GADDIFI TOPPLED!!!!!TRIPOLI CELEBRATING!!!!!!!!

Good morning!

Al Jazeera:

NTC says Gaddafi buried in secret grave

Burial of deposed Libyan leader, his son Mutassim and an ex-aide marked by prayers offered by his tribe, sources say.
Last Modified: 25 Oct 2011 19:08

Libya's National Transitional Council has buried deposed leader Muammar Gaddafi, his son Mutassim and a former aide at a secret location in the desert, sources tell Al Jazeera.

One of the slain strongman's nephews read a prayer at the dawn ceremony outside the city of Misurata, where the bodies had been kept in a freezer for four days of public viewing, according to the Associated Press news agency.

Al Jazeera's Hoda Hamid, reporting from Misurata, said that Gaddafi's tribe had asked for the bodies to be delivered to them and to be buried in Sirte, the former leader's hometown, in accordance with his will. The NTC refused the request.

Fighters from Misurata, which endured the bloodiest urban fighting of the war while under siege by Gaddafi's troops between February and May, took Gaddafi's body with them after capturing and killing him in Sirte on October 20.

"The NTC did not want the grave to become a shrine, so tribe members were allowed to pray over the body before it was buried, and then NTC commanders took his body into the unknown location in the desert and buried it," Hamid said. The burial is said to have taken place at 5am local time.

Our correspondent said that one of the reasons for the burial was that the body had started to decompose as a result of the door constantly being opened to allow visitors to view the body.

Son at large

While many Libyan civilians and NTC fighters welcomed Gaddafi's violent death under murky circumstances as a final moment of closure to their revolution, at least one prominent member of the former ruling family remains at large.

Saif al-Islam, Gaddafi's most prominent son, was reportedly poised to flee into Niger along with Gaddafi's former intelligence chief on Tuesday afternoon, according to a local Tuareg official from northern Niger's Agadez region who spoke with the AFP news agency.

"It appears he is being escorted by former Tuareg fighters, but I am not yet able to confirm this," the man said, on condition of anonymity. Tuareg tribesmen have previously fought as mercenaries for the Gaddafi regime.

Both Saif and Senussi are wanted for crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Court for orders they gave during the regime's crackdown against protesters beginning in February.

Ali Tarhouni, the NTC oil and finance minister, told reporters in Benghazi that Saif no longer threatened Libya. "Saif al-Islam is not a threat. His father, his army, his mercenaries have been conquered," Tarhouni said. "I don't know where he is."

Saadi Gaddafi, another prominent son, has already fled into Niger along with three generals and Mansour Dao, Gaddafi's former chief of personal bodyguards. Niger officials say they are under surveillance.

NATO's waning role

Even as Gaddafi, the ultimate target of the Libyan revolution, was laid to rest, the fate of the crucial NATO air campaign that enabled the success of the uprising remained uncertain.

NATO has said it would like to wind down the surveillance and bombing missions by the end of October, but on Tuesday, Tarhouni asked the alliance to continue its mission for another month.

Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, told reporters during a visit to Japan that the future US military role in Libya would hinge on NATO and the result of discussions within the alliance.

The United States' primary concerns in the country now were providing medical relief and controlling the spread of loose weapons, he said.

'Loyalists executed'

Libya's new leadership is also dogged by questions of abuse and due process.

New York-based Human Rights Watch on Tuesday warned of a "trend of killings, looting and other abuses" by those who had fought against Gaddafi.

The organisation said it had found 53 decomposing bodies, apparently Gaddafi loyalists, in Sirte, and that there were indications they may have been executed by revolutionary forces.

The announcement comes amid questions over the deaths of Gaddafi and his son Mutassim, who were filmed alive, though wounded, before they died.

Gaddafi appeared dazed and was bleeding from the head immediately after his capture, and an autopsy determined that his cause of death was a gunshot to the head. No autopsy was performed on Mutassi, who was filmed reclining with a bottle of water and smoking a cigarette.

Under international pressure, the NTC has said it will investigate the deaths, but the opposition has previously failed to investigate other apparent abuses, or the assassination of former rebel military chief Abdel Fattah Younis.

The 53 bodies were found on the lawn of the abandoned Mahari hotel, and some had their hands bound.

Peter Bouckaert, a researcher for HRW, said the hotel had been under the control of NTC fighters from Misrata before the killings took place.

The condition of the bodies suggested that the men had been killed between October 15 and 19, the group said. The US state department termed the report "extremely disturbing".

Gene Cretz, the US ambassador to Libya, had "raised it with the National Transitional Council today and asked them to conduct a full investigation", according to a state department spokesperson.

I will add to this that on CNN and Al Jazeera his morning Libyans interviewed said they weren't that interested or even worried about how Gadaffi met his end, they were just so happy he had gone. It would appear that all the bleating about human rights is in fact coming from outside Libya, and from at least one country whose record on treatment of prisoners etc leaves much to be desired. LL

No-one has the right to moralize to Libyans about this, from where I am sitting, LL - they are the ones who saw their loved ones tortured and jailed, or murdered, or raped, or locked in sheds and burned alive.

I have advocated the lead solution to Gaddafi from the start, so I am not going to be a hypocrite now and pretend I care.

Yes, there would have been advantages to him standing trial, but there would have been huge problems, and yet more loss of life, too - just to keep the moralizers and Guardianistas happy.

I admit it was a fairly gory end, to see unfolding almost live, but the people of Libya had to know for sure that he was dead and wouldn't threaten them ever again. Who foresaw that as a use for camera phones?

Know what I have never, ever forgotten about Lockerbie? That some of the victims were alive and conscious when they hit the ground.

I hope Gaddafi spent his last few minutes knowing the terror they felt as they hurled out of the sky.

On Al Jazeera TV they are discussing this very thing at this time; so far it seems to be that the NTC will conduct a full investigation into the matter; the Human Rights Watch representative seems quite pleased with what the NTC rep is saying and the third member of the panel seems to also be happy with what is being suggested. If this turns out top be an Inside Story segment I will post up a link as and when I find it! LL

ETA It is Inside Story, not yet upon the website, should be later this afternoon. LL

Al Jazeera Inside Story - Libya after Gadaffi: you may find at the beginning that this stops and starts. LL Reloaded, seems okay now.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/insidestory/2011/10/2011102683152848386.html

CNN/Reuters: As yet unconfirmed report that Saif al-Islam, son and heir of the late dictator, is negotiating to hand himself over to the ICC. Will update as soon as I get more news. LL

And how about this:

Gaddafi's family to sue NATO
London Mercury
Wednesday 26th October, 2011

Relatives of slain Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi will sue NATO in the International Military Court in The Hague for war crime charges, Gaddafi's family lawyer said.

'NATO helicopters opened fire on (Gaddafi's) convoy. This convoy did not pose any threat to civilians. It was an operation to eliminate the Libyan leader, planned by the North Atlantic alliance,' Marcel Ceccaldi was quoted as saying by France-based Europe1 radio station.

The lawyer also criticized the decision to display Gaddafi's corpse at a shopping centre in Misrata for four days.

Gaddafi, who ruled Libya for 42 years, died shortly after being captured alive by National Transitional Council fighters near his hometown Sirte Oct 20.

The UN human rights office as well as Russia and the US have called for a probe into the leader's killing.

Oh, you mean Saif doesn't much fancy being an ornament on the radiator grille of a pick up truck, while a thousand cell phones record the moment?

And I hope the Gaddafi clan are given the sex and travel option; they really are in no position to bleat about Yuman Rites.

Al Jazeera Live Blog:

31 min 53 sec ago

Sudan gave weapons, ammunition and other assistance to the former Libyan rebels who overthrew Muammar Gaddafi, a response to the slain leader's support for Sudan's own insurgencies, President Omar al-Bashir said on Wednesday.

Sudan, which shares a border with Libya, has accused Gaddafi of supporting rebellions in its western Darfur region and in South Sudan, which declared independence in July.

"You all know the role Libya played in destabilising Sudan and Sudan's security," Bashir told an audience in the eastern city of Kassala.

"Your support, whether it was humanitarian support, or weapons or ammunition, reached Libyan revolutionaries in Misrata, in the Western Mountains, in Benghazi, in Kufra," Bashir said.

"The forces that entered Tripoli, part of their armament and their capabilities is 100 percent Sudanese." He did not give details about what weapons were provided or how many.

2 hours 11 min ago

Gaddafi's fugitive son Saif al-Islam and former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi are proposing to hand themselves into the International Criminal Court in The Hague, a senior Libyan military official with the National Transitional Council said on Wednesday.

"They are proposing a way to hand themselves over to The Hague," Abdel Majid Mlegta told Reuters from Libya.

Saif al-Islam is wanted by the war crimes court, as was his late father. There is also a warrant out for Senussi.

Saif al-Islam has been on the run since Libyan forces overran his father's home town of Sirte at the weekend. He is thought to be somewhere near Libya's southern border with Niger.

Mlegta said his information came from intelligence sources who told him that Saif al-Islam and Senussi were trying to broker a deal to surrender to the court through a neighbouring country, which he did not name.

49 min 53 sec ago

Libyans have mixed feelings about the transitional period and beyond as the country tries to heal from the NATO-aided conflict that saw Muammar Gaddafi's ouster.

The interim government will have a clear mandate; crafting a new constitution, organising elections and paving the way for a new Libya.But in the meantime people have a long list of priorities such as safety and security, education and de-arming fighters.

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra spoke to residents in Tripoli

According to Sky breaking news, Saif has crossed into Niger.

Isn't that where the remainder of his family are, together with money?

I confess, I can't remember, Lily. I think some went to Tunisia, but I don't know where they went after that.

They were there in September, Bonny. Maybe they have moved onto somewhere else. Some went to Algeria too

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/198642.html

Gaddafi's son, Saadi, flees to Niger

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:5PM

One of the sons of Libyan fugitive ruler Muammar Gaddafi has escaped to the neighboring country of Niger, which has reportedly turned into a safe haven for members of the dictator's crumbling regime.


Niger's Justice Minister Marou Amadou said on Sunday that Saadi Gaddafi has arrived in Niger and was heading to the capital Niamey, AFP reported.

"Today, September 11, a patrol of Nigerien armed forces intercepted a convoy in which was found one of Gaddafi's sons," Amadou said.

On Saturday, reports revealed that a convoy of armored vehicles carrying a number of Libyan generals had arrived in Niger via the northern Nigerien town of Agadez a few weeks ago.

The generals then entered Burkina Faso after performing a financial transaction at a bank in Nigerien capital, the report said.

Niger has confirmed that three Gaddafi regime generals, including his air force chief, al-Rifi Ali al-Sharif, have arrived in Agadez.

Mansour Dhao, the internal security chief of the Gaddafi regime, fled to Niger nearly a week ago, according to Nigerien officials.

Niger is also hosting Gaddafi's wife, Safiya, his daughter, Aisha, and his sons, Hannibal and Mohammed.

Meanwhile, the whereabouts of Gaddafi himself continue to remain a mystery.

However, Guinea Bissau's Prime Minister Carlos Gomes Junior said on Sunday that Gaddafi would be welcomed in his country "with open arms."

MA/MB

Al Jazeera:

NATO announces end of Libya mission

Alliance agrees to end seven-month military campaign despite appeal from Libya's new leaders to stay until end of year.
Last Modified: 28 Oct 2011 15:01

NATO has formally announced the end of its military mission in Libya following a meeting of ambassadors from the alliance's 28 states in Brussels.

Friday's decision comes a day after the 15-nation United Nations Security Council unanimously voted to end the mandate that had authorised military action in Libya.

Alliance warplanes will cease operations on Monday after flying more than 26,000 sorties, and bombing almost 6,000 targets, in a seven-month operation that helped bring about the overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi, the former Libyan leader.

"We have fully complied with the historic mandate of the United Nations to protect the people of Libya, to enforce the no-fly zone and the arms embargo," Anders Fogh Rasmussen, NATO's secretary-general, said in a statement.

"Operation Unified Protector is one of the most successful in NATO history, We are concluding it in a considered and controlled manner because our military job is now done."

The mandate of Unified Protector, the name of NATO's operation, was to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas under attack or threat of attack.

The alliance's operations in Libya had divided the UN, with Russia, China, Brazil, India and South Africa accusing the alliance of breaching the Security Council mandate.

Between now and Monday, NATO aircraft will continue to monitor the situation on the ground and, if needed, "respond to threats to civilians", Rasmussen said.

NATO decided to end the mission even though interim Libyan leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil asked for the alliance to stay until the end of the year, warning on Wednesday that Gaddafi loyalists still posed a threat.

Jalil's fears were heightened by reports that Gaddafi's former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi, who fled Libya, had passed from Niger into Mali.

It was not known if Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam was with him. Saif was earlier reported to be hiding in Niger after his father's death.

Arms proliferation

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbara, reporting from Tripoli, said Libya's new administration may seek international help in certain security matters, including the control of its borders.

"Libya has been asking about striking a new deal with NATO or with other allies such as Qatar and the UAE [United Arab Emirates] to help them build a new army and police force," Ahelbara said.

NATO officials said members of the alliance were free to give further security aid to Libya individually.

Officials pointed to comments from Qatar's top general, who said on Wednesday that Western countries had proposed setting up a new alliance headed by Qatar to support Libya after NATO ends its mission.

Thursday's UN resolution does not lift the arms embargo or other UN sanctions on Libya that have been in place for half a year.

The resolution made clear that weapons were still a problem, voicing "concern at the proliferation of arms in Libya and its potential impact on regional peace and security".

A coalition led by the US, France and Britain launched the first salvos in the air war on March 19, before handing over command of the mission to NATO on March 31.

NATO allies have hailed the mission a success, with no casualties on their side and few civilian deaths, but cash-strapped governments have been eager to bring their planes home and focus on the bigger war in Afghanistan.

My comment is that I hope NATO doesn't live to regret its decision; Saif, Senussi and members of the Gadaffi family are only just over the border, as are assorted loyalist generals and advisers. Lamplighter

Yes...but if they can't get hold of any money, they can't do very much?

bb1 wrote:Yes...but if they can't get hold of any money, they can't do very much?

Depends on how much they salted away and what names they used. Things like homes bought abroad, planes, boats, cars etc can be impounded, bank accounts in known names can be frozen, but there are still the offshore deposits. LL

Hope they bought lots and lots of Greek bonds. Oh, and euros.

Good morning!

Al Jazeera:

ICC in talks with Gaddafi's fugitive son

International Criminal Court are in "informal contact" with Saif al-Islam, who is wanted for war crimes in Libya.
Last Modified: 28 Oct 2011 23:31

Saif al-Islam is reportedly in Niger, while senior Gaddafi aide Abdullah al-Senussi is said to be in Mali.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) has confirmed that informal contact has been made with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the fugitive son of former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, in order to arrest him and bring him to trial.

The ICC charged Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and Abdullah al-Senussi, Libya's former intelligence chief, with crimes against humanity for the bombing and shooting of civilian protesters in February.

"Through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif" [and we are] "galvanising efforts" [to arrest him and Senussi] - ICC

"If we reach agreement, logistical measures for his [Saif's] transfer will be taken," said Fadi El Abdallah, ICC spokesman, on Friday.

"It is not possible to discuss logistics or make presumptions about what is needed at this stage. There are different scenarios depending on what country he is in."

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Tripoli, said officials in Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) were "not happy" about the contact between Gaddafi's most prominent son and the ICC.

"They [the NTC] say he has to face trial here in Tripoli, not at the ICC. They insist Saif al-Islam be tried [by Libyans] without the intermediation of a third party," Ahelbarra said.

'Mercenaries'

In an earlier statement, the ICC said "through intermediaries, we have informal contact with Saif", and we are "galvanising efforts" to arrest him and Senussi.

The court gave no indication of the men's location, but Libyan officials have said both are being sheltered by Tuareg nomads in the Sahara, in the borderlands of Libya and Niger.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo, the ICC's prosecutor, said: "We have learnt through informal channels that there is a group of mercenaries who are offering to move Saif to an African [country] not party to the Rome Statute of the ICC."

Moreno-Ocampo added: "The Office of the Prosecutor is also exploring the possibility to intercept any plane within the air space of a state party in order to make an arrest."

An NTC source said on Thursday that Saif wanted an aircraft, possibly arranged by a neighbouring country, to take him out of Libya's southern desert and into ICC custody.

The NTC official said Saif, 39, had crossed into Niger but had not yet found a way to hand himself in to the ICC.

"There is a contact with Mali and with South Africa and with another neighbouring country to organise his exit. He hasn't got confirmation yet, he's still waiting," said the official, who declined to be named.

Buying time?

The ICC, which is based in The Hague in the Netherlands, has no police force of its own, and therefore has to rely on state co-operation to have suspects arrested.

If Saif is in Niger, an ICC member state, the Niger government has an obligation to arrest him. Tunisia and Mali are also member states, whereas Algeria is not.

Earlier this week, an NTC official said Saif had acquired a passport in a false name and was lying low south of Ghat, a border crossing with Algeria, through which his mother, sister and two of his surviving brothers fled in August.

The NTC has reportedly been pressing Algiers to hand over other Gaddafi relatives.

"The question is to what extent these countries are ready to manage the pressure that will be put on them by an ICC transfer as it will have implications for them with other African countries," Damien Helly, of the European Union Institute for Security Studies, told the Reuters news agency.

Helly questioned whether Saif was "desperately trying to save his life" or whether his offer to surrender was a way of buying time or bargaining to improve his situation.
..........................

My comment on this is that I think Saif is desperate NOT to be handed over to Libya where he might well get the same treatment as his late, unlamented father - not summarily executed, of that I am sure. He is highly educated and clever, he could well drag out an ICC appearance as Mladic and Karovic are doing. A trial in Libya, yes, with invited people to oversee the procedure and to make sure no 'irregularities' take place; such a trial might well redeem the NTC in some countries' eyes. LL

...................................

Al Jazeera Live Blog:

13 hours 33 min ago

The International Crimal Court (ICC) has confirmed that informal contact has been made with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the fugitive son of former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, in order to arrest him and bring him to trial.

The ICC charged Gaddafi, Saif al-Islam and Abdullah al-Senussi, Libya's former intelligence chief, with crimes against humanity for the bombing and shooting of civilian protesters in February.

"If we reach agreement, logistical measures for his [Saif's] transfer will be taken," said Fadi El Abdallah, ICC spokesman, on Friday.

"It is not possible to discuss logistics or make presumptions about what is needed at this stage. There are different scenarios depending on what country he is in."

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Tripoli, said officials in Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC) were "not happy" about the contact between Gaddafi's most prominent son and the ICC.

"They [the NTC] say he has to face trial here in Tripoli, not at the ICC. They insist Saif al-Islam be tried [by Libyans] without the intermediation of a third party," Ahelbarra said.

I would like to see the whole family on trial, except for his wife, and his eldest son, who doesn't appear to have been involved or done anything awful.
His daughter needs trying for her horrific attack on the nanny alone.

Sabot wrote:
I would like to see the whole family on trial, except for his wife, and his eldest son, who doesn't appear to have been involved or done anything awful.
His daughter needs trying for her horrific attack on the nanny alone.

It was Aline, wife of a younger son, Hannibal Gadaffi, who did that, bonny Sabot, not his daughter. LL

And that was Sabot, not me

Shall we all have more coffee and start again

bb1 wrote:And that was Sabot, not me

Shall we all have more coffee and start again

Sorry, dear one, I didn't see the poster's name - it's me age!! LL

Lamplighter wrote:

Sabot wrote:
I would like to see the whole family on trial, except for his wife, and his eldest son, who doesn't appear to have been involved or done anything awful.
His daughter needs trying for her horrific attack on the nanny alone.

It was Aline, wife of a younger son, Hannibal Gadaffi, who did that, bonny Sabot, not his daughter. LL

My bad. But I don't like her anyway. Pitch fork at the ready.

Sabot wrote:

Lamplighter wrote:

Sabot wrote:
I would like to see the whole family on trial, except for his wife, and his eldest son, who doesn't appear to have been involved or done anything awful.
His daughter needs trying for her horrific attack on the nanny alone.

It was Aline, wife of a younger son, Hannibal Gadaffi, who did that, bonny Sabot, not his daughter. LL

My bad. But I don't like her anyway. Pitch fork at the ready.

She is the daughter of a despicable, murderous despot; I don't think the attitudes etc of her father only rubbed off on his sons. And often the daughter can be more like the father than even the most rabid of the sons. After all, she did show up at pro-gadaffi rallies and show her total support for her father. LL

BBC Panorama programme on Moussa Koussa and Libya:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016ytvt/Panorama_Britain_Gaddafi_and_the_Torture_Trail/

Thanks, LL - this is interesting, too:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16099378

Libya: ICC Has Evidence Against Gaddafi's Son

There is "substantial evidence" that Saif al Islam Gaddafi committed crimes against humanity, the International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor has said.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo said multiple witnesses had claimed the 39-year-old son of Libya's ousted leader was involved with organising attacks against civilians.
The Hague-based International Criminal Court (ICC) accuses Saif of hiring mercenaries to carry out a plan worked out with his father, who was killed after being captured by Libyan revolutionary fighters more than a week ago.

The ICC has also said Saif was in contact through intermediaries about surrendering for trial.
It is thought mercenaries may now be trying to move Saif to Niger, where other members of his father's fallen regime have already fled.
The aid-reliant country has vowed to respect commitments to the ICC, but it also faces a backlash from Tuareg nomads in its north, if it hands over Saif.
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi was regarded by many in Niger's Saharan areas as a hero for backing past rebellions against the capital.
Mr Moreno-Ocampo said: "There are some people connected with (Saif) that are in touch with people connected with us.
"We have some information that there is a mercenary group trying to help him to move to a different country, so we are trying to prevent this activity.
"Some of them are South Africans allegedly."

Some pictures here of Sirte:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/media-gallery/16096405



Violent clashes between the opposition forces and Gaddafi loyalists reduced this Sirte street, shown on October 18, 2011, to rubble

Frankly, parts of it look like Stalingrad - I cannot imagine how bad the fighting was for that to happen.