Re: THE FINAL REPORT

**bb1** Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:08 pm

That line was pushed for a long time, Sadie - that the PJ were some kind of elite police force.
It's become abundantly clear that some of them have never shaken off memories of happier days under Salazar and co.

Remember this chilling remark from Flores, in conversation with Gonc?

MF – Things were different in my time. She would have been under such an attack that before she realised anything, she'd be in jail.

Absolutely horrifying in a 21st century, European democracy.

**sadie** Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:46 pm

Yes, appalling.

I think there must still be loads of people in PT who think torture is OK, because I had to spend some considerable time explaining to a PT friend what democracy means ... and that a confession by torture is no evidence at all.

Also I had to explain the meaning of "innocent unless proven guilty"

Sorry, I have diversified. Please carry on with your discussion smile

**bb1** Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:58 pm

It is all part of the whole picture, Sadie.

I know I was horrified when I saw Claudia, the Portuguese mod on MM, sneering at trial by jury.

She really did think that trial by judges - unelected officials, with all the potential for croneyism and corruption that comes with that - was somehow 'better'.

It seems to tie in with this idea that as long as someone - anyone, not neccessarily the guilty party -is convicted of a crime, that is 'justice', when it is actually anything but.

It is truly bizarre; you expect vestiges of this thinking in the former Iron Curtain Eastern European nations; you certainly do not expect it in a Western democracy like Portugal.

**Lamplighter** Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:14 pm

Eastern Europe threw off the Russian yoke, Portugal merely had a dictator who died and was succeeded by a long-time ally. And there is a difference. The Bloc had a big goal, democrary with a capital D. Portugal was never under such a yoke, it was 'quasi-fascist' by choice and Salazar chose to remain neutral during WW2.

From Wikipedia "Opposed to communism, socialism, and liberalism, Salazar's regime was clerical, conservative, and nationalistic. Its policy envisaged the perpetuation of Portugal as a pluricontinental empire under the doctrine of lusotropicalism .... Lusotropicalism or Luso-Tropicalism was first coined by Brazilian sociologist Gilberto Freyre, to describe the distinctive character of the Portuguese imperialism in several lectures, and is a belief and movement especially strong during the António de Oliveira Salazar dictatorship in Portugal (the Estado Novo regime), proposing that the Portuguese were better colonizers than other European nations.

It was believed that because of Portugal's warmer climate, being geographically close to Africa, and having been inhabited by Romans, Visigoths, Moors and several other peoples in pre-modern times, the Portuguese were more humane, friendly, and adaptable to other climates and cultures.

In addition, by the early 20th century, Portugal was by far the European colonial power with the oldest territorial presence overseas; in some cases its territories had been continuously settled and ruled by the Portuguese throughout five centuries. It celebrated both actual and mythological elements of racial democracy and civilizing mission in the Portuguese Empire, and was a pro-miscegenation attitude toward the colonies/overseas territories. It is best exemplified in the work of Gilberto Freyre.

In order to support his colonial policies, António de Oliveira Salazar adopted Gilberto Freyre's notion of Lusotropicalism, maintaining that since Portugal had been a multicultural, multiracial and pluricontinental nation since the 15th century, if the country were to be dismembered by losing its overseas territories, that would spell the end for Portuguese independence. In geopolitical terms, no critical mass would then be available to guarantee self-sufficiency to the Portuguese State.

Salazar had strongly resisted Freyre's ideas throughout the 1930s, partly because Freyre claimed the Portuguese were more prone than other European nations to miscegenation, and only adopted Lusotropicalism after sponsoring Freyre on a visit to Portugal and some of its overseas territories in 1951-2. Freyre's work Aventura e Rotina (Adventure and Routine) was a result of this trip.

After Salazar's death, his Estado Novo regime persisted under the direction of one of his longtime aides, Marcelo Caetano. Despite tentative overtures towards an opening of the regime, Caetano balked at ending the colonial war, notwithstanding the condemnation of most of the international community. Eventually the Estado Novo fell on April 25, 1974, after the Carnation Revolution. The retreat from the colonies and the acceptance of its independence terms which would create newly-independent communist states in 1975 (most notably the People's Republic of Angola and the People's Republic of Mozambique) prompted a mass exodus of Portuguese citizens from Portugal's African territories (mostly from Portuguese Angola and Mozambique),[16][17] creating over a million destitute Portuguese refugees — the retornados

Basically Salazar's regime was fascism with colonial aspirations, along the lines of the Italians and Germans in Arabia and North Africa. He was able to carry on this system as he was not tainted by German and Italian fascism, or Soviet communism. In fact, what he was doing, and what the Portuguese hierachy seem to still follow, was prmolgating the old 'colonial' ideals. LL

**bb1** Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:19 pm

proposing that the Portuguese were better colonizers than other European nations

And that is one of the biggest lies of all, isn't it?

I have seen assorted members of Team Gonc claiming that the reason there are so many mixed-race people in former Portuguese colonies is that Portuguese settlers intermarried with the happy, smiling natives.

Oh no it wasn't - it was because they were notorious for cruelty, and raping local women who they generally enslaved.

**bb1** Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:31 pm

Bren on the subject of the material which has been left out by Morais and co:

http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/07/30/half-time-scores-dont-count/

**sadie** Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:51 pm

bb1 wrote:Bren on the subject of the material which has been left out by Morais and co:

http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/07/30/half-time-scores-dont-count/

That is Sooo interesting. thumbsup

Thank you BB and Bren

Bren seems to be really trying make amends smile

**sadie** Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:07 pm

[quote="bb1"]proposing that the Portuguese were better colonizers than other European nations

And that is one of the biggest lies of all, isn't it?

I have seen assorted members of Team Gonc claiming that the reason there are so many mixed-race people in former Portuguese colonies is that Portuguese settlers intermarried with the happy, smiling natives.

Oh no it wasn't - it was because they were notorious for cruelty, and raping local women who they generally enslaved.[/quote]

I have no knowledge of raping, but someone I had contact with, an English woman married to a Portuguese lived in Central Africa (IIRC). She and her husband were Portuguese government employees of some type ;admin, I think.

She bragged about how they used to shout at the black guy " Come here boy ... stand there boy" ... and then mightily smack him across the face on both sides ... just for starters, like .. before they asked him questions or told him what to do

She thought that it was ever so funny Shocked

She said they expected it Twisted Evil

that you did it to get their attention and respect .. Jeez

Roared her head off as she told me vomit

**bb1** Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:15 pm

I saw this story about the kindly Portuguese colonizers being repeated by....one of the Team Gonc lot, and decided to find out more, Sadie, as I knew nothing at all about it, beyond they got finally got thrown out of Africa.
Portugal had had colonies all over the world, and their conduct was appalling. I don't deny some dreadful things happened in the British empire, but Portuguese colonists raped and enslaved women as a matter of course. They were never called to account for any of it.
It is very telling that there is no Portuguese equivalent of the Commonwealth.

**bb1** Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:19 pm

You have to wonder whose agenda it suited for material to be left out of the Final report translations on sites like MCF, don't you?

Things like this are very important:

On the other hand, the parents of the minor redoubled their efforts to make the most diverse contacts and appeals, releasing pictures of MADELEINE, at the same time that the British Authorities opened a specialised and permanent contact line to receive all the information in connection with the disappearance, as well as information coming from Interpol and similar police agencies.

This activity (dissemination of information), apart from news provided by the media, was aimed at obtaining, in the shortest possible time, information that would aid the investigation in 2 different ways: finding MADELEINE alive and retrieve data about the circumstances of her disappearance and about a potential criminal involvement by a third party, having to that end been requested the committed cooperation of the population.

This collaborative approach resulted in many leads being passed onto the police, by the most diverse sources and by the most unusual means, most of them made directly to the police.

From 04/05/2007, the day after the event, initially at an enormous rate, thousands of sightings were reported to the police, from everywhere in Portugal and the most diverse foreign countries, from neighbouring Spain to the distant Indonesia and Singapore, being the missing minor “recognised” in the most diverse locations and companies to the extent that she is supposedly seen on the same day in places 4000 Km apart.

And this gives the lie to many of Gonc's utterances:

Shortly after the beginning of the investigation, continuous relationships were created with the Leicestershire Constabulary which sent, in support, various of their members to Portugal, having, equally, the PJ sending employees to the UK.

It is emphasized, specifically, that the level of cooperation and of understanding between the PJ and the Leicestershire Constabulary achieved, always, very high levels, united in the common pursuit of the missing child and the truth.

As does this:

The questioning of the holiday group merely corroborated what had already been established during the investigation, without any detail that could have been reputed as especially relevant being brought forward.

**sadie** Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:57 pm

BB1

You have to wonder whose agenda it suited for material to be left out of the Final report translations on sites like MCF, don't you?

Things like this are very important:

Absolutely BB. I immediately hone in on anything that gets suddenly whooshed, omitted .. or altered.

There has to be a reason ... and that interests me.

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