Re: Political, financial turmoil in Greece

**lily** Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:45 pm

Is that what she wanted? Does she have that much anger inside of herself?

**bb1** Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:46 pm

Breaking News
‏@NewsOnTheMin
BREAKING: IMF asks that Greek PM Tsipras resign. (FOX)

WTF???????

**lily** Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:50 pm

Yes. They want someone who will do what they want?

**bb1** Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:51 pm

Owen JonesVerified account
‏@OwenJones84
Wow. Just wow. #ThisIsACoup http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/12/greek-debt-crisis-eu-leaders-meeting-cancelled-no-deal-live …

Political, financial turmoil in Greece - Page 18 CJvzzt0WIAAPrE8

Political, financial turmoil in Greece - Page 18 CJvzzt0WIAAPrE8

None other than one of the Germans that has been doing the most shouting - he's the one in the wheelchair.

**lily** Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:54 pm

Well, fancy that!! They want their own mouthpiece. Just who do those peasants, sorry Greeks think they are? They need to be told for their own good?

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:05 am

This is an absolute catastrophe.

20 new results
Guy Le Jeune ‏@GuyLeJeune 1m1 minute ago
You can take Maastricht, Nice and Lisbon and shove them. I didn't vote for totalitarianism #ThisIsACoup
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DoomLord ‏@feynman1976 1m1 minute ago
Once again #Germany attacks Europe through a weak country... #ThisIsACoup and make no mistake, it is only the beginning if we let them...

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Helpful_Noisemaker ‏@Helpful_Noisema 26s27 seconds ago
I really hope someday historians will tell us what is going on in the Germans' head, cuz right now they seem crazy. #ThisIsACoup

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:15 am

Images like this:

Political, financial turmoil in Greece - Page 18 CJv-t9TWUAAwWnw

are appearing everywhere. Oh Merkel, what the Hell have you done?

**lily** Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:17 am

Wait for the backlash when it sinks in?

**Pedro Silva** Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:52 am

My opinion is this: instead of calling names or being stubborn (Eurozone leaders / FMI), these freaks should be more worried in solving this situation, using their efforts to create a positive result, instead of wasting time and efforts talking or making accusations which are now becoming silly. both parties: Greek side.Eurozone leaders / FMI should talk less and act more, having the concern of solving this issue, which appears to a wrestling competition to see who is the strongest. this behaviour stinks.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:41 am

It's too late for that, Pedro, and the corruption in the EU is too deep. The company to which Tsipras has just handed 50 BILLION EUROS of Greek assets is run by none other than Wolfgang Schäuble - Merkel's sidekick. He's the German minister in the wheelchair, the very one that has been dictating terms to Greece.

I suspect that Varoufakis knew the PM was going to sell Greece down the river, and that is why he quit.

I now nominate Tsipras as Politician Most Likely To End Up Dangling From A Lamppost for this sell-out - I won't be surprised if civil war erupts in Greece, frankly. What's Greek for Quisling - because he's turned Greece into a German colony.

FFS, what is wrong with Germany? The Wall's barely been down a generation and they are trying to rule the rest of Europe for the third time in a century.

I am very glad the UK isn't in the eurozone and I will be voting to leave the EU in our referendum; the masks fell off Merkel and her cronies this week.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:47 am

https://twitter.com/hashtag/thisisacoup?src=hash&vertical=default&f=tweets

Andrew McC Crawford ‏@andymccc 2h2 hours ago
Sorry, folks, but Merkel sounds like the newly installed governor of a conquered state.
Day of shame.
#ThisIsACoup

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Spiros Fotis Jr.® ‏@SpirosFotisJr 1m1 minute ago
Germany #ThisIsACoup after 2 world wars that you've started u just won't stop trying...will u? Leave the European Union NOW #Gerexit

There are thousands like that.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:50 am

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/greece-wins-euro-debt-deal-democracy-loser/4155

onday 13 Jul 2015
Greece wins euro debt deal – but democracy is the loser

815 1982 3 0

After an all-night negotiation during which Greek prime minister was subjected, according to one observer, to “mental waterboarding”, there is the basis of a deal to keep Greece in the euro. As I write, the Greek side do not have a document, but we have some details.

Greece will have to implement the tough austerity measures demanded by its lenders, plus hand €50bn of assets to a privatisation fund, where sales will be used to pay down debt.

In return it will get a new, third bailout deal reportedly worth €54bn; a promise of discussions on restructuring its debt; and a bridging loan to finance the repayments it cannot make. It is this – plus the imminent reopening of the banks under an ECB emergency lending scheme – that will allow PM Alexis Tsipras to save any kind of face with his own supporters, who are fuming.

f you doubt how it might play on the Greek streets, consider the headline of Dimokratia, a conservative tabloid: “Greece in Auschwitz: Schauble attempts eurozone holocaust”.

Last night the eurozone leaders presented Greece with an ultimatum that shredded all vestiges of control the government has over the economy going forward, and reversed every law it has put through parliament since being elected with 36 per cent of the vote in January.

While Greeks vented, and the hashtag #ThisIsACoup went viral across the globe, Tsipras and his team negotiated. They knew that to have any chance of getting the deal through parliament they must free themselves of IMF involvement, resist the foreign-held privatisation fund, get some commitment to debt reprofiling and an assurance that the ECB will turn the taps of emergency lending back on to the banks.

I said last night that without these things there was no chance of getting the austerity measures through parliament. It seems this morning that each of the measures has been fudged: so the privatisation fund remains in Athens, not Luxembourg; the IMF invovement is still there but apparently muted; the debt restructuring is there but unspecified.

So I am still not certain this will pass.

To understand what happens next you have to understand that, first, the Greek centre and conservative right is so morally and organisationally shattered by its defeats in the January election and the June referendum that it cannot simply take over.

There is only a parliamentary majority if Tsipras (pictured below) leads it.

13 greece r w Greece wins euro debt deal but democracy is the loser

The rebels in his party come in two genres: the hard left of the Left Platform, whose leader Panayotis Lafazanis abstained in Saturday’s parliamentary vote and may be sidelined in the coming days; and a more organic left, known informally as the 53 group, whose MPs voted yes on Saturday but can go no further.

The Syriza newspaper Avgi spelled out the party’s approach going into the negotiations: they must accept and vote through the outcome of negotiations in order to stay in power, because the overthrow of a government by the EU is unacceptable (nor indeed possible given the parliamentary arithmetic).

The eurozone took itself to the brink last night, and we will only know for certain later whether its reputation and cohesion can survive this.

The big powers of Europe demonstrated an appetite to change the micro-laws of a smaller country: its bakery regulations, the funding of its state TV service, what can be privatised and how. Whether inside or outside the euro, many small countries and regions will draw long-term negative lessons from this. And from the apparently cavalier throwing of a last-minute Grexit option into the mix by Germany, in defiance of half the government’s own MPs.

It would be logical now for every country in the EU to make contingency plans against getting the same treatment – either over fiscal policy or any of the other issues where Brussels and Frankfurt enjoy sovereignty.

Parallels abound with other historic debacles: Munich (1938), where peace was won by sacrificing the Czechs; or Versailles (1919), where the creditors got their money, only to create the conditions for the collapse of German democracy 10 years later, and their own diplomatic unity long before that.

But the debacles of yesteryear were different. They were committed by statesmen. People who knew what they wanted and miscalculated. It was hard to see last night what the rulers of Europe wanted.

What they’ve arguably got is a global reputational disaster: the crushing of a left-wing government elected on a landslide, the flouting of a 61 per cent referendum result. The EU – a project founded to avoid conflict and deliver social justice – found itself transformed into the conveyor of relentless financial logic and nothing else.

Ordinary people don’t know enough about the financial logic to understand why this was always likely to happen: bonds, haircuts and currency mechanisms are distant concepts. Democracy is not. Everybody on earth with a smartphone understands what happened to democracy last night.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:00 am

Follow

euronewsVerified account
‏@euronews
EU doc on #aGreekment shows Ger & Fr secured 50/50 split in spending of privatisation cash for debt & investment http://bit.ly/1HpHE0M

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:06 am

I find myself in the bizarre position of agreeing with Boris Johnston:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11734869/Greece-must-rediscover-the-spirit-of-Marathon-to-burst-its-euro-shackles.html

Quote from a longer piece:

On Friday, the Germans tabled a document that is breathtaking in its candour and brutality. It marks a new departure in modern European diplomacy; indeed, at first I thought it must be a spoof. It cynically abandons the old pretence about the euro – that it was irreversible, a marriage for life. On the contrary, it turns out that divorce is very much on the cards, unless the Greeks submit.

If Greece wants to stay in the single European currency, Athens must prostrate herself in an act of doglike self-abasement that the ancients called proskynesis. If the Greeks want more of our money, says Schäuble as he waves his Glock/Schmeisser/Walther, they will have to do as follows.

First, they must simply hand over “valuable Greek assets of €50 billion” to be privatised – flogged off to decrease the debt. Who will do the privatising? Schäuble proposes that these Greek state assets – airports, electricity companies, whatever – should be surrendered to a body called the “Institution for Growth in Luxembourg”. And who is in charge of this institution, eh? Jawohl, meine Freunde! It turns out to be a front for the German KfW, the Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau, the state development bank that was set up, ironically, as part of the postwar Marshall plan to rescue the bombed-out German economy.

These Greek state assets may be tarnished, they may be indebted, but they belong to the Greek people; and now the 72-year-old Schäuble is seriously proposing that this family silver should be taken and sold by the Germans. Why the Germans? Because it is obvious from Schäuble’s proposals that he has complete contempt for the Greeks’ ability to run their own affairs.

His next two conditions are that there should be “capacity-building and depoliticizing Greek administrative tasks under hospices (sic) of the COM for proper administration of the program; (c) automatic spending cuts in case of missing deficit targets”. The arrogance is amazing. What does he mean by “capacity-building”? He means sending in natty-jacketed Eurocrats to take over the country. What does he mean by “depoliticizing”? He means telling Greek voters and politicians to get stuffed, because it is the Germans who are now running the show.

It is fitting that the draftsperson was confused about “hospices” and “auspices”. The eurozone is indeed turning into a hospice, and the dying patient is democratic self-government. That is what Germany wants Greece to do, as the price of staying in the euro. The only alternative, says Schäuble, is a “time-out” from the eurozone for at least five years: in other words, expulsion.

As the hours have passed since this document was leaked over the weekend, I have waited for the repudiation from Berlin. I had assumed that Angela Merkel would somehow distance herself from the demands of her finance minister – perhaps even issue a formal démenti. On the contrary, it has become ever clearer that this ultimatum has her support, and the support of the German government.

**Pedro Silva** Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:09 pm

bb1, I agree with you.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:49 pm

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13/how-german-media-see-new-greek-deal

Germany's largest public TV broadcaster's most popular show explains how "Greece was assigned to its place..."

Political, financial turmoil in Greece - Page 18 20150713_greek_0

Political, financial turmoil in Greece - Page 18 20150713_greek_0

**lily** Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:20 pm

Stunning. Not one shot has been fired and a country has surrendered to the Germans? Unless the Greeks vote again, to get their present PM out and re-do the Euro exit?

Is that why the finance minister took a hike because he knew that Tsipras was going to capitulate?

Last night I read a comment on ZH and I paraphrase.......Goldman Sachs sends suitcases to Tsipras.....

Whatever happened, and I am not saying the above did, he is going to be in a bad situation when he returns to Greece.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:36 pm

Yes, I personally think Varoufakis knew what was coming, Lily, and jumped clear of the wreckage.

Merkel and co may not know it yet, but they have destroyed the EU. We were all supposed to be one happy family, merrily singing Ode to Joy and waving the EU flag. Instead, she didn't even bother trying to hide the iron fist any longer - she'd be as well calling the eurozone the German Empire and the euro the Deutschmark.

IMO, there is terrible trouble coming a few days/months/years down the road - and it's her damned fault.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:43 pm

Worth reading:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-power-in-the-age-of-the-euro-crisis-a-1024714.html

From a longer piece:

'The Fourth Reich': What Some Europeans See When They Look at Germany

Following World War II, a German return to dominance in Europe seemed an impossibility. But the euro crisis has transformed the country into a reluctant hegemon and comparisons with the Nazis have become rampant. Are they fair? By SPIEGEL Staff

May 30, 1941 was the day when Manolis Glezos made a fool of Adolf Hitler. He and a friend snuck up to a flag pole on the Acropolis in Athens on which a gigantic swastika flag was flying. The Germans had raised the banner four weeks earlier when they occupied the country, but Glezos took down the hated flag and ripped it up. The deed turned both him and his friend into heroes.

Back then, Glezos was a resistance fighter. Today, the soon-to-be 93-year-old is a member of the European Parliament for the Greek governing party Syriza. Sitting in his Brussels office on the third floor of the Willy Brandt Building, he is telling the story of his fight against the Nazis of old and about his current fight against the Germans of today. Glezos' white hair is wild and unkempt, making him look like an aging Che Guevara; his wrinkled face carries the traces of a European century.
Initially, he fought against the Italian fascists, later he took up arms against the German Wehrmacht, as the country's Nazi-era military was known. He then did battle against the Greek military dictatorship. He was sent to prison frequently, spending a total of almost 12 years behind bars, time he spent writing poetry. When he was let out, he would rejoin the fight. "That era is still very alive in me," he says.

Glezos knows what it can mean when Germans strive for predominance in Europe and says that's what is happening again now. This time, though, it isn't soldiers who have a chokehold on Greece, he says, but business leaders and politicians. "German capital dominates Europe and it profits from the misery in Greece," Glezos says. "But we don't need your money."

In his eyes, the German present is directly connected to its horrible past, though he emphasizes that he doesn't mean the German people but the country's ruling classes. Germany for him is once again an aggressor today: "Its relationship with Greece is comparable to that between a tyrant and his slaves."

Glezos says that he is reminded of a text written by Joseph Goebbels in which the Nazi propaganda minister reflects about a future Europe under German leadership. It's called "The Year 2000." "Goebbels was only wrong by 10 years," Glezos says, adding that in 2010, in the financial crisis, German dominance began......more at link.

**lily** Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:37 pm

That is a great piece.

When the penny drops with the Greeks, they will not be happy one bit?

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:04 pm

I simply wouldn't like to predict what's going to happen in Greece, or the eurozone in general, Lily. Italy, Portugal and Spain - and France - are on pretty shaky ground financially, right now. I don't know if Frau Merkel thinks that, because she's grinding Greece into the dirt, they will all be too scared to say a word - she and her chums are certainly arrogant enough.

But if civil unrest kicks off in Europe - which it may well do - she isn't going to be able to control it. European mobs don't loot supermarkets for trainers, they tend to attack government buildings directly. Portugal and Spain were both Fascist fairly recently, and Italians strung up Mussolini within living memory. I see a lot of trouble ahead, and most of it IS Merkel's fault - she's demonstrated only too clearly that, far from being a union to bring love, harmony and peace, the EU is based on the strongest bullying the weakest.

Same as it ever was.....

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:18 pm

zerohedge ‏@zerohedge 3h3 hours ago
GREEK SYRIZA LAWMAKER, DEP. MINISTER CHOUNTIS RESIGNS: SPEAKER

**lily** Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:25 pm

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13/yanis-varoufakis-merkels-control-over-eurogroup-absolute-they-are-beyond-law

The above, also by ZH, is an interesting piece too.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:09 pm

Yes, it is - very revealing.

Looks like it's all coming unglued already:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13/greek-lawmakers-wont-back-deal-finnish-finmin-says-cant-agree-new-greek-loans

Is the Greek "deal" falling apart already?

New comments are coming across the wires fast and furious over the last few minutes indicating that not only is Syriza's Left Platform taking a stand against the new agreement (as expected), but also the Greek junior coalition partner. Meanwhile, Finnish FinMin Alexander Stubb (who has been a thorn in the Greek's side of late) is out with some very cautious commentary as well.

**bb1** Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:39 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/1518285/uk-may-have-to-pay-400m-towards-greek-loan

The UK may have to contribute up to £400m to a bridging loan to help save the Greek economy from collapse, Sky News has learnt.

More follows...

Why, pray tell? We're not in the eurozone - this is their mess.

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