend the Kadhafi rally.

It was not possible to fully corroborate Mohammed’s account of events because reporting is severely restricted in areas under Kadhafi’s control.

However, groups such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have reported evidence of extrajudicial executions by government forces across the country.

Reports have also surfaced about such threats and executions inside Tripoli, but international human rights groups have no presence in the capital and have not been able to fully investigate.

A representative for the rebel National Transitional Council in London on June 26 claimed there were “confirmed reports” of 187 prisoners being killed at Abu Salim prison over the course of two days earlier last month.

Because of petrol shortages in Tripoli, Mohammed said relatives there planned to walk around four or five kilometres (about three miles) on Saturday to be able to bury Ahmed.

“There is nothing but air and God in Tripoli,” he said. “You are either with Kadhafi or you starve.”

“I just want the world to know how Kadhafi works,” added Mohammed, explaining his reasons for speaking out. Despite the dangers “we are obliged to put this out in the open,” he said.