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Five dead in shooting involving UK car in France

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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:36 pm

The UK is less reserved:

http://news.sky.com/story/981484/france-shooting-bullet-ridden-bmw-removed

IMo, they were targeted either by Middle East nutters or Breivik sympathiser nutters.

Mr al Hilli had been working as a freelance engineer for Guildford-based Surrey Satellite Technology after fleeing Saddam's Iraq, neighbours said.

Whatever the reason, there is never, ever an excuse. It breaks my heart to think of a British family, on holiday in a beautiful part of France, being massacred.

Those poor, poor children - and the idiot police not not finding the little one under her mum for eight hours.

I don't have the words. And yes, I would bring back the death penalty for whoever did that.
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:40 pm

The couple's four-year-old daughter, named locally as Zeena, was discovered alive hiding under her dead mother's skirt several hours after police arrived on scene.
She told police how she was so terrified she 'could not tell the difference between the good guys and bad guys'. A passing cyclist was also killed, leading police to believe he may have been shot as he witnessed the 'hit'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198777/Lake-Annecy-shooting-French-Alps-Girl-4-ALIVE--murdered-father-named-Saad-Al-Hilli.html#ixzz25jSEHfW7

The survivors from Breivik said the same thing.
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Post  lily Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:45 pm


The survivors from Breivik said the same thing.


Oh dear God. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:53 pm

I pray to God it isn't, Lily, but the survivors from Brievik all said they couldn't tell who was good and who was bad.
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Post  lily Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:20 pm

The poor souls, Bonny. It all seems so unimaginable and yet, it has happened.
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Post  bb1 Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:09 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/982705/french-police-stand-firm-in-face-of-questions

French Police Stand Firm In Face Of Questions

Martin Brunt
Crime Correspondent
More from Martin | Follow Martin on Twitter

Anyone expecting details of police progress in the Alps murder investigation must have been sorely disappointed.

The authorities do things differently here ... it was a press conference, but not as we know it.

In France the public clearly has no right to information about how well or otherwise the police are doing in their hunt for the killers.

And that might explain why, in three media briefings since the murders, neither the public prosecutor nor the detectives have made any plea for the public's help.

No witness appeal, no call for CCTV footage, no hotline for information that might help solve one of the country's most horrific and high-profile murders.

Many legitimate questions were dismissed with a perfunctory "I'm not going to answer that".

One reporter - the public's representative, after all - was slapped down with: "Why are you asking me this question?"

Prosecutor Eric Maillaud, an otherwise charming and affable man, said there would be no more press conferences for now and would journalists please stop ringing his mobile. Someone important might be trying to get through.

He said he and his colleagues needed to maintain "judicial secrecy" to avoid prejudicing the investigation.

We heard a lot of that in Portugal five years ago when Madeleine McCann vanished from the family's holiday apartment.

It was even more frustrating there ... to the Portuguese authorities a press conference was an alien concept.

And when they were badgered into holding one, it developed into a farce with virtually everyone's question left unanswered.

So let's be grateful for the odd titbit that was thrown to the hungry hack-pack at the latest briefing.

Having earlier dismissed our revelation that the victims had each been shot twice in the head, Mr Maillaud confirmed that it was indeed true.

Such a clinical and methodical murder once again raised the theory of a professional hit, something the prosecutor has been keen to play down.

In the UK the public is regularly urged to provide information to help solve major investigations.

British cops treat the public as so many more "eyes and ears".

Frustratingly, Surrey police have taken their lead from the French and told us even less about their role in searching the victims' home and interviewing their relatives on behalf of the Gallic investigators.

In the briefest of statements the assistant chief constable said they were supporting the French police, they will support the victims relatives and had sent family liaison officers to France.

And no questions thank you very much for coming goodbye.

----------------

Let's hope it improves on failing to notice there was a survivor for eight hours.
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Post  Sabot Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:18 pm


Let's hope that Martin Brunt learns to shut his big mouth. He did enough damage in The McCann Affair with leaks from The Police.
Sarcastic Barstard. Who the f*ck does he think he is?

Sorry, not going to blame The Gendarmes for failing to notice that small child. I expect that they are already blaming themselves.
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Post  bb1 Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:32 pm

You're right, Sabot, I am sure they felt dreadful when they found the little girl - I actually cannot think of anything similar happening, except in horror stories.

And it's an unfortunate fact that France has, sadly, had to deal with massacres and assasinations before. They aren't going to be out of their depth in dealing with it.
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Post  Sabot Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:59 pm


No, Bonny. France isn't going to be out of it's depth. Too much practice, as you say.
The Killer didn't know that there were two children, and nor did The Gendarmes.

I honestly don't know what should be done in these circumstances where they don't want to disturb a Crime Scene. And these were very much Provincial Gendarmes. They did use a Heat Seeking Device, but the child was too small and too tangled up to be able to be separated from the other two bodies. And she was too afraid to holler.

Yep, I am defending The French Police. Most of them are very good at their jobs. And they notice far more than most people realise. I personally know this to be true.
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Post  bb1 Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

I'm not even going to guess what this is about...

http://news.sky.com/story/983064/alps-shooting-bomb-unit-at-family-home

quote:

Alps Shooting: Bomb Unit At Family Home
Roads surrounding the home of a British family shot dead in France have been cordoned off and neighbours evacuated from the area.

A bomb disposal unit has arrived at the house of a British family found shot dead in the French Alps.

Police have cordoned off two roads outside Saad al Hilli's home in Claygate, Surrey, due to "concerns" about items found in the house.

Aerial pictures showed the Royal Logistic Corps bomb squad's investigation appears to be focused on a workshop at the bottom of the garden.

Sky's Ashish Joshi, at the scene, said a Perspex sheet has also been put up outside the front door of the large, mock-Tudor property.

Surrey Police said in a statement: "We can confirm that due to concerns around items found at the address ... officers have extended the cordon surrounding the property.

"Neighbours in the immediate area are being temporarily evacuated."
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Post  bb1 Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:50 pm

...And the hounders are now smearing, oops, I mean 'speculating', about the Brit who was first on the scene.

No doubt they got bored with smearing the victims.
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Post  Pedro Silva Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:01 pm

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Post  bb1 Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:06 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/984702/alps-murders-witness-talks-of-awful-dilemma

Alps Murders: Witness Talks Of Awful Dilemma
The British man who discovered the bodies in the Alps shooting speaks of his ordeal.

The British cyclist who chanced upon the scene of a quadruple murder in the French Alps has spoken of his horror at the discovery.

Brett Martin found members of the al Hilli family shot dead in their car and their seven-year-old daughter collapsed at the side of the road.

He said his toughest choice was having to leave Zainab, who had been shot and badly beaten, so that he could get help.

"It was an uncomfortable decision," he said.

Mr Martin, from East Sussex, said that he had to leave the scene to get telephone signal so he could call for help.

"She was light so I could've done a fireman's lift and taken her on my bike," he said.

"But she had injuries and it seemed from the very low level medical training that I've had that if there's a risk of internal bleeding and wounds, dragging her along like a ragdoll over my shoulder might have killed her."

He said that he left the child in the recovery position and went for help.

Mr Martin, a former member of the RAF, said he initially believed there had been a car accident after coming across the scene while cycling in the forest.

"As I got a little bit closer a very young child stumbled out into the road. At first I thought she was just playing with a sibling, she was falling over and larking about like a child would.

"However as I approached her it was obvious that she was quite badly injured."

He added: "I've never seen people who have been shot before".

"It seemed to me just like a Hollywood film, but unfortunately it was real life.

"I thought maybe there was some crazy person in the woods. I started scanning the woods to see if there was a nutter hiding and I was going to be the next person shot."

Saad al Hilli, 50, and his dentist wife Iqbal, 47, were murdered along with her mother - named in reports as Suhaila al Allaf - in a remote spot close to Lake Annecy a week ago.

French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, 45, who is believed to have stumbled across the scene, was also shot dead.

===========

No doubt that will give Bennett's lot further excuses to smear the victims and, well, just about anyone else they feel like pointing their fingers at and 'speculating' about. mad
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Post  bb1 Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:40 am

Oh FFS!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19587311

Meanwhile, a French prosecutor has said the motive has its "origins" in the UK.

Not again! Why is he saying ANYTHING when the investigation is ongoing? The armchair defectives will have a field day of blaming the victims yet again.
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Post  bb1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:21 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9547495/French-police-cyclist-may-have-been-target-of-Annecy-slaughter.html

French police: cyclist may have been target of Annecy slaughter

A French cyclist who was shot dead alongside a British family in a massacre in the Alps may have been the "main target" of the massacre, police have suggested.

By Victoria Ward9:44AM BST 17 Sep 2012
Lt Colonel Benedict Vinnemann, who is leading the police inquiry, revealed he was considering the possibility Sylvain Mollier, the cyclist, was the real target. He was buried yesterday.
It had previously been suggested that Mr Mollier was killed because he had interrupted the killing of Saad al-Hilli, his wife and mother-in-law by a hitman.
But Lt Col Vinneman said: "Was the al-Hilli family the main target? Was it not the cyclist? Only ongoing work on the scene can answer this question clearly.
"We're talking about someone whom everybody says was a gentleman, but who's to say he did not lead a double life?"
French police were yesterday accused of “playing politics” over the Alps massacre by asserting that the origins of the case lie in the UK.

Brian Paddick, the former Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner, said that unless there was clear evidence that ruled out the other theories, it was “dangerous” to switch the focus of the investigation to this country.
“It smacked to me of more of a political decision than a professional police one,” he said.
“It was as if they did not want the reputation of France, and particularly this picturesque tourist spot, damaged by the suggestion that this could be anything to do with the French police or people in that area.”
French police investigating the deaths of Saad al-Hilli, 50, his wife Iqbal, 47, her mother Suhaila al-Allaf, 74, and a passing French cyclist in Annecy, south-eastern France, have stated that they are working on three lines of inquiry; a bitter family feud over inheritance, Mr-al-Hilli’s work as an aeronautic engineer and his Iraqi origins.
It emerged yesterday that the French investigation is being scaled back, with many of the original 120 gendarmes working on the case returning to normal duties after Eric Maillard, the chief prosecutor in Annecy, said that he was convinced the answer to the mystery lay in the UK.
Mr Paddick added: “When you do not have any clear front runner in terms of theories, you need to pursue each of the potential explanations relentlessly.”

DCI Colin Sutton, a retired detective who investigated the Levi Bellfield murders, suggested that such an approach could be short-sighted unless there was specific evidence to back it up, although he noted that the French police were unlikely to divulge too much detail about their progress.
“It seems (Mr Maillard) may have closed his mind completely to the case having its roots in France,” he said. “Unless they have any evidence to base that on, it seems a little dangerous to me.”
Mr Mollier worked for Cezus, a subsidiary of the Areva Group, specialising in zirconium metalworking for nuclear fuel containers.
The victims are believed to have been shot with a Luger P08, a distinctive weapon which was standard issue to the Swiss army and which fires distinctive 7.65mm calibre bullets.
The weapon has a capacity of eight rounds meaning that a lone gunman, who fired around 25 bullets during the massacre, would have used more than three magazines.


===============


“It was as if they did not want the reputation of France, and particularly this picturesque tourist spot, damaged by the suggestion that this could be anything to do with the French police or people in that area.”

Sounds familiar....
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Post  Sabot Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:45 pm


It sounds to me as though far more effort was made to ensure the death of the cyclist. More bullets were fired into him than the family. It has been suggested that the father was there to meet the cyclist, and as far as I can remember the body of the cyclist was found alongside the car.
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Post  bb1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:49 pm

That does make sense, Sabot.
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Post  Sabot Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:53 pm

It occurred to me that if the cyclist had come upon the shootings of the family then he would have been found a least some small distance from the car, and not that close. He would be hardly likely to cycle into the middle of a mass murder.
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Post  bb1 Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:01 pm

Again, that makes sense of the seemingly senseless, Sabot.
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Post  Sabot Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:50 pm

I am wondering if Classified Information was changing hands. Both the Father and the Cyclist appear to have have been working in highly sensitive industries.
But The French are going to be a bit careful about what they have to say about it.

By the way, that road was actually closed at one end, and sign posted as such. It might have been a beauty spot but there wasn't a lot else to see for an ordinary tourist family with two small children getting bored in the back of a car.
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Post  bb1 Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:17 pm

French cyclist 'was prime target' in Alps massacre

A Frenchman was the prime target in the French Alps massacre, not a British family, according to reports citing ballistic findings stating the cyclist was shot first.

By Henry Samuel, Paris8:27PM BST 19 Oct 2012
Briton Saad al-Hilli, one of five killed on September 5 in a remove forest car park near Lake Annecy, was outside his BMW when the attacker struck, The Daily Telegraph can also confirm for the first time.
Until now, it was assumed that the Hilli family was the prime target in the horrific murder. Mr Hilli, 50, his dentist wife Iqbal, 47, and his 74-year-old Swedish mother-in-law, Suhaila Al-Allaf, were all found dead in the family car that day.
All four adults died in blaze of automatic gunfire which also left Mr Hilli's eldest daughter, Zainab, seven, with horrific head and shoulder injuries. Her four-year-old sister, Zeena, survived, apparently by hiding under her mother's corpse on the floor of their car.
It was previously believed French cyclist Sylvain Mollier, 45, who worked at factory that supplies equipment to nuclear power plants, had stumbled on the murder scene.
Police, who have analysed different ballistic angles are now working under the assumption that Mr Mollier was shot first, according to Le Parisien. The 45-year-old French father-of-three was hit by at least five bullets.

They believe the attacker then surprised Mr Hilli who was outside the vehicle with his oldest daughter when the first shots were fired.
Annecy prosecutor Eric Maillaud on Friday vehemently denied that investigators had any idea of the order the victims were shot, calling it a "web of lies and pure invention".
However, he confirmed that it was suspected that Mr Hilli was outside the car when he was shot.
He told The Daily Telegraph that close examination of shoe prints in the mud reportedly confirmed this.
Following the provisional scenario cited by Le Parisien, Mr Hilli then desperately rushed back into his car and tried to reverse, but got stuck in the mud at the entrance to the forest.
It has been established that a British witness first on the scene found the motor still running and the doors locked.
With the Hilli family powerless to move, the gunman opened fire then approached the vehicle and opened fire.
Only once he had executed the Britons did the assailant then turn his attentions back to Mr Mollier to finish him off, according to the reported provisional scenario, as he received a second series of shots at a different angle.

They are reportedly certain that the assailant then dragged the French cyclist's body round in an arc towards the car, lying him out beside the vehicle with his arms by his sides.
Gendarmes are said to be convinced that there was only one gunman.
According to Le Parisien, they believe he displayed highly "disorderly behaviour" on the crime scene, "going from one victim to the other and going back to another one by one to finish them off".
This behaviour, one gendarme was quoted as saying, was "not consistent with the profile of a professional killer".
Mr Maillaud last night furiously denied that police were aware of the order in which the victims were killed but he would not deny that Mr Mollier's body had been moved.
He also said that police were looking for a motorbike that British RAF veteran William Brett Martin had crossed before he stumbled on the crime scene.
It was seen in the vicinity of the crime scene at around 4pm – within half an hour of the killings.

A local farmer said he saw the rider looking "unsure of the route", and struggling to manoeuvre his bike over potholed roads.
Mr Maillaud last week revealed how the girls posed for three pictures with their parents just 33 minutes before the atrocity was first reported.
The prosecutor said that there was particular interest in a bank account in the nearby Swiss city of Geneva in Mr Hilli's name.
Believed to contain around three-quarters-of-a-million pounds, it is thought to be linked to the will the Hillis were arguing about.
Aerospace engineer Mr Hilli also kept an illegal Taser defence weapon at home – suggesting that he lived in fear of attack.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9621670/French-cyclist-was-prime-target-in-Alps-massacre.html
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