ASSANGE MOM ARRIVES IN ECUADOR TO PLEAD HER SON'S ASYLUM CASE

lily wrote:If America wants to be treated like a civilised Country then it has got to get rid of The Death Penalty.

It is not legal in all 50 States, Sabot. So, are you saying that the US is not civilized? I think that is being unfair to be honest.

The US sends more help and aid to other nations than any other country on the planet.

I know it's not legal in all States, Lily, but it is in some, and it is a fact that some crimes can be tried to suit a purpose.
Sending aid is obviously good, but they send Arms as well. And Yes, I know that Britain has been known to do the same thing.

I hoped that I was exercising my right to Free Speech. I have no desire to seriously offend anyone. But this is why I rarely express contentious opinions.

Sabot, I simply do not care about Assenge. There is a warrant out for him in Sweden to answer charges involving sex; he can get his ar@e back to Sweden and sort it out, like a big grown-up person.

And stop this bl**dy circus.

And stop this bl**dy circus.

That's it for me. He gets me so angry at his self-pitying whines. He's created the mess let him suffer the consequences.

lily wrote:Sabot, are you saying that it was okay to publish on the world wide web personal information of informants for the US when they were at war?

When the enemy of the US stated what they were going to do to the informants?

What makes Assange more valuable than those people mentioned above?

Also, what right did Assange have in deeming that his free speech was more important that putting troops' lives at risk?

I really do not understand. The US was at war.

ETA: It is immaterial to me whether someone agrees or disagrees over the facts surrounding why the US was at war, the fact is, it was.

That is the whole point though, isn't it, Lily. Assange is not an American Citizen so he cannot be guilty of Treason in this case. Whether or not he should have done what he did was his decision to make. He could well be guilty of something under American Law, but is he guilty anywhere else?

I do think that the War was wrong, and I think that Britain is wrong as well, but the next thing you know I will be arrested and extradited for opposing my own Government and The Government of America, and expressing a less than complimentary opinion of both.
Today's Terrorists are tomorrow's Freedom Fighters. History will judge Julian Assange, but personally I doubt it will even register.

I don't agree with the war either, Sabot, but I always support the troops.

I will try to find the article from several months ago that stated what he might be guilty of.

He posted information about people who were working for charitable organizations too, Sabot - he has blood on his hands.

But that isn't what this is about, despite his efforts to make this political. It's about what he's been doing with his willy in Sweden - not exactly the most repressive country in the world.

If there is one country in the world where he is safe from any kind of political persecution, it's Sweden.

lily wrote:I don't agree with the war either, Sabot, but I always support the troops.

I will try to find the article from several months ago that stated what he might be guilty of.

Whatever it might be, Lily, I just don't see it as the right of America to try him for it.

I love my own perception of what The United States of America was and how it came about. It was a glorious fight against mindless oppression. That is what The Constitution is all about. But where does it say that a Foreign National who doesn't even live there, has no right to oppose them, or critisise what they have done.
Are The Nationals who helped them guilty of Treason against their own Country? In the letter of The Law, it seems so to me, although I perfectly understand why they did it.
This to me is a Moral Dilemma , and not a Legal one.
I think Tony Blair should have been Indicted for War Crimes. But then I think The Western World Governments should have been Indicted for War Crimes against Japan.

Personally, I think most of the Japanese leadership - including Hirohito - should have been indicted as war criminals.

They managed to slide past that one, due to the atom bomb and the Allies feeling guilty.

Using Chinese peasants as guinea pigs in medical experiments and conducting vivisections on American POW's certainly ticks my box for 'crimes against humanity'.

bb1 wrote:He posted information about people who were working for charitable organizations too, Sabot - he has blood on his hands.

But that isn't what this is about, despite his efforts to make this political. It's about what he's been doing with his willy in Sweden - not exactly the most repressive country in the world.

If there is one country in the world where he is safe from any kind of political persecution, it's Sweden.

I am seriously not interested in what he did with his willy in Sweden, Bonny. this is so tacky. And I place no credence on what a couple of women had to say after they found out he had sex with both of them. Even if they could prove that he didn't use a Condom. Which I doubt.
He did not escape from Sweden. They allowed him to leave. He then agreed to be questioned if they went to England to do it. Why didn't they? The PJ went to England to do The Rogatory Interviews. And you can bet your bottom dollar that none of The Tapas Eleventy Nine would have gone back to Portugal for those. I wouldn't have done if I was them. And nor would The McCanns without an Extradition Order. Would we have supported that if it had come to pass?

Sorry, I am not joining in this hand-wringing, America and the UK are evil, business.

It's tacky because Assange is tacky, and the offence he is accused of is tacky. He can pull on his Big Boy Pants and get himself to Sweden, and sort it out with the court.

And I neither care if the SAS go into the Embassy and get him, or if he is arrested when he sets foot outside, and put on the first Easyjet to Stockholm.

Just please, stop wasting British taxpayers' money and police resources on this attention-seeking wanker.

bb1 wrote:Personally, I think most of the Japanese leadership - including Hirohito - should have been indicted as war criminals.

They managed to slide past that one, due to the atom bomb and the Allies feeling guilty.

Using Chinese peasants as guinea pigs in medical experiments and conducting vivisections on American POW's certainly ticks my box for 'crimes against humanity'.

The whole bloody shooting match should have been Indicted for War Crimes, Bonny. They all committed atrocities. But The Winner is always right.
The main problem with the Japanese was that the Wester World didn't understand The Culture. Not that what they did was right, but they thought it was.

bb1 wrote:Sorry, I am not joining in this hand-wringing, America and the UK are evil, business.

It's tacky because Assange is tacky, and the offence he is accused of is tacky. He can pull on his Big Boy Pants and get himself to Sweden, and sort it out with the court.

And I neither care if the SAS go into the Embassy and get him, or if he is arrested when he sets foot outside, and put on the first Easyjet to Stockholm.

Just please, stop wasting British taxpayers' money and police resources on this attention-seeking wanker.

It's only me that is Hand Ringing, Bonny. If you can call it that. But LL knows what I am doing. And he would fight for the rights of Julian Assange if he was called upon to do so. Although I suspect that LL would be a bit more practiced. I tend to go off half cocked.

What? What is there to understand about what the Japanese did in Manchuria? What is there to understand about what they did to Britons after the fall of Hong Kong and Singapore?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes


R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. "This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture."[36] According to Rummel, in China alone, during 1937–45, approximately 3.9 million Chinese were killed, mostly civilians, as a direct result of the Japanese operations and 10.2 million in the course of the war.[37]

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Human experimentation and biological warfare


Shiro Ishii, commander of Unit 731
Special Japanese military units conducted experiments on civilians and POWs in China and Korea. One of the most infamous was Unit 731 under Shirō Ishii. Victims were subjected to experiments including but not limited to vivisection and amputations without anesthesia and testing of biological weapons. Anesthesia was not used because it was believed to affect results.[45]
To determine the treatment of frostbite, prisoners were taken outside in freezing weather and left with exposed arms, periodically drenched with water until frozen solid. The arm was later amputated; the doctor would repeat the process on the victim's upper arm to the shoulder. After both arms were gone, the doctors moved on to the legs until only a head and torso remained. The victim was then used for plague and pathogens experiments.[46]
According to GlobalSecurity.org, the experiments carried out by Unit 731 alone caused 3,000 deaths.[47] Furthermore, according to the 2002 International Symposium on the Crimes of Bacteriological Warfare, the number of people killed by the Imperial Japanese Army germ warfare and human experiments is around 580,000.[48] According to other sources, "tens of thousands, and perhaps as many as 400,000, Chinese died of bubonic plague, cholera, anthrax and other diseases...", resulting from the use of biological warfare.[49] Top officers of Unit 731 were not prosecuted for war crimes after the war, in exchange for turning over the results of their research to the Allies. They were also reportedly given responsible positions in Japan's pharmaceutical industry, medical schools and health ministry.[50][51]
One case of human experimentation occurred in Japan itself. At least nine out of 11 crew members survived the crash of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-29 bomber on Kyūshū, on May 5, 1945. (This plane was Lt. Marvin Watkins' crew of the 29th Bomb Group of the 6th Bomb Squadron.[52]) The bomber's commander was separated from his crew and sent to Tokyo for interrogation, while the other survivors were taken to the anatomy department of Kyushu University, at Fukuoka, where they were subjected to vivisection or killed.[53][54][55]

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Bad America, bad UK! We didn't understand their culture.

After both arms were gone, the doctors moved on to the legs until only a head and torso remained. The victim was then used for plague and pathogens experiments

Please stop and think about that for one moment, before lambasting the US and the UK.

I think it is time I left this Thread.

Brilliant.

A friend sent me this excerpt from a report on this matter:

Under Ecuador's asylum offer, Assange is not permitted to make political statements or grant interviews of a political nature, restrictions that are standard for anyone granted asylum, said an Ecuadorean Foreign Ministry official, who was not authorized to be quoted by name.

Significantly, Ecuador did not grant political but rather diplomatic asylum to Assange. "Political asylum would imply that Great Britain is persecuting him or threatens to persecute him," said Robert Sloane, international law professor at Boston University. By granting diplomatic asylum, Ecuador is keeping the door open to political negotiations. Sloane said that the type of asylum does not confer any diplomatic status or special privileges on Assange.

He pointed out that "Ecuador did not grant political but rather diplomatic asylum.... " and also the comment re 'keeping the door open' and the last sentence. LL

Thanks LL, that's very telling; it's hard to be sure just what the situation is, under all the heat and noise.

Somewhere or other today, I read that, following the death of Yvonne Fletcher, UK law on embassies was changed, to prevent people wanted in criminal matters to exploit the traditional asylum given by embassies.

Why does the UK keep getting stuck with these dramas? Assange has NOTHING to do with us - or Ecuador, for that matter.

A hard-hitting piece:

http://www.annaraccoon.com/politics/ian-brady-julian-assange-twin-souls-in-the-narcism-stakes/

http://news.sky.com/story/973861/ecuador-call-to-condemn-uk-over-assange

Ecuador Call To Condemn UK Over Assange
3:03pm UK, Friday 17 August 2012



Email
Ecuador will file a motion to the Organisation of American States calling for the condemnation of UK threats to enter its embassy.

More follows...



I am sure Argentina will support them.

It's now appearing as Breaking News that someone in the UK government has phoned someone in the Ecuator government.

What this means, I do not know.

http://news.sky.com/story/973861/assange-uk-minister-phones-ecuadorian-govt

Assange: UK Minister Phones Ecuadorian Govt
Sky sources: A senior UK Government minister says "we need to take the heat out of the situation".

Assange has been in his self-imposed house arrest for two months now in a flat the size of a tennis court. Most of the time he has been without a proper bed. A temporary shower has been installed as the embassy had no living accommodation at all, just a toilet and washbasin. His mother sent him a sun lamp as he seems to be sinking into depression because there is absolutely no access to the outdoors. I wonder is his motivation really to do with the death threat from legal processes in the US which every lawyer seems to think is impossible or is it simply publicity?

I can see many possible outcomes though.

He gets sick of being cooped up and gives up. (This could be played as a martyr to freedom of speech or some other "cause".)

The UK grants him free passage to Ecuador where he lives for evermore (causing that country untold economic problems because of western countries imposing sanctions either openly or surreptitiously.)

He tries to make a break for it disguised as someone else or using some kind of distraction and is most likely caught and arrested.

He sits it out for years. (Unlikely because the flat is not like the US embassy in Budapest where Cardinal Mindszenty had access to an internal courtyard.)

The UK storms the place or rescinds the diplomatic status of the building. (Unlikely as it would cause worldwide problems for western diplomats.)

The pressure from the South American countries (especially if Brazil joins in and Russia or China see it as a way to gain influence in the area) builds and threatens trade. This could lead to serious economic problems for all sides.

None of these outcomes is very satisfying for justice or for Assange for that matter. He seems to have been forced into a very nasty hole either (if you believe the conspiracy theory) by the UK and/or Sweden acting as proxies for the USA in retaliation for his wanton espousal of theft and "free speech", or by his own stupid sexual actions. Whichever, as usual the lawyers are going to be earning a fortune sorting it out.

ps Just to ratchet up the conspiracies surrounding this case. it was Alex Carlile the BBC's flagship radio news programme (The World Tonight) turned to as expert last night and it was Christopher Meyer who the BBC's flagship TV news programme (Newsnight) turned to. Seriously, they must all be in it, innit!

What, no masons yet?

I frankly do not believe Assange is in any danger of extradition in Sweden - he was more at risk in the UK.

No, it's so much cooler to be a martyr to the Great Satan than wanted in connection with sex offences in Sweden, of all places.

Also, he's repeatedly shown himself to be about as trustworthy as Bennett. I really, truly do not care what happens to him, as long as he is removed, one way or another, from Britain.