Knox Appeal: DNA Comes Under The Spotlight

A passing thought- both Italy and Portugal were Fascist states, where the law presumed you were guilty first? I did think Italy, which has been fascist-free since 1945 had a better law system, maybe I am wrong. However, though I do not think Knox and boyfriend actually took part in the murder, I do feel that they know more than they have ever let on about. Perhaps what was set up that night was a foursome that went hideously wrong? Just my own thoughts, but to me it isn't just the prosecution's tactics that stink, so do those of Knox and friend. My biggest stumbling block re her total innocence is her blatant changing of her story - as least 3 time, as I remember? LL

It's worth reading the background to it all, LL - the Italian police were playing bad cop/worse cop with her, and at that time she didn't understand Italian.

My own feeling? As usual, it's simple - it was a robbery that went wrong, and those two idiots were wandering around with a few drinks on board and possibly a bit stoned as well.

It didn't actually dawn on them what had happened due to them not being any too alert, man.

They had no reason to kill Meredith, unless you start dreaming up lurid 'theories'.

The police and prosecutor would have been better employed asking Guede what actually happened, instead of cutting deals with him so his thirty year sentence for murder was cut to sixteen years.

Her accusations against Lumunba worry me, plus the fact that her story didn't coincide with Sillecito at one point. He said that she wasn't at his flat, and she says that she was.

However, the Conviction was decidedly unsafe. Fascists? Who knows. Even Britain has it's worrying convictions. Too much of the gut instincts. And Detectives should not be subjected to political pressure to solve a case.

Meanwhile, criminals are just getting smarter. DNA has done that.

I can't say I greatly like Knox or Sillecito, but that doesn't make them killers. Guede is another matter entirely, but he seems to be almost forgotten in all the hoopla:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher

Rudy Guede, a resident of Perugia, was convicted on 28 October 2008 of the sexual assault and murder of Kercher. His fast-track conviction was upheld, and he is now serving a sentence of 16 years, reduced after he incriminated Raffaele Sollecito, an Italian student, and Amanda Knox, an American

He admits to being a rapist and murderer - does anyone think he would hesitate to incriminate innocent people to get his sentence cut in half?

ETA, he was originally sentenced to thirty years. Sixteen years for rape and murder? That's light, even by UK standards.

bb1 wrote:It's worth reading the background to it all, LL - the Italian police were playing bad cop/worse cop with her, and at that time she didn't understand Italian.

My own feeling? As usual, it's simple - it was a robbery that went wrong, and those two idiots were wandering around with a few drinks on board and possibly a bit stoned as well.

It didn't actually dawn on them what had happened due to them not being any too alert, man.

They had no reason to kill Meredith, unless you start dreaming up lurid 'theories'.

The police and prosecutor would have been better employed asking Guede what actually happened, instead of cutting deals with him so his thirty year sentence for murder was cut to sixteen years.

That is probably about it, Bonny. Guede was probably encouraged to implicate other people because The Italian Police needed a Foreigner to be involved, but in the end Guede did try to say that they didn't do it.

Perhaps Knox and Sollecito did arrive at the house, and then shot off in a state of panic at what they found. But there is no way that those two could have been involved without leaving something behind.

Here's the thing; Guede is undeniably guilty of assaulting and murdering Meredith.

But courtesy of the prosecutor and sections of the Italian police - he is only serving sixteen years.

How on earth is that justice for the death of a young girl?

Did he act alone? Who knows - and I doubt if we will ever know now.

I am heart-sorry for Meredith's family; I cannot imagine what is going through their minds. It's clear from what little they have said so far that they realise the original verdict was plain and simply wrong.

And thanks to that showboating prosecutor, the one person who is known to be guilty of raping and murdering their daughter has got what is, IMO, little more than a slap on the wrist for a heinous crime.

What kind of justice is that?

But Guede didn't actually admit to cutting Meredith's throat, did he? Although who else could have nipped in and done it while he was sitting on the lavatory might beg a question.

Sixteen years? Very odd. Knox and Sollecito got 25 and 26 years. How does that compute? Guede certainly appears to have been offered a deal of some kind. Or else The Prosecutor thinks he didn't actually do it.
The whole thing stinks. One might be thankful for The Internet.

I swear that the prosecutor is somehow related to Gonc:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/03/giuliano-mignini-knox-prosecutor-conspiracy

Giuliano Mignini: Knox prosecutor who believes he is the conspiracy victim
Magistrate in Meredith Kercher murder case is himself waiting to find out whether he will be jailed for abuse of office


reddit this
Tom Kington in Perugia
guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 October 2011 21.17 BST
Article history


Giuliano Mignini and Amanda Knox at her appeal hearing over the murder of Meredith Kercher. Photograph: Giuseppe Bellini/Getty

When an American woman marched up to prosecutor Giuliano Mignini last week in court and yelled "You are evil" at him, it was indicative of how the balding, avuncular magistrate has enraged supporters of Amanda Knox like no other person connected to the case.

The Perugia-born father of four ran the investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher from the moment he arrived at the murder scene on 2 November 2007 to confer with local police and forensic investigators who had come from Rome.

His defenders say his conclusions about Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were validated by a variety of pre-trial, trial and appeal judges, not least Italy's supreme court, which ruled that Rudy Guede did not murder Kercher alone when it confirmed the Ivory Coast born drifter's sentence for Kercher's murder.

But his American detractors have claimed his investigation was a "railroad job from hell", starting from the moment he questioned Knox for hours without a lawyer, coaxing her into naming an innocent man, Patrick Lumumba, as the likely murderer, to his suggestion that Knox and Sollecito's slaying of Kercher was inspired by the occult.

The criticisms will have come as no surprise to a man who has strongly believed for years that opponents were secretly plotting his downfall.

Just before the final summing up in the Knox appeal began, Mignini discussed his handling of an older case, the "Monster of Florence" serial killer, and his belief that his investigation of the 1985 death of a freemason, Francesco Narducci, that he linked to the case was mysteriously blocked.

"I have felt under attack ever since I investigated Narducci," he told the Guardian. "It all started there."

The 16-month sentence he received for abuse of office last year after he ordered unauthorised wiretaps during the Monster investigation was a trumped-up charge that fit the pattern of persecution, he has argued.

Mignini continues to work as he awaits his appeal, which starts on 22 November.

Mignini has claimed Douglas Preston, the US novelist who challenged Mignini's theories about the Monster of Florence, is masterminding a US press campaign against him over his handling of the Knox case. "It's all Preston," he said.

So it was unsurprising that Mignini should add a touch of conspiracy theory to his summing up in the Knox appeal, claiming that "our judicial system has been subjected to a systematic denigration by a well-organised operation of a journalistic and political nature".

======================

If anyone wants to read up on how to REALLY foul up a police investigation, I recommend the Monster of Florence story.

The above lunatic, and others, succeeded in accusing - and jailing - various innocent people of being the killer.

And meanwhile, the serial killer carried on killing.

I read 'The Monster of Florence' when it came out - it showed a total travesty of justice. And, yes, Mignini's whole attitude and conduct of the murders was as badly orchestrated as Amaral's in Portugal. LL

This is long, but well worth a read:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627

I hadn't realised that Knox's friends took care of Number One ASAP:

On November 2nd, Knox's callowness caught up to her. As soon as Kercher's corpse was discovered, the two Italian roommates called their lawyers. Kercher's British friends were even more cautious: Most of them fled the country, returning to the U.K

Probably a wise move, given the events to come.

And as for the prosecutor:


He detected Satan's influence as early as 2001, when he became a central figure in the Monster of Florence serial-killer case. Mignini proposed that the suicide of a Perugian doctor was actually a murder committed by a satanic cult, practicing since the Middle Ages, that demanded human organs for their Black Masses. He later accused a hostile journalist of satanism and was convicted of abusing his office. In the early stages of the Kercher investigation, Mignini suggested that the victim had been slaughtered during a satanic ritual, but in his closing argument, he only went so far as to refer to Knox as a sex-and-drug-crazed "she-devil."

Another nutjob, sadly one in a position of authority.

The big problem I have with all of this is that, whereas I don't believe Knox or her boyfriend actually killed Meredith, I cannot reconcile her conflicting statements. My own feeling is that they know what happened; and that they have got away with it. I can't see the US allowing Italy to extradite Knox if the prosecution appeal overturns the lower court's decision. In all of this hoohaa, the media frenzy in Italy when she was released, the media at Heathrow, and the barrage of spotlights at Seattle airport, where did anyone see a moment of thought for Meredith, her parents, her siblings? No, there were lots of comments about how much the Knox family had expended on all this, houses remortgaged etc - but silence on the cost to the Kerchers, do the media imagine they are rich? Oh, she was mentioned, briefly! Is their loss so little compared to 4 years in a jail? They will never see Meredith again, Knox's parents are the lucky ones in all this. I will say that I do not agree with the setting up of Knox hate sites, but that seems to be the norm these days.

IMO, Meredith and her family are victims of this prosecutor too, LL. For four years, the Kercher family were fobbed off with an 'easy' solution to the murder of their daughter.

This is well worth a read:

http://gmancasefile.blogspot.com/2011/06/interrogation-that-never-was.html

Quote:



The Inquisition Amanda Knox experienced in Perugia was no more legally or morally defensible than the Salem Witch Trials. No rational person should believe that the results of what she went through are reliable evidence.

Quote:

THE 40-HOUR INTERROGATION WEEK:

How many hours do you work a week? If you’re like almost everybody, you work 40 hours in five days. In the five days after the murder of Meredith Kercher, Amanda Knox was interrogated by detectives for 43 hours. Think about that for a minute. That’s not a number in dispute. 43 hours of sitting at a table being badgered by questions from detectives in five days. 8 hours a day for an entire work week. In a foreign country. In a foreign language.

THE ALL-NIGHTER:

Of even greater ignominy are the last eight hours of the interrogation. This took place from 10:30 p.m. until 6:00 a.m. All night. Why would detectives schedule an interrogation overnight? Detectives are for the most part different from other policemen in that their regular schedule is 8a-5p or 9a-5p or something similar. Sure, they get called out in the middle of the night, but all things equal, unless you are in a department like NYPD or LAPD where a skeleton crew covers the evening shift; normal schedules for detectives are not overnight.

But that night, Amanda was interrogated all night. And by not just one or two detectives, but by a dozen (12) detectives. Again, the police not only do not dispute this, but they have entered this evidence into court. Perugia has a population of approximately 165,000 people. I live in a town of 100,000 and there are less than ½ a dozen detectives to cover the city, much less work an all-night shift. Perugia had to call in resources from Rome to help that night. It was not a spontaneous interrogation. It was pre-planned, and pre-planned to be an all-nighter.

Why interrogate all night? There are few legitimate reasons:

· It’s a rapidly unfolding case where lives are at risk, such as a bombing spree
· It’s the only time the suspect is available
· There is a deadline

If you are going to have 12 detectives available all night for an interrogation, you need to let them know well in advance. You need to schedule them, to change their days off, etc. You have to pay them overtime. In the real world, 12 detectives all night is something that has to be signed off by higher-ups. What does this tell us? It tells us the interrogation was NOT a rapidly unfolding case where lives were at risk—they planned this interview well in advance, and INTENTIONALLY overnight. They knew Amanda was available all day (as they had interviewed her for 35 hours in the past four days). There was no deadline. The lead detective in the case, Giobbi, (who has since been sentenced to prison for abuse of the rights of people he was investigating) had already said they “knew” Amanda was the murderer by this point. So they did not believe there was a murderer on the loose “out there.” (And yet there was).

No, the reason they interrogated Amanda all night was to break her. Not get the truth, not get answers, not make Perugia safer; but to break her so that she would say what they wanted her to say.

They used a technique that I unfortunately became aware of while serving overseas in counter-terrorism. We used to call it “tag-teaming”. I am aware of its use by intelligence/law enforcement officers of other countries. It takes dozens of operatives/officers to make it work. Two officers are assigned for approximately an hour at a time to the suspect. Their prime responsibility is simply to keep the person awake and agitated. They do this for only an hour, because it takes a lot out of the detectives. After an hour, a fresh pair of “interrogators” come in. Again, the questions they ask are secondary to their main task—keep the person awake and afraid. By tag-teaming every hour, the interrogators remain fresh, energetic and on-task. The suspect, however, becomes increasingly exhausted, confused by different questions from dozens of different interrogators, and prays for the interrogation to end. In extreme cases, people can become so disoriented that they forget where they are. Interrogation such as this for more than four days has resulted in death.


I doubt if Knox knew what she was saying, or why - or cared. She just wanted it to stop.

It's a violence-free form of torture.

And that blogger is not some cissy liberal; he is a former FBI agent.

Yet the same police and prosecutor had no problem cutting a deal with Guede and giving him a very light sentence for a heinous crime.

They no more cared about Meredith than they did about Amanda.

Detectives called in from Rome, eh? Like the PJ Thugs called in from Lisbon to beat up Leonor Cipriano. And both of them kept awake all night.
What is it with these people? Bloody bullies who couldn't detect their way out of a onion sack, that's what. Probably spent too long at University learning psychology.

Brit Police Officer get sent to prison and sacked for this sort of carry on. They don't get suspended sentences and then put back on the job.

Very familiar, isn't it?

The lead detective in the case, Giobbi, (who has since been sentenced to prison for abuse of the rights of people he was investigating) had already said they “knew” Amanda was the murderer by this point.

bb1 wrote:Very familiar, isn't it?

The lead detective in the case, Giobbi, (who has since been sentenced to prison for abuse of the rights of people he was investigating) had already said they “knew” Amanda was the murderer by this point.

Yes, I saw that, Bonny. Did he get a Suspended Sentence as well? Are they so short of actual Detectives? Or perhaps you need to be bent to get the job in the first place.

I am sorry to see this:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3862188/Meredith-Kercher-family-are-set-to-sue-Amanda-Knox-for-8million.html

Meredith Kercher family are set to sue Amanda Knox for £8million

By NICK PARKER
Published: Today
Add a comment (64)


FREED Amanda Knox faces being sued for £8million by relatives of murdered Brit student Meredith Kercher.
Meredith's family are appalled at Knox's plans to make big-money media deals after being cleared by an Italian appeal court. The Kerchers are planning fresh legal moves against American Knox, 24, now back home in Seattle after spending four years in prison.


Knox, her ex Raffaele Sollecito, 27, and drifter Rudy Guede, 24, were told to pay the Kerchers $12million (£7.7million) when they were convicted. That was put on hold, then axed when Knox and Sollecito were acquitted.

But Meredith's family, of Coulsdon, Surrey, are troubled by inconsistencies in the pair's stories. Their lawyer is preparing a case, and Meredith's sister Stephanie, 28, said: "If he can't find proof against them, he would have to find two other people as it is based on others being there with Guede." Knox's family remortgaged their homes to pay her £1.7million legal bill. An insider said: "They could never have paid $12million damages, but that will change with Amanda's book, TV and film deals. She'll have the money."

Meredith, 21, had her throat cut at the home she shared with Knox in Italy in 2007.

n.parker@the-sun.co.uk


I really do hope something has got lost in translation, or misunderstood by the Sun.

It shows the Kerchers in a truly awful light...

"If he can't find proof against them, he would have to find two other people as it is based on others being there with Guede."

Any particular two people in mind, or will a couple of strangers off the street fit the bill?

As for..

She'll have the money

Oh, I am sure being in an Italian jail, facing life imprisonment for a crime you haven't committed, is everyone's idea of a great way to make money.

Would the Kerchers not be better advised to turn their wrath on the prosecutor who concocted this nonsense with the help of their daughter's admitted murderer, Guede, who cut a deal to get a ridiculously light sentence?

I really hope that report is not accurate.

Watch the video in today's Daily Mail. It is a horror story of incompetence and corruption.

I also hope that this story is inaccurate, but I can't see The Kerchers having much chance.

Daily Mail Video.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047158/Amanda-Knox-Raffaele-Sollecito-reunite-Christmas.html#comments

I freely admit - I have zero interest in Ms Knox's personal life, Sabot.

I really hope the Kerchers do NOT go down this route; they seem to be forgetting that the only reasons Ms Knox and her partner were in the dock and jail to begin with were botched, sloppy, police work, and the prosecutor making a deal with the person who DID kill their daughter.

Are they really pinning their hopes of getting money out of a young woman who was falsely accused and jailed, on a drug-dealing murderer? I can see sympathy for them rapidly evaporating if they go ahead with this.

I am trying to be kind at the moment, but my sympathy is feeling a bit dented just now.
Although this does not reflect on my sympathy for Meredith. But who would want to punish two people who were wrongfully accused and locked up for four years? And then left with horrendous legal costs.

Personally I think they would have more chance of suing The Italian Judiciary.
So they believed in Italian Justice. So did Amanda and Raphaele.

The story in the Sun may not have been accurate, thankfully - it appears the article has now been removed.

Look who is right in there with her pitchfork:

Re: Kerchers suing Knox for 8million!
AnnaEsse Today at 6:31 pm

That is all very odd. I hope the Kerchers are suing her and for wrongful death.

What, not the drug dealer who has admitted murdering Meredith, and only named the other two to get his sentence halved by the prosecutor?

Strange idea of justice these people have.

I told you already, Silly. They don't care about Evidence. The fact that it is perfectly possible for a lone man to stab someone that many times is of no interest to them. And he could well have held her hands with just one of his.

I don't really want to go into the Sexual Assault. For obvious reasons.

It's actually quite scarey to get these reminders that they work at the level of, Burn the witch! Hang 'em high!

I am curious to know which country they intend to sue her in?