gonçalo amaral interviewed at SIC tv channel about his new book

gonçalo amaral interviewed at SIC tv channel about his new book

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2011/11/goncalo-amaral-in-boa-tarde-without.html

Conceição Lino (CL): Today he is here to speak about this issue. Your new book is precisely about the disappearance, kidnap and abuse of children in Portugal: "Defenceless Lives". Why did you decide to write this book?

Gonçalo Amaral (GA): Well, because I realized that there is a reality, a sad reality of which there is a certain lack of knowledge, a lack of studies about the phenomenon and problematic regarding the disappearance of children in Portugal. As in other cases the police forces act on a case by case basis and what is lacking in Portugal, in various situations, is to study and plan the reaction to certain types of crimes. And in fact, in this case, it didn't exist. There aren't...

CL: In your opinion...

GA: There aren't any studies. The police acts case by case, most times the acting is based on the experience, by the police logical reasoning...

CL: Different teams, in different locations in the country...

GA: Yes, exactly.

CL: In your opinion should there be a specialized team only for this kind of cases?

GA: Without a doubt. At a national level, we are a small country, there should be a police unit solely for the disappearance of children. Kidnap or not, but for the disappearance of children. Regardless if it is a voluntary disappearance or not, even in voluntary disappearances, that child and the anxiety that her absence - it could be for a day or two [the disappearance] - causes to the family, the anguish implied, that is important.

CL: It is one of the worries you have in this book, you speak about the suffering, the...

GA: Exactly.

CL: ...the devastation that is, for a family to feel the absence and not have any information about their child, about...

GA: And they don't even know what to do.

CL: ...about the child if it is a small child; but, inclusively the grandparents, the siblings, all the family not knowing what to do and with a huge suffering.

GA: Huge suffering. In the United States, for example, there is a guide - and I speak about that guide here [in the book] - of support to the families of long-term missing children, in Portugal that [guide] is unknown. What can the families expect from the authorities? From the police activities? What can they do to contribute to the return of the child, and what can they do to survive that tragedy that affects not only the parents, but also the siblings - if they exist. Here in Portugal we don't have anything like that. Even though other countries have that, here in Portugal no one ever talked about that, on those guides to support the families. This book also has that concern, it speaks about the families, what the families can expect, what they can do, how to help, and how they can survive to all that.

CL: The number of missing children cases in Portugal, of children who have disappeared without a trace, is much lower in comparison to other places around the world, right? But they are sufficient to raise concerns...

GA: Yes, much, much lower. One case would be enough.

CL:...One case would be enough - and to alarm any of us. And if this happened to me? It's something that worries any person.

GA: And it could happen to anyone, unfortunately it could happen. That is the preoccupation in this book, and also to explain to people how the police should be organized, what the authorities can do, what tools they have and need to investigate these cases.

CL: About and take as starting point some of the cases we chose (because we don´t have time for all) and the book has more details, but let´s talk about some so you can, each of these cases, were with a lot media interest, people heard a lot about them, read a lot about them, saw many pictures, many statements, so you can under your perspective to point in what they are different between them, what could also have done that it didn´t, what kind of crime we have, the case of Joana Cipriano for example, who disappeared in 12 September 2004 at Figueira village, Portimao, Algarve, she had 8 years old, and the mother made believed that she disappeared after went out home to buy milk and canned, the authorities have performed several searches without success, and started to believe that the child was kidnapped, gonçalo amaral, the mother herself, the principal suspect of this case, that she is the sign that her daughter disappeared.

GA: exactly.

GA: But she had to shown sign that her daughter disappeared, if it was missing, a child that was in school, which was accompanied by the commission of minor´s protection, it has been detected the situation of neglect, and what fails, what fails is what fails in the most of these cases: the act of the police, later action and in this case what happened was that only 12 days later the pj investigate the case of crime namely with the possibility of a kidnap and conducted inspections in the apartment, the house, uses techniques of gathering traces to tried to understand what was there in question, what kind of crime, because what is being discussed at international level is in a disappearance of a child what to do, what to think, if waiting for the discussion if it is kidnap if it isn´t, when it´s a kidnap, when it´s a disappearance,

CL: but it is precisely about, that is exactly what I want to talk, how in Portugal.let´s talk about Portuguese reality: how in the majority of disappearances, unfortunately they aren´t kidnaps and people and children appears shortly after, there is a general sensation even from the authorities, whether pj, whether psp, whether gnr, that: why it should be kidnap, no, other hypothesis before to reach the worst hypothesis isn´t it? Waiting for the child to appear and that could be a precious time in the investigation

GA: they aren´t

GA: exactly, there is a phrase in the book which was taught for older colleagues and that resumes to this: the time passing and the truth runs, in fact the more time police starts to act, the more traces disappears, there are traces that are lost, there is a whole, that puts in question the the final result of the investigation, and so, the police, says the American colleagues and others, that it should act like this, if the lady, let´s believe that it was a true kidnap, which was not the case in the Joana case, it was a false allegation of kidnap, proved in court, but it is a true kidnap and let´s use all the techniques namely the techniques of homicide, uses the the techniques that launches when there is another type of lighter crime, we have experts, we have site exams, we have listening witnesses in detail, a series of things , we are saying that is a homicide in the first, but using that police techniques which are used when because a homicide is the one that is studied in colleges, also in polices, the most serious which as the need of all techniques which we known, even the assistance of science, so, then let them talk by itself, but that police act as to be immediately, you cannot think that well the child should return, let´s wait 48 hours, the child must return, those 48 yours are essential, in a case of true kidnap, the normal is the children being killed at the end of 48 hours, that´s what numbers says, if we are waiting, the child is dead, these questions that puts, now how should the polices organized, a, I, in my opinion, with other colleagues I have talked, we thought that a unique structure should exist formed by people who receives formation

CL: the time passing and the truth runs, exactly, that is what we have

CL: that´s what numbers says, it is absolutely specialized, which takes as example also what happened in other countries, because the human behavior is similar

GA:in other countries

GA: the mistakes, the mistakes which polices, the Portuguese police, the Portuguese polices had during, other, but continues to have, continues to have, so, this is not for us to feel in a way well with us, but the fact is: we made mistakes like others do, and that is equal, whether in Portugal whether abroad, and if that as happened here, always because about the lack of sensibility to,

CL: Well, let´s go to another case, that the Portuguese knows too well: the case of Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça, he had 11 years old at the date of disappearance in the day 4 March 1998, many time has passed, 13 years has passed, the most of it, no clues to conduct to a trial, until recently, the trial of the supposed author of Rui Pedro´s kidnap is set to be in 17 November, the arguido is Afonso Dias at the time with 28, now with 21, in that date he would have conducted the minor to a sexual meeting with prostitutes, how can we, what can we conclude looking for a case like this that was so in the media, that shocked many people, that devastated that family, that had, this boy that now is arguido, in that time was a possibility, passing all this time and only now the trial comes

GA: only now and in the end of this investigation started with several teams, I recall that the reconstitution of the facts about, in which the suspect had in that afternoon, was only carried 5 years later, other team took the case, there are things that that started wrong and wrong continued and that accusation, the trial of kidnap could have occurred right in that time because there is nothing new, today that doesn´t existed in that time when the process was shelved,

CL: it was the last person to be seen with him, with whom we walked more, what has now being discovered that wasn´t suspected at that time

GA: that is

GA: nothing

CL: that´s what makes us shocked, mainly the parents of Rui Pedro

GA: we return to the same,

GA: and tried, and tried and did it in a way during all these years as if to survive to, pick up the son and created an association, the Portuguese association of supporting missing children in Portugal, trying with several ways to search, committed mistakes, the police also committed, to trust in scammers detectives and what, the essential of what happened in this case is a case that was paradigmatic of what lacks to be done in Portugal, and in fact is incomprehensible how in that night in the end of that afternoon the pj was contacted and says this child is missing with that age, 11 years, and police says: it has no cause of kidnap, the Public Ministry decided to told kidnap: only in this we will act and then what is done, the local police: GNR, tried to present immediate response in looking for child and commits some mistakes, namely one that for me is, it happens and may have marked all the investigation, which was: the confrontation in that night the suspect with Rui Pedro´s family, putting then face to face, now tell the truth, that was not, he blocked, not a very good method, it is logical that pj would never do that, so, it failed, but people tried to do their best, and GNR tried to do it´s best, and it was learning during

CL: not a very good method, it is not any, probably, for sure, no experience in these types of cases, the motives of these disappearances are not the same.

GA: there is also another case, which is Jorge Sepúlveda, disappeared also, a year before, and his father says: when I went to pj, the pj had dozens of investigators to looking for stolen cars, but only one to look for missing children, a car was more important then a child, and that continues, we have yellow alert, we trust in yellow alert, the image of the child, but that is not enough, that is important because, we don´t have the borders that existed, in EU, but that for itself is not enough, it as to be that structure, the formation, the planning, only this it is possible to occurred effective investigations, I´m not saying that with this way it is possible to locate the child, in a certain way and it will be always pursued what is important to be done, nothing can be left behind, nothing can be to be done 5 years later

CL: the worst thing in an investigation is to understand that what will be done should have been done much sooner, it can be too late, your, another point of this work with situations in Portugal, and situations with International level which there are cases that shocks us also, and we have knowledge like the case of Natasha Kampusch, the Austrian girl kidnapped with 10 on the way to school March 2 1998, reappeared 8 years later with 18 years, fled from the abductor to tell her story of her captivity in which was in a basement with a room of small dimensions with only one person, the abductor, which suicide himself a few hours following the escape of Natasha. Why did you choose also this case?

GA: This case because it is related with a thing that is very serious, very important, it is related with the children in the end of these years reappeared, and reappeared fortunately alive, it is known their whereabouts and they are alive, and what is concluded that all are female gender, and that when were abducted, they had 8, 9 years old and maybe for that detail today they have endured sexual abuses during those years,

CL: so that age is an age in which, according to reality, it is the age of girls where there is the probability of being victims of sexual abuse and that was exactly the motive

GA: the reality and the sex, the motive of the kidnap of using the child during years, that´s why they survive.

CL: besides, after this case, we have another

GA: there are others before, in Japan, also 9 years old, also female gender, I chose that case also to

CL: there is also that situation of that girl grown up during years side by side with that person, she was never met any other person during that time of life until reaches the 18, the relationship that establishes between her / the abductor, that´s the person she saw, with who she establishes emotional ties and even doing her a sexual slave, even removing freedom

GA: exactly, emotional ties, the person, there are cases, children, people with bigger ages, adults even, in which would have been emotional ties with the the abductor, which makes that the person who is kidnapped, abducted almost that pardons the abductor, the responsible for her kidnap.

CL: one of the situations that is related with one of your attentions is that with whom it stays without knowing what happened, in fact, let´s systematize because the clues for parents, what to do when a son disappears, because how should survive to that absence, to that anguish, because there are many situations in which the parents penalizes, considered guilty, that thinks that if they were there, that never happened, it is their guilt, not only from parents but from other relatives, besides the absence there is all that gigantic guilt that people carries, and guilt is not from them in the majority most of times or in many cases

GA: in cases of kidnaps, the guilt is not from them, surely that it isn´t, and what is needed to do, surviving to that, essentially is needed

CL: they shouldn´t blame themselves

GA: no they shouldn´t blame themselves, they should look for psychological support in that area, they should cooperate with police, they should see what police, what police can do, and they shouldn´t in the beginning to involve mostly in the search, they should concentrate, they should think in previous moments, what happened, details that may be overlooked, they need to tell police,

CL: they should, they should, concentrate more for example in the clothes, any sign of all steps that the child may had, or any situation involved, to want to look, mentally our memory

GA: friends, contacts, they should allow others to deal with it, and writes them, telling them to police, with tendency to to, in some countries to to launch with prizes, monetary ways to someone who gives informations, then appears some scammers, it is needed to be careful with those things, with the activity of private detectives, here in Portugal not many, but in other countries happens, the funds while created to support the relatives, to operate the search efforts, what should be separated in these funds to support families, the funds to support search efforts, they should be managed with people that has nothing to do with that family or someone with trust but in which they have no direct involvement, then the popular scrutiny,

CL; but, one of your suggestions also, one of your advices is: parents should do the normal routine, although difficult

GA: it is difficult, but at the end of some years, and when other child´s are behind, it is important not to forget the offsprings which are at home, for example, in birthdays, when a birthday happens, that is also to be celebrated, it cannot be

CL: the couples themselves, most of times, this turns to be a motive of separation,

GA: many couples

CL: and not to unites them.

GA: and not to unites them.

GA: exactly, so, that also, there are many, many things, where to obtain that support, friends, church, psychologists, to overcome those situations, and then avoid certain ways, most of times media exposure, notice the case of the mother of Rui Pedro, Rui Pedro´s mother is in this moment with the depression she have, with the disease she have and expose her in this moment is something that for her must be painful, to repeat that again, I don´t know if it is or not the right way, because it is not to sensitize the kidnapper, the appearing, to have image, to see, in this time

CL: but gonçalo amaral, from what we have seen, the fight of Filomena, Rui Pedro´s mother, for example, and other parents, we are talking, I am with a look of someone who accompanied cases of disappearances, what we verify in practice, that media attention is many times needed to shake the work of the investigation, whether like it or not, that happens, right? And so, but, because everyone mentions that in the case of Madeleine, a British child who disappears and what people showed so much attention, much worrying, what police made to discover Madeleine, and why didn´t the parents of these children, during years, missing, and there we have, it had been delays, noticed of that much later, which occupied truly more then loose ends in some cases that parents have that sorrow and wants to speak, to expose, they want, they want, want a way which grants them to be able to bring attention to the suffering they are experiencing.

GA: it is important it was shaken, too well shaken, but but, a person cannot

GA, yes

GA: but that, but

GA; I think yes, but, I speaking in this case, I have no doubts that there is only one trial, due to the efforts of that mother, the efforts of that family, because if not, the trial wouldn´t happened, the accusation, the pronounce, the trial that will now happen, now what I ask is: after all this, after the trial settled, to expose again that pain, if

CL: it is a pain that never ends

GA: it is a pain that never ends, I have no doubts about it, if, what is the purpose, to sensitize the kidnaper? The kidnaper had time to, 12 years to be in any way to sensitize with the situation, so, I don´t know, I can´t understand what is the final purpose, now that, I think that in this moment, is to allow the trial to proceed, of that I have no doubt,

CL: but, the disappearance, you think that, despite the time that has passed, that there is information that can appear

GA; I think that during the trial, it is possible, just like the lawyer of Rui Pedro´s family, Dr. Ricardo Sá Fernandes, it is possible that the truth may be know, what happened to Rui Pedro, I think that possible, and let me tell you here, that it is only possible, the trial only happens due to the efforts of Rui Pedro´s mother, of this I have no doubts,

CL: it is easy to believe that because she was a mother, it is a tireless, fighting, always with this worry, with this suffering, which ruined her health in reality, which she never abandoned, because she is mother, neither she nor other mothers who a son disappeared, a daughter, which are situations in fact, the only thing that can satisfy is that there were less cases where suffering is atrocious and this is a crime that, that, frightens any person, it´s a kind of crime that

GA: frightens mothers and fathers

CL: what can be done to prevent one of these things?

GA: what can be done? In terms of police, I repeat: police has to organize, to structure, to prevent, it is necessary to, why children disappears? The public is also to have an answer, children disappears because they are vulnerable to victimizations, they are mistreated, neglected, abused, they are desirable beings for pedophiles, and it is through this that this is an area being like someone who had experience, an area which multidisciplinary, there are the need of psychologists, social technicians talking about the issue, to present their ideas and in a certain way necessary for example to, there are cases here that are study cases such as Rui Pedro, Joana, Cipriano, these are study cases, considered study cases but never were studied in terms of, by pj, never the polices, never the Public Ministry tried to reunite those who handled these investigations with families of the missing, tried to understand what failed, what

CL: so I expect that this work of yours have a contribute for, to move
forward in this issue, because are in fact devastating crimes to be with the uncertainty during many years about what happened it is absolutely terrible.

Many thanks for that, Pedro - yet more empty waffle and blah blah from Gonc then? And he has some nerve even mentioning the Cipriano case.

I suspect the interviewer was fishing here:


she had 8 years old, and the mother made believed that she disappeared after went out home to buy milk and canned, the authorities have performed several searches without success, and started to believe that the child was kidnapped, gonçalo amaral, the mother herself, the principal suspect of this case, that she is the sign that her daughter disappeared.

It looks very much to me as if the whole thing came from Gonc himself - just like him waking up on May 4th and deciding the McCanns DONE IT.

Look at Gonc's reply:
[the PJ] conducted inspections in the apartment, the house, uses techniques of gathering traces to tried to understand what was there in question

We know now that they didn't 'gather traces' of anything - no weapons, nothing. They didn't even bother to check that the blood they supposedly found was human, let alone Joana's.

Gonc's claiming that her mother's guilt was proved in court, is very close to an outright lie; there was no evidence beyond a forced 'confession' under torture.

Someone's guilt was proven beyond all doubt though, wasn't it?



a) Leonor Cipriano was brutally tortured by agents of the various Portuguese Judicial Police who remain unidentified;


b) Gonçalo Amaral de Sousa lied to the judiciary by claiming that Leonor Cipriano "fell down the stairs of the PJ in Faro and was not tortured," and is therefore condemned as a perpetrator of a crime of making false allegations to 1 year and 6 months of the sentence in prison, suspended for the same period (1 year and 6 months);


The Gonc clique must think the people of Portugal are stupid - which they most certainly are not.

Yes bb1, I agree with you, you welcome.