Knox Appeal: DNA Comes Under The Spotlight

All a bit dodgy, although I am not sure either way. Solecito's DNA on the bra clasp can only have come from him. It can't have been contaminated by someone else. But I don't have a lot of faith in DNA I'm afraid.

Thing is, he could have touched it in the washbasket - anything, really.
I watched a documentary about it, and it seemed to me like another one with a rather unlikeable defendant, and a lot of hot air and grandstanding from the prosecution.
Time will, as ever, tell.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16075726


Knox's Dad Urges Kerchers To See 'Truth'

3:37pm UK, Friday September 23, 2011
Nick Pisa, in Perugia

Jailed Amanda Knox's father has urged the heartbroken parents of Meredith Kercher to see that his daughter had nothing to do with the brutal murder.


Curt Knox spoke as his daughter's appeal resumed on Friday - and comes as Meredith's family described how she had been ''completely forgotten'' as emphasis on the case had shifted to Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.
They were convicted of murdering Meredith, 21, who was found semi-naked and with her throat cut in her bedroom of the house she shared with Knox and two Italian women almost four years ago.
They have insisted they are innocent and are appealing against the conviction, which saw Knox jailed for 26 years and Sollecito for 25.
Their families are hopeful they will be released after a damning court report condemned the original forensic investigation.
Mr Knox, who is in Perugia to be with his daughter, spoke of the Kercher family’s agony.
He said: ''We have not reached out to them but we have always expressed our sincere condolences to them for their loss.
"It's the worst thing that can happen to a parent but understanding the truth will allow them closure. To have two kids in jail for something they did not do, will not do honour to their daughter.


"They have the impression that Amanda had something to do with this and until they know that she didn't we cannot reach out to them - I cannot imagine the pain the Kerchers feel.
''I am very hopeful - the report that was presented has given us hope but until the court announces that she can go free we have to wait - they are deciding on Amanda's life."
He added: "She is feeling very jittery. All this stop-starting is very hard for her but now we are finally under way we are hopeful that the court will make the right decision and clear her of this and we can take her home."
Knox, 24, was led into court looking pale and apprehensive, managing a weak smile to her father and mother Edda Mellas who had flown in for the hearing.
In an Italian TV interview, Meredith's mother Arline and sister Stephanie spoke of how they feared Meredith's death had been overshadowed by the ongoing appeal.
Stephanie said: "In this whole case over the last four years Meredith has been completely forgotten but we need to find justice for her, the truth.
"There are no photos of Meredith in the papers or on the TV it is all on Amanda and Raffaele - the focus has shifted on them.
"Meredith was a lovely, intelligent person and we lost her in tragic circumstances."
Arline added: "Meredith was a volcano. She was always running late and on the run. She was full of life. She liked music and dancing. She was such a sweet girl.
"In these four years we have never stopped thinking about her. It's as if she was here with me still."
The original trial heard how a 30cm kitchen knife found at Sollecito's house had DNA from Meredith on the blade and that of Knox on the handle.
But the report said the amount from the victim was so small it could not be retested and should be considered unreliable - crucially they said there was no trace of blood on the knife but food starches were present.
Also key to the first hearing was a bloodied clasp from Meredith's bra found at the scene six weeks after the original investigation by forensic teams, and on which was said to be Sollecito's DNA.
However, the experts said the time gap gives rise to the real possibility of contamination.
On Friday the hearing began with Perugia's chief prosecutor Giovanni Galati making a statement to the court in which he backed his team and the original investigators, saying he had his "full faith" in the original findings.
He added: "The conclusions of the report are unfounded and are full of holes."

Prosecutors said they had ''an ace up their sleeve'' but refused to reveal any details, although their claims were dismissed by defence lawyers.
The trial will continue into next week with defence lawyers and final submissions with the judge and jury retiring to consider their verdict until the first week of October.
They could decide to uphold the sentence, clear them completely or rule that they were "in someway involved" but that it cannot be proved and reduce the sentence considerably - possibly freeing them immediately as they have served four years already.
Knox's father has already said the "prosecution case is falling apart" and he is "hopeful of taking Amanda home" with her mother and family also due to arrive later this week for the closing stages of the appeal.
Meredith, from Coulsdon, Surrey, had only been in Italy for two months before she was brutally murdered and Knox and Sollecito were jailed in December 2009.
A third defendant, small-time drug dealer Rudy Guede, an immigrant from the Ivory Coast, was also jailed in connection with the brutal killing.
He was handed a 30-year sentence for murder and sexual violence following a fast-track trial in October 2008 which was later cut to 16 years.



Prosecutors said they had ''an ace up their sleeve'' but refused to reveal any details, although their claims were dismissed by defence lawyers.

Dear me! Where have we heard that before? And what kind of respect for the law, and justice, does it show to withold evidence?

This is really bad. I don't know if they did or not, but the investigation was obviously a cock up, and this just will not do.
I am still a trifle worried about the DNA on the bra clasp because it can only have gotten there by Sollecito touching it, but since they can't test it again, whose word do we have that it was his in the first place?

Thing is, there are any number of non-sinister reasons for it to be there?

Yes. I hadn't thought of that.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/prosecution-attack-knox-appeal-100220420.html

An Italian prosecutor is firing back at independent forensic experts who reviewed - and trashed - the DNA evidence used to convict American student Amanda Knox of murder.
Manuela Comodi was wrapping up the prosecution case in the appeals trial of Knox and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito.
The prosecution is asking the appeals court to uphold their conviction, insisting they killed Meredith Kercher, a British student who was Knox's housemate, in 2007.
The DNA review found the evidence unreliable and possibly contaminated, significantly weakening the prosecution's case.
Comodi maintained the evidence can stand. Defending the original investigation, she held a bra in court to show how it was cut from Kercher's body.
Knox and Sollecito deny any wrongdoing.

How on earth can it stand? From a few weeks back;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8658035/Amanda-Knox-appeal-DNA-evidence-to-be-rejected.html

Amanda Knox appeal: DNA evidence to be rejected
Critical DNA evidence used to convict Amanda Knox of the murder of her British flatmate, Meredith Kercher will be rejected by two forensic scientists as the American's appeal against her conviction reaches a key phase.

By Nick Squires, Rome5:10PM BST 24 Jul 2011
Professors Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti damning dismissal of the DNA evidence used to convict Miss Knox at the end of a year-long trial has given the 24-year-old American student new hope that she could be acquitted and released from jail as early as September.
Knox was sentenced to 26 years in prison for the murder and sexual assault of Miss Kercher. Tomorrow's hearing is the start of a key week for Knox of Seattle. The report, a copy of which has been obtained by The Daily Telegraph, questions the reliability of two vital pieces of evidence - the presumed murder weapon, a knife found in the kitchen of Knox's Italian boyfriend, and a strap torn from Miss Kercher's bra.
During the trial, prosecutors said that the blade of the knife bore Miss Kercher's DNA material, while the handle bore that of Knox.
In their report, the forensics experts, both from La Sapienza University in Rome, said the DNA material found on the blade was so small that it could not reliably be tested.

Another key part of the prosecution case was that the bra strap carried DNA from Raffaele Sollecito, 26, Knox's former boyfriend, who was also convicted of murder and given the slightly lesser sentence of 25 years in jail.

But the review found that there was a likelihood that the DNA material on the bra strap had been "contaminated" because it had lain on the floor of Miss Kercher's bedroom for six weeks before being collected by police officers.
"It cannot be excluded that the obtained results derived from environmental contamination," the report concluded.
International procedures and protocols were not followed by the police who collected evidence at the crime scene.
Dr Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist and DNA expert, told CBS Television at the weekend that it was very easy to contaminate DNA evidence.
"You are breathing over the object...dandruff, hair, anything can contaminate an object. It will confuse the results."

"The problem is, there were very few cells on the alleged murder weapon and if you do the routine DNA procedure, it doesn't work - either you get no results or you get DNA fragments below a certain threshold.
"You really need to use special procedures called high sensitivity testing or low copy number, and that was not done in this case."
He said the review represents Knox's strongest hope yet of an acquittal.
"I think there's more than a glimmer of hope. This piece of evidence (the knife) links Knox to Kercher and if you throw out that evidence, the case is gone. She'll be coming home."
Miss Kercher, of Coulsdon, Surrey, was found half-naked, with her throat slit, in the hillside cottage she shared with Knox and two Italian women, in Nov 2007.
She was on an exchange year from Leeds University to study in the Umbrian hill town, which attracts thousands of foreign students each year.

I have just watched the film, and the case was compelling. But the DNA Evidence was crap. No DNA of Knox was found, and only the one partial finger print of Sollecito some six weeks later. Very odd if you consider the violence of the crime.
No blood on the knife, but some other substance of Meredith's DNA, which is hardly surprising since it originally belonged. to the household. Gedes' DNA was found all over the place

The Prosecutor was later found guilty of abuse of power, and given a suspended sentence.

I don't know if they are innocent, but it is a very unsafe conviction. Where have we heard this before?

I admit I hadn't paid that much attention to it, Sabot, till I saw a documentary about it on one of the crime channels.

Now, I can't say I greatly took to Ms Knox - but you can't find people guilty just because you don't like them. Well, you shouldn't anyway...

And I disliked the prosecutor equally, if not more. Another grandstanding windbag with one eye on the headlines. And when he starting banging on about his 'theories' and 'thesis' it was the last straw...

I never, ever want to hear LE using 'theories' about crimes ever, ever again. I like boring, simple things like evidence and proof.

Like you, I don't know if they are guilty or innocent - I suspect Ms Knox at least is innocent, having been convicted due to being irritating.

No way was it a sound verdict, though.

Perhaps it is a Latin thing, Bonny. All these gut instincts over lunch. To me it depends on how embarrassed The Italian Judiciary will feel about their crap DNA Scientists.
But then I have never been particularly impressed with DNA Evidence alone. It just isn't good enough. It could well be one day, but not yet.

No, I don't like the spoiled little brat either, but that doesn't make her a murderer. But then I don't think Sollecito has been proved to be involved either.

A decision on the appeal is due later today:


http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16081477

Live Blog: Amanda Knox Appeal Decision Due

9:39am UK, Monday October 03, 2011

A judge is due to rule later if Amanda Knox's appeal against a conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher is successful.

I haven't got a clue whether she is guilty or not, but I'm sick of hearing about her---what about Meredith Kercher, who hardly gets a look in, SHE was brutally murdered and the press hardly mention her.

I agree, Rhodes.

I hadn't paid that much attention to it till I saw a programme about it on one of the crime channels, and I will be honest, I was horrified that Knox and her partner had been convicted.

Knox isn't the most likeable of people - but there was nothing resembling evidence against either of them.

The prosecutor was a fat, smug, lump, spouting his 'thesis' about Americans and wierd sex - it was all horribly familiar.

Look at the hot air and bombastic nonsense he has been spouting this week - he would be kicked out of a UK courtroom if he play-acted like that.

He seemed to have pointed his finger at those two, and cut a deal with the third one convicted in return for a lighter sentence.

Meredith seems to have been very low on his list of priorities, except as a character in his 'thesis'.

Amanda Knox and her partner have both been cleared. More details when things become clearer.

Many thanks, Pedro - I've been trying to follow it live, it seems they have both been completely cleared?

You welcome my friend, so it seems.

Tony has a full report on the proceedings:

http://thehoundingofthemccans.blogspot.com/?zx=73c0df4348a43f58

Well done, Tony.

Interesting to watch the tantys going on over this verdict in pitchforkerland.

Why on earth do they assume that, just because the police say someone DONE IT, it's true?

Why on earth are foreign cops always good and UK cops always bad?

Why on earth do they think convicting innocent people and letting the guilty go free is any kind of justice?

I swear their brains are wired up the wrong way round.

I agree with lily, bb1.

An excellent piece:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/amanda-knox-meredithkercher

Amanda Knox: police under fire over botched investigation
Investigation into the murder of British student Meredith Kercher was, according to a lawyer, a 'ship that never changed course.

The investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher was, in the words of one of Amanda Knox's lawyers, a "ship that never changed course".

The appellants' counsel maintained, as they had at the trial, that the explanation of what happened in Perugia's Via della Pergola on that winter's night in 2007 was actually perfectly simple.

A man known to be a petty criminal, Rudy Guede, a drifter from Ivory Coast, broke in, either before or after Kercher returned from a quiet meal with her friends. He took advantage of the situation to try to rape her – a not uncommon occurrence, criminologists say – and, when she put up a vigorous struggle, he slashed her throat.

But, by the time it was discovered that Guede had left evidence of his presence all over the bedroom in which the British student bled to death, the investigation had already set off on a quite different route. Giuliano Mignini, one of Perugia's most senior prosecutors, had ordered the arrest of Knox, Sollecito and a third man, Diya "Patrick" Lumumba, the Congolese owner of a bar in the city where Knox worked when she was not studying at Perugia's university for foreigners.

What is more, he had a dramatically newsworthy theory to explain the murder: it was the outcome of a bizarre sex game involving the three detainees and the victim which she had resisted. This version was partly supported by a statement that Knox made four days after the discovery of the crime following a lengthy overnight interrogation in which, she told the court , "I wasn't just stressed and pressurised; I was manipulated."

Instead of dropping their theory, however, the investigators simply replaced Lumumba with Guede and pressed ahead full steam. This despite the fact that they were unable to find any forensic evidence directly linking Knox to the scene of the crime.

Inside Kercher's bedroom, there were none of her fingerprints or footprints and not a trace of her DNA. The same was true of Sollecito – or rather, it was, until 46 days after the first inspection of the crime scene when the victim's bra clasp all of a sudden came to light.

Sollecito's lawyer remarked on Friday that this was a remarkable coincidence: the very night before, a programme had been broadcast on Italian television in which Sollecito's father had highlighted some of the weaknesses in the prosection case, eliciting from the presenter a remark that, if that was correct, "someone is going to have to pay".

Will that happen now that an appeal court has overturned the original verdict? Monday night's decision was a devastating one for the investigators.

There were two forms of acquittal open to the judges. They could have freed Knox and Sollecito on the grounds that there was insufficient proof of their guilt – an outcome similar to the Scottish law verdict of "not proven". But, instead, they chose to acquit them entirely. In the first place, their decision raises very serious questions about Mignini, who oversaw the investigation and led for the prosecution at the trial. An intensely controversial figure, he was himself facing trial for malpractice at the time Guede's role in the crime was discovered.

Critics of his handling of the case have long argued that this may have conditioned his refusal to drop the charges against the two young lovers and let go of the sex-game theory. Accusations had been laid against him over his handling of a strand of the so-called "Monster of Florence" serial killing mystery that he had woven from an even more bizarre thesis involving the entanglement of a Satanist coven made up of otherwise respectable people.

Mignini was tried and convicted, but not suspended from office. He is appealing against his conviction.

Not the least of the queries posed by Monday night's verdict is how any legal system can allow a man in Mignini's position to continue wielding immense power over the lives of others.

Most of the other questions concern the Italian police. Steve Moore, an FBI agent who has closely followed the case and became persuaded of Knox and Sollecito's innocence, says the American student's overnight interrogation was an aberration in terms of police practice known in his agency as "tag-teaming" and ideally suited to obtain a predetermined result.

"If you're trying to determine facts and truth, you want your suspect clear, lucid and awake," he wrote in a study of the case. "If you want to coerce your suspect into saying what you want them to say, you want them disoriented, groggy and confused."

Less obviously serious, but perhaps more internationally relevant, is what the Amanda Knox case has to say about Italian forensic science methods. The other key piece of evidence in the case was the knife, found in Sollecito's kitchen, which the investigators identified as the murder weapon.

Not surprisingly, it had traces of the young Italian's DNA and that of his girlfriend. They probably used it to prepare food. But, in a sensational twist to the inquiry, police scientists claimed to have established that a trace of Kercher's DNA was on it too.

Yet, according to two Rome university professors appointed by the court to review the evidence, the traces were too faint to sustain such a devastating conclusion: "unreliable in as much as [they were] not supported by scientifically validated analytic procedures", they said in their damning report.

Accusations had been laid against him over his handling of a strand of the so-called "Monster of Florence" serial killing mystery that he had woven from an even more bizarre thesis involving the entanglement of a Satanist coven made up of otherwise respectable people.

Any of this starting to sound familiar? Anyone interested in total b*lls'-ups by the police should read up on the 'Monster of Florence' case.

Not only were a succession of innocent men accused - and convicted - because of these lurid 'theories', people lost their lives because the real Monster carried on killing while wrongly-accused men were in jail.

I despair on occasions. It seems that any old person will do. Evidence becomes irrelevant while a killer could be at large. Just stitch up someone.

Meredith's DNA on the knife wasn't even blood, which is hard to believe if she was stabbed so many times. How did they wash off the blood and still leave some other of Meredith's DNA? Probably because it was only used in both kitchens to prepare food.

Personally, I formed a relatively bad impression of Amanda Knox, but then I suspect that I was meant to. Just as I was meant to in the case of The McCanns. My bad. This Media hype has got to stop. Too many people pay attention to the likes of Pat Brown and Nancy Grace.

Fortunately, no one pays any attention to Bret. He is a nasty little arsewipe with a penchant for extremely bad language.

PS. Excuse my French.