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Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR !

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:12 am

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR !
Bundleman went in and out by that front door almost without doubt. It is the obvious weak point and so easy to use.
But that means almost certainly someone connected to OC had a key and also probably assisted bundleman.

However, there seems to be a vested interest from all sorts of people to take the eye away from that front door. Why? Is someone important being covered for?

Pat Browns tommy rot:
[quote]There was some shrubbery along the left wall of the parking lot that has been removed but the view of the McCanns door and window would not have been obscured (I must add since I have been rightly corrected and I have doublechecked the photos at that time, there are trees also lining the back side on the street, it is difficult to say today if one is high up looking down from one balcony or the other, who can see the window). My purpose of this photo was to show that the window and door of 5A was not a location that was as hidden from view as one might think.[/quote]

Lets look at a few photographs and examine that statement:
Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Carpark5A.jpg.w180h135
Car drive IN in daylight. No sight of the front door even, not even a whisper of the deep alcove recess..



From the west

This means that any place west of here has absolutely no view of the front door or the alcove

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! GoogleEarth_Image
This GEarth image clearly shows the the IN car park entrance. All cars and peeps have to come in via this entrance to use the front doors

The route people walked

In the middle of the building there is a slightly curved piece of building [look just under the "C" of "Front Car Park" in white]

This curved part is the place where the pathways to all the ground floor flats start and also the stairways start here, I believe. So every one has to walk diagonally across the car park in order to reach the way to their flats. As they walk across there they are at right angles to the Maccan apartment and cannot at any point in their journey see the front door. The alcove is out of sight for the full, length of their walk.
Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Carpark5A.jpg.w180h135
Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! 0018d.jpg.w180h144


Front door alcove in daylight.

This alcove is deeply set back and only visible from a small part of the parking lot. As I mentioned above, nobody walks over that small area because entrance to every flat is via the central part of the building.

OK, so even in daylight that front door is hidden from view to all peeps walking to and from their flat within the parking lot. Tonight I saw mention (was it in C Edwards post? not sure) that the outside porch light to 5A was broken.


After dark the front door vanishes

Just a little further eastwards the alcove is beginning to show, but look what happens after dark. The front door recess area is so dark that it vanishes

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Extras_do_livro_Page_3

and in Pat Browns photo.

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! View%2Bof%2BApartment%2B5A%2Bfrom%2BBalcony
That dark area is the alcove, not the front door. The front door is in a complete black shadow and invisible even without any trees at all. Absolutely hidden in plain view. Like MagicK.


From the east

Oh and then there is the view of this door (and window) when approaching from the east
Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! The-ocean-club-appartments-in-praia-da-luz-image-1-218418668
Here we see the view of the front door of 5A when approaching from the east.

Great innit? High wall! Door VERY EXPOSED innit? Can see about 3" of it at the top. And the window is completely out of view. Oh and I forgot to say, that is without the dense trees that were there in 2007. This means that the front door (and window) is completely hidden when approaching from the East


From the south

The garden wall that you see going down to the left is quite high. There used to be a photograph of this garden wall with a PJ /GNR officer standing right by it and it was well above his head, so at the front door end it is probably well over 2 metres high on Rua FGM side. This photograph appears to have been whooshed. Anyone got a copy, please?

This means that the door and window are completely hidden from the South, even without the densely canopied trees



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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:13 am



So South, east and west

NO views of the front door at all, even in daylight, and with NO trees.
There is no approach from the North, just the road going past with a maximum distance of 12 yards where if the tree cover was not there, maybe, just maybe someone could spot someone at that front door. But the door was in pitch black and peeps look in the direction they are walking or at light, NOT at blackness.


Remember, anyone in the street was in a lighted area and 5A front door and window were in a pool of blackness only relieved by ?maybe moonlight. [Something that I had not previously thought of, is the time the moon rose in the sky, but I think I read in the last week that it was after the abduction time.]



PdL is very hilly and land is built up in places to form horizontal parking places etc. The OC parking lot is built up. In comparison to the parking lot and 5A, Rua FGM is like a ramp up, hence the wall being higher on one side than on the other.


OK, Pat, the window can be seen from certain very limited places, but the front door is virtually totally hidden. Bring trees and darkness into the equation and the front door to 5a vanishes completely.

All this emphasis on the front window is nuts. Who has put you up to that, or was it your own idea, Pat? My advice, Pat, ... make sure that you are not being made a Patsy of. I am probably wrong about that, but I find it difficult to take on board how such a reknowned profiler and investigator could have made such whopping boo-boos on her own


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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 am



Why are you not looking at the front door, Pat?

Amaral always takes the attention off the front door, by saying that it was locked so no-one could get in that way. What rubbish. Ocean Club had keys; the maids could get in, even when the door was locked and the keys left in the lock on the inside. There had been two burglaries in the block in the previous couple of weeks via the front door. As a Ch Insp, PJ for the area, Amaral should have known that.


People are beginning to wonder? Cos if that front door was used, as it almost certainly was, then someone with connections to OC was very likely involved. Someone important?

I ask again, "Why is the Front door always being dismissed?"


Any break-in-merchant worth his salt would go for the easiest and safest option .. THE FRONT DOOR


Come on Pat; get your thinking cap on. THE FRONT DOOR, PAT .... THE FRONT DOOR, not the window; that's just a red herring

Pat, THE FRONT DOOR ! almost without doubt.

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:54 am

And Pat, Read this:

http://regretsandramblings.com/2012/02/16/predators-break-ins-locks-and-pat-brown/

All about break ins, front door security and the darkness of Ocean Club


The abductor went in and came out by the front door. think about it Pat

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:34 am

Thank you Jay

I actually measured that walkway wall towards the 5A window end. It was boob height rofl on the walkway side .. and waist height on the car park side. When I got home to England, these measurements equated to roughly 4 ft and 3ft ...so a difference in levels of about a foot between the pathway and the car park it seems, with the pathway lower. I only measured in one spot and I realise that is a slight weakness, because the wall height does vary some, but not dramatically.

An unusual way of measuring rofl and as a science based profesional, not very scientific embarass but it was within an inch or so. However, regretably it was measured only in the one spot.

Three days, including travelling, were not enough to cover everything in PdL and surroundings, Jay. I could have done with at least two weeks to cover everything.

I saw enough tho' to not only settle on the front door, but also to realise that my first theory as to the way that Bundleman went after JT's sighting was probably not correct. Ruling incorrect things out is almost as important as finding new things, so that was a plus.


The most amazing part of my visit was in Oporto/Vila Nova de Gaia ... very very interesting things up there, and of course a geographically correct and timewise correct linked trail of sightings up there on May 4th. But that is another story! A long one

==============


That tapas / pool area at 5A looks huge on some of the photos, yet it is very cosy and quite small in real life. They pack a quart into a pint pot there. I guess they have architect George Robin Crosland, (one of the three OC owners with David Symington and John Garveigh) to thank for that compact, but excellent design.


Catkins was surprised how small it all was too and she endorsed my thoughts about the front door.


Any intruder would be crazy not to use the front door.

Ignore the window, Pat <<< all smoke screens and red herrings, imo. Window possible, but not plausible, when the front door was so hidden and such a gift to any intruder.


It's gotta be the front door, in and out

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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks for putting that together, Sadie. It's blindingly obvious, and I pretty much agree that the front door is the obvious entry point.

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:46 am

Cheers,

It took me hours Bonny. I couldn't find photos I wanted and I am so slow ... one fingered typist

Not easy reading, because it is too analytical and detailed, and too long

But felt it should all be there. Pat Brown is going to have a problem disproving that. Truthfully she cant, because it is all documented now.

Also Amaral will have a problem in Court trying to prove that Madeleine was not abducted

Double whammy.

Oh and Bennett in Court too, if it comes up. Triple whammy Dancing



Actually, I am going to have a snooze now. Only 4 hours sleep for the last two nights and I am zonked..

Have the back of the appartment to tackle next, but a rest first. Hopefully I will get round to it soon.

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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:50 am

This whole 'window' business has been a distraction from the start, which it shouldn't have been.

It seems to have played some role, whether as lookout, emergency exit - whatever. I don't know, only the abductor/s do. But IMO this business of the front door, and unaccounted-for keys, is far more important.

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Few will weep tears for Amaral, seeing an angry man locked up in his own bitter and baseless theories
. -Neil Tweedie, Daily Mail, of the McCanns' tormentor Gonzo.
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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:18 pm

bb1 wrote:This whole 'window' business has been a distraction from the start, which it shouldn't have been.

It seems to have played some role, whether as lookout, emergency exit - whatever. I don't know, only the abductor/s do. But IMO this business of the front door, and unaccounted-for keys, is far more important.

Exactly Bonny. It has been a distraction all along, taking the eye off what is so obvious. Why was the door ignored? Why was the door never mentioned except once to be dismissed because it was locked .. and then just to prove Amarals naff, and senior peeps endorsed theory that Madeleine had to have died in 5A.
We really went to town on that in pfa2; maybe you did too? We quickly disproved that as a load of b.....ks. After we had roundly disproved it; guess what? It disappeared off tbe internet. Whooshed as far as I could see. When things are whooshed that makes me doubly suspicious. So much has been whooshed; ... if only peeps were aware.

As I have said before, I think you could solve this case by just looking at what is whooshed. smile

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:39 pm

bb1 wrote:This whole 'window' business has been a distraction from the start, which it shouldn't have been.

It seems to have played some role, whether as lookout, emergency exit - whatever. I don't know, only the abductor/s do. But IMO this business of the front door, and unaccounted-for keys, is far more important.

The window had several purposes imo

1) As an emergency escape route
2) To give a modicum of natural light to the scene in the bedroom and save having to put on the bedroom light or shine a torch. That artificial light might have been noticed by passers by.
PdL would be like a death town in early May, in my opinion. It was really quiet when we were there in July.
3) To give moral support and instruction to the druggist and lifter. Probably someone, OC Staff?, who had befriended Madeleine whilst at PdL, so that if she woke up she would not be faced by a stranger, but a "friend"
4) To pass equipment thru the window. Chloroform or a tazer maybe? ... or similar
5) To dissipate fumes
6) To take attention away from tha door because attention then concentrated on the key. Then OC staff became major suspects. Someone got hold of a key after all.


I dont think Madeleine went out thru that window. I think that she was carried out via the front door and the door opened and pulled to, using only the key

Only my thoughts. Please pull them apart.


I also think all three kids were partly drugged at teatime. They were too tired that night to go and have their pre sleep play on the play equipment with the other kids IIRC

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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:46 pm

I don't really think anyone would be tazering children, somehow, Sadie. I can't ever get to grips with the chloroform idea, but that is just me, because I am old enough to remember the absolutely foul smell; to this day, things like paint thinner, etc., make me feel ill all over again.

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:55 pm

bb1 wrote:I don't really think anyone would be tazering children, somehow, Sadie. I can't ever get to grips with the chloroform idea, but that is just me, because I am old enough to remember the absolutely foul smell; to this day, things like paint thinner, etc., make me feel ill all over again.

I can accept chloroform; had it many times myself as a child when having operations/ dental treatment but like you, I find tazer treatment unlikely.

I am more and more favouring the children being drugged at tea time. That night they were too tired to go out and play pre sleep with the other kids in the group. Hmm?

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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:04 pm

I've had this discussion with folk before, Sadie, and it always comes back to children all being very different.

The children could simply have been sound asleep after a busy day? Some children do sleep very soundly; others will wake up frequently during the night?

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. -Neil Tweedie, Daily Mail, of the McCanns' tormentor Gonzo.
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Post  Sabot on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:00 pm


Chloroform has no smell if it is made properly. It is easy to make. It can be carried on a pad in a plastic bag in a pocket.
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Post  Maggs on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:41 pm

The garden wall that you see going down to the left is quite high. There used to be a photograph of this garden wall with a PJ /GNR officer standing right by it and it was well above his head, so at the front door end it is probably well over 2 metres high on Rua FGM side. This photograph appears to have been whooshed. Anyone got a copy, please?

Here's a few pic's of the wall Sadie.

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Paulod11

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! The-oc11

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Zz5ad10

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Window11

ETA By these pic's the wall isn't very high though!


Last edited by Maggs on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:44 pm

Oh look, in the top pic, the shutters are squint Pcorneater

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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:52 pm

Maggs wrote:
The garden wall that you see going down to the left is quite high. There used to be a photograph of this garden wall with a PJ /GNR officer standing right by it and it was well above his head, so at the front door end it is probably well over 2 metres high on Rua FGM side. This photograph appears to have been whooshed. Anyone got a copy, please?

Here's a few pic's of the wall Sadie.

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Paulod11


Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Window11

Brilliant Maggs. That is what I call the walkway wall. Comparing the two, as you can see the wall as shown with the officer standing on the actual pathway is about 4 feet high (Boobs height on me).

The lower picture well shows how the land is higher on the car parking side, altho I think he is standing on a bit of a garden.

You dont have any pics of the Rua Dr FGM outer garden wall do you with a GNR or PJ oifficer standing under it? Its a tall wall

Thanks ever so Maggs

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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:13 pm

Hounder:

Any abductor would first and foremost check if the coast was clear. It wasn't, and the idea of lifting noisy shutters and peeping in is ridiculous, the father was standing outside of the apartment talking to Jez and Jane Tanner was walking towards the apartments

ORLY? How's about discovering your cellphone won't work inside 5a, preventing you from speaking to your lookout and you have to open the window and shutters from the INSIDE to see out? And naturally you would think the coast was clear BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE ROUND CORNERS.

You assume the coast is clear, and leave the way you came in - through the door - leaving the window and shutters open.

And nearly walk straight into Jane Tanner.

Notice the way they try to make all this terribly complicated, when it is actually perfectly simple?

When Kate McCann found Madeleine gone, and the windows and shutters open, it is perfectly natural for her to assume, in panic, that they were used to break in, when it was actually the front door, with a key.

It suited Team Gonc to insist that the window couldn't have been used, and that this meant the McCanns DONE IT.

The myth of the immovable shutters has been a main forker shibboleth from the start. Newsflash - they are anything but immovable, which lead the forkers and hounders to start inventing complicated scenarios about lengths of wood.

It would be pretty simple to abduct a child through that window.

It would be even simpler to abduct a child through the front door, and the window has always been a diversion.

Question - whose agenda did it suit to hype up the importance of that window?


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. -Neil Tweedie, Daily Mail, of the McCanns' tormentor Gonzo.
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Post  Sabot on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:23 pm


Who said there were no spare keys? Who decided The McCanns were guilty on Day One? Who never spoke to or even met The McCanns?
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Post  bb1 on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Fat bloke? Spent most of his time in bars? Kicked off the case? Threatens to shoot ex-girlfriends and drives drunk with children in the car? Ripped his own brother off? That one?

The name's on the tip of my tongue......,

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Post  lily on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:27 pm

A-moral by name, A-moral by nature..... that one?
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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Maggs wrote:
The garden wall that you see going down to the left is quite high. There used to be a photograph of this garden wall with a PJ /GNR officer standing right by it and it was well above his head, so at the front door end it is probably well over 2 metres high on Rua FGM side. This photograph appears to have been whooshed. Anyone got a copy, please?

Here's a few pic's, Sadie.


Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! The-oc11

Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Zz5ad10

ETA By these pic's the wall isn't very high though!

I love that pictiure of the front door.

It really shows just how recessed the door is.. To the left of the door/porch is the back of the kitchen and to the right is the childrens' bedroom. I haven't been inside, but IIRC there is a small open ended hall which is open plan with the living room betond. I am quite experienced at reading plans and understanding shape having spent 7 years on an engineering design drawing board and also later having been an Art teacher.

In the lower picture, see how the alcove is turned away, set at an angle. That recess and angle is why one has to be almost immediately in front of the door in order to see it ... and the reason why anyone walking diagonally across the car park to their apartment from the car park entrance cannot see the front door.

Of course as i have mentioned earlier, there is a damned high wall (about 2 metres+ high?) when looking at 5A from Rua Dr FGM and the direction of Murats house (looking from the east in a westerly direction).

Just need that photo of the outer side of that wall with the police officer standing by it to prove everything. The crazy thing is that from that walkway this wall I am talking about looks only about 3 or 4 feet high (Just over a metre for our metric friends).

That means that up by the front door, the outer garden wall is holding back about another metre of ground from the incline of the road. The walkway is built up that much.

Gawd it is difficult to explain 3 dimensional things. Bet none of you understood the last two paragraphs

Thank you, thankyou, thankyou, Maggs hug



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Post  sadie on Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Pat Brown you saw it with your own eyes. How come you got so much wrong? Rolling Eyes

I am afraid that you have reached the Shytehitsfan stage!

You know Pat, there have been a number of children go missing and the perp must be stopped, yet you are putting out absolute garbage and helping him. The front door is where it happened, Pat, almost 100% certainty.

Sad . Sad . Sad . Sad . Sad . Sad . Sad for seven missing children, including Madeleine.



Think about it Pat. Get it right next time

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Post  Pedro Silva on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:11 pm

I wonder if this pat is a mother? I sometimes wonder what kind of behaviour does this pat brown had if it was with one of her children, she should placed in the position of parents whose children are missing, instead of continuing with her behaviour.
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Post  Sabot on Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Pat Brown might actually have made a few bob if she had tried Profiling The Abductor. As it is she has just made a colossal fool of herself.
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Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR ! Empty Re: Not the window! Pat .. THE FRONT DOOR !

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