Schoolgirl runs away with teacher

bb1 wrote:It'll all come out in the wash, Sabot. Dragging the star-crossed lovers apart won't help matters, it never does.

Of course it won't Bonny. But they will no doubt attempt to brain wash her in the same fashion that they think he has done. But you only need to look at the available facts to know that this silly girl is in some way culpable, as are her family. This man is obviously not a Paedophile, but that is what he will be labelled as if they get him back to UK. I just hope that France stands firm on what it promises because there is more to this than just an offence that might have been committed in Angleterre.
But then my interest in this has only ever been a legal interest.
Britain needs to take a serious look at the ghastly Treaty that they signed. And to use it against a couple of stupid star crossed idiots is almost obscene when they are prepared to give up a boy who is not the whole schilling.
Good bye, Great Britain. But then I knew that a long time ago.

I'm not actually sure if the EAW wasn't more a means to get their photos in the French media, Sabot, as it hadn't been widely broadcast until then.

If I was him, I would be more worried about what his wife is going to have to say about all this. I am sure it is grounds for divorce.

bb1 wrote:I'm not actually sure if the EAW wasn't more a means to get their photos in the French media, Sabot, as it hadn't been widely broadcast until then.

If I was him, I would be more worried about what his wife is going to have to say about all this. I am sure it is grounds for divorce.

But it does prove how very easy it is to get A EAW with out any actual proof of a Crime. And this alone is disgraceful. This man has been arrested when no one knows what he has done, or even if he has broken the law.

And I don't suppose he cares if his wife divorces him. He wouldn't have run off if he did.

My own feeling is that it may have been little more than a strategy to get publicity in France - which appears to have worked, as the loved-up pair were spotted by members of the Frence public.

Which, incidentally, makes a nonsense of all the forker whines about the McCanns wanting Madeleine's abduction to be headline news....

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, no-one is charged with anything, Sabot.

bb1 wrote:My own feeling is that it may have been little more than a strategy to get publicity in France - which appears to have worked, as the loved-up pair were spotted by members of the Frence public.

Which, incidentally, makes a nonsense of all the forker whines about the McCanns wanting Madeleine's abduction to be headline news....

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, no-one is charged with anything, Sabot.

No, and I wouldn't be surprised either, Bonny. But they did get an EAW on sweet feck all at all. This is what worries me. Just what does this EAW amount to?
I cannot go along with something that can be gained with nothing but a statement of supposed wrong doing by people who don't even know.
However, Great Britain can have itself. I don't live there anymore, or even want to if this is an example.
Believe me, France knows what it is doing. This is why they refused to sign The Treaty.

I assume it was issued as the girl is under the current age of consent, which is 16, and therefore a minor. This would make the offence child abduction even if she went willingly, and any sex illegal even if she consented or even instigated the act. If they had waited until the day after her 16th birthday to do their runner then it would have been legal and, as far as I am aware, no crime would have been committed. LL

Lamplighter wrote:I assume it was issued as the girl is under the current age of consent, which is 16, and therefore a minor. This would make the offence child abduction even if she went willingly, and any sex illegal even if she consented or even instigated the act. If they had waited until the day after her 16th birthday to do their runner then it would have been legal and, as far as I am aware, no crime would have been committed. LL

But they are in France. LL, where it is not a crime. And she went willingly. Points of Law, obviously, but this is The EU. Maybe they should get their acts together. France and Spain, and even Germany know that these silly little girls can be dangerous. So why has it not yet occurred to The UK?
These children are becoming more sexually aware as the years go by, and everything State Aided encourages them to have sex. It is simply not good enough for The State to decide on who they may have sex with.

Me? Fifty years ago? I didn't even know what sex was at the age of 18, but then I wasn't bombarded with my right to behave badly, or according to how I felt. And I never got any lessons in school about how to procreate, or not. But the one thing we did know was that getting pregnant was not a good idea, even if we didn't know how this might happen.
It just won't do to blame the man alone. But this is what will happen in this case.

Missing Megan Talks To Mum On Phone
Sky News – 21 minutes ago

Missing schoolgirl Megan Stammers has spoken to her parents on the phone after being found with her maths teacher in Bordeaux, France.
She is expected to be reunited with her family soon and should return to the UK either tonight or tomorrow, sources said.
Sussex Police said that French officers swooped on the pair after three sightings were made of them in the south-west of France.
Chief Inspector Jason Tingley revealed details of the climax to a week-long international hunt at a press conference in Lewes, Sussex.
He said police tracked down Megan, 15, and Forrest, 30, after a number of tip-offs from the public following a TV appeal on French television.
French media reported earlier that the pair were stopped as they made their way - hand-in-hand - to a work-related appointment in the centre of Bordeaux.
It is understood Forrest had recently been interviewed for a bar job.
The married teacher was held on suspicion of child abduction and Megan initially taken into police protection.
Forrest is due to be taken from a police station in Bordeaux to the city's Palais de Justice, where he will be officially notified of his arrest.
He is due to attend a formal court hearing on Tuesday morning and is likely to be held in custody until then, sources said.
A European Arrest Warrant had been issued for Forrest - a part-time musician - earlier this week.
The pair, who left Britain on a cross-Channel ferry on September 20, were found as "a direct result of media coverage in France", French police said.
Megan's stepfather Martin Stammers, who last night made an emotional appeal for her return on BBC's Crimewatch, said he was "thrilled to bits".
"The relief, the outpouring of love from everyone is just amazing. We are just so, so happy.
"As time goes on you despair even more, but knowing Megan, knowing the girl she is, I always had that belief she was strong enough within herself to stay safe and well."
Forrest's parents - Jim and Julie Forrest - said in a statement: "We are pleased that Megan and Jeremy have been found safe and well.
"This has been an ordeal for all the families concerned. We would like to thank Sussex and the French police as well as the British media for their assistance.
"We are relieved that the search is finally over and everyone can now focus on a safe and secure return for them both."
It is believed the pair had travelled to the south-western city by train after leaving Forrest's car in Paris.
They were picked up today on La Rue Sainte Catherine at 12.15pm, UK time.
The schoolgirl was said to be "safe and well" but is expected to undergo a French police medical examination before she is able to return to her family.
Megan's mother Danielle Wilson was seen leaving her house in Eastbourne, Sussex, in a hurry following the news of her daughter's discovery.
Terry Boatwright, headteacher of Bishop Bell School, where Megan was taught by Forrest, said: "Everyone in the Bishop Bell School community is delighted that Megan has been found and can now be reunited with her family, who must be so relieved.
"Throughout the last week, finding Megan has been everyone's priority and a major focus of our thoughts and prayers in school.
"Clearly, much needs to be done now to support Megan, and her family, as they seek to return to some sort of normality and we will do all we can to play our part in that."
East Sussex Council said it is investigating what happened.
On a Facebook page set up to help the search, well-wishers expressed their relief at the news Megan would be returning home.
Craig Michael Warner said: "Great news so pleased was all I could think about."
Derek John Wroe said: "Excellent news. Very happy indeed for the family in what must have been a horrific nightmare. Wishing the Stammers all the best."
Julia Rees said: "So glad Megan is safe and well... It is going to be a very bumpy road ahead but with all this overwhelming love and support she'll be fine."
Under French law, a 15-year-old is not considered a minor in sexual terms.
However Forrest could be deemed to have committed a crime in France if he is found to have abused the position of authority he had as Megan's teacher.
Megan left her home in Walton Close, Eastbourne at around 4.30pm last Thursday, telling her mother she was going to stay overnight at a friend's house.
Later that day CCTV recorded Mr Forrest's black Ford Fiesta heading to Dover with Megan in the passenger seat.
The following morning Megan's mother received a text message from Bishop Bell C of E School to say that Megan had not attended any lessons that day and police were called.

The EAW was issued on suspicion of abduction. If the girl was taken abroad by this teacher and he knew that her parents did not or would not approve the journey then he has at least technically abducted her because as a child she is not able to give consent to such a journey. I believe that there is a possibility that she travelled using his wife's passport. Without that if the authorities at Dover or Calais had questioned him, Forrest would have had to explain why he was travellig with an unrelated minor.

2

Offence of abduction of child by other persons.
(1)[F5Subject to subsection (3) below, a person, other than one mentioned in subsection (2) below.] commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, he takes or detains a child under the age of sixteen—
(a)so as to remove him from the lawful control of any person having lawful control of the child; or
(b)so as to keep him out of the lawful control of any person entitled to lawful control of the child.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/37/part/I

It would appear that is precisely Forrest did. In law he will be deemed to have been the decision maker as not only was he the adult but he drove the car away.

It is probable that the hand holding and texting will be justification for his dismissal from his teaching post as it will be deemed inappropriate conduct and it will very possibly lead to him being banned from teaching in the future or at least facing an investigation by the authorities.

If the relationship has progressed to an intimate level then he will could well be prosecuted simply on grounds of statutory rape. The CPS will also take into account the fact that he is in a position of trust in relation to the child. That would mean that even if she was aged up to 18 he could still be prosecuted and if found guilty sentenced and put on the sex offenders register.

Even in many universities and colleges the existence of such a relationship between teacher and student would very likely lead to dismissal or at the very least a written warning.

Oh, Good God, I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Some silly little girl seduced some silly little man, for which the might of The European Arrest Warrant has been invoked. Bully for them. This will be the beginning of the end of The European Arrest Warrant. Never in all of my born days have I come across anything more likely to expose just how ridiculous this EAW is. And it will fail on this occasion.
Well done, you all. You have done yourselves, something that I could never have hoped to do. You have proved what a bunch of Tits you all are.

I don't envy whoever has to sort this one out, Greenink. Forrest has undeniably committed offences for he will at least face disciplinary action, but if the full weight of the law comes down on him, then he is liable to appear even more attractive to Ms Stammers.

What teenage girl could possibly resist such a heroic White Knight?

Sabot wrote:Oh, Good God, I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Some silly little girl seduced some silly little man, for which the might of The European Arrest Warrant has been invoked. Bully for them. This will be the beginning of the end of The European Arrest Warrant. Never in all of my born days have I come across anything more likely to expose just how ridiculous this EAW is. And it will fail on this occasion.
Well done, you all. You have done yourselves, something that I could never have hoped to do. You have proved what a bunch of Tits you all are.

You are making a presumption there. There is just as much likelihood that some teacher in a position of authority over that child "seduced" her.

But no matter which side was the guilty party regarding seduction the EAW relates to the abduction of that child without parental consent.

When a child is abducted and taken out of the country the use of an EAW to help recover that child and return her to her parents and to deal with the abductor is wholly appropriate in my view. Till the law is changed and people can take children abroad without parental permission then I think the authorities have acted correctly.

bb1 wrote:I don't envy whoever has to sort this one out, Greenink. Forrest has undeniably committed offences for he will at least face disciplinary action, but if the full weight of the law comes down on him, then he is liable to appear even more attractive to Ms Stammers.

What teenage girl could possibly resist such a heroic White Knight?

It looks pretty clear that he has in fact broken the law and as the law stands he has in fact abducted a child and taken her abroad without the permission of those in legal authority over her.

I would be very surprised if the CPS does not prosecute him.

As for the relationship, I suspect that it will wither and die as soon as she realises that she has made a fool of herself with a married man who is literally twice her age. Her parents and others (including her friends) will need to persuade her that he has abused her (through his position of trust) and that she still has her teenage years and student years to pass through.

I read somewhere (possibly here) that some people are suggesting this man is not a paedophile. That in fact is precisely what he is if the relationship has developed to an intimate level. He has abused his position of trust with a child. He has committed statutory rape. If a sexual relationship is proven to exist then he is in very serious trouble.

IMO, that is going to be the real problem, Greenink. We can sit back and say, Why on earth did she want to run off with her married, unemployed, former teacher, who is twice her age and not exactly Adonis?

Getting the young lady to understand the folly of this is going to be far harder than finding her was.

bb1 wrote:IMO, that is going to be the real problem, Greenink. We can sit back and say, Why on earth did she want to run off with her married, unemployed, former teacher, who is twice her age and not exactly Adonis?

Getting the young lady to understand the folly of this is going to be far harder than finding her was.

The key to the issue is that he betrayed the trust of a child. I am sure that there will be plenty of advice available to other staff and her parents (and indeed to fellow pupils at the school) as this is by no means the first time such a betrayal has occurred. I have no doubt there are plenty of people who have experience in advising in the aftermath of a paedophile's involvement with a child. It most certainly will not be easy but damage can hopefully be limited. Another aspect to focus on would be the disgusting way he has treated his very young wife .

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:Oh, Good God, I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Some silly little girl seduced some silly little man, for which the might of The European Arrest Warrant has been invoked. Bully for them. This will be the beginning of the end of The European Arrest Warrant. Never in all of my born days have I come across anything more likely to expose just how ridiculous this EAW is. And it will fail on this occasion.
Well done, you all. You have done yourselves, something that I could never have hoped to do. You have proved what a bunch of Tits you all are.

You are making a presumption there. There is just as much likelihood that some teacher in a position of authority over that child "seduced" her.

But no matter which side was the guilty party regarding seduction the EAW relates to the abduction of that child without parental consent.

When a child is abducted and taken out of the country the use of an EAW to help recover that child and return her to her parents and to deal with the abductor is wholly appropriate in my view. Till the law is changed and people can take children abroad without parental permission then I think the authorities have acted correctly.

And you are forgetting that no one dragged her off kicking and screaming. At what age should she be held responsible for what she does?

IMO, we don't know enough about the whole story. The girl's homelife, sounds chaotic - apparently her Mum has just had another child:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/megan-stammers-tearful-mother-tells-1342460

Did Forrest play on this to exploit a love-struck, unhappy teenager on that school trip to Los Angeles (which in itself, is rather mind-boggling)? Was she using him to escape? We just don't know, and it isn't actually our business.

Like I said, I really wouldn't like to be the person who has to sort this out. But if I was Forrest's wife, I would KILL him for humiliating me like this.

Sabot wrote:

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:Oh, Good God, I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Some silly little girl seduced some silly little man, for which the might of The European Arrest Warrant has been invoked. Bully for them. This will be the beginning of the end of The European Arrest Warrant. Never in all of my born days have I come across anything more likely to expose just how ridiculous this EAW is. And it will fail on this occasion.
Well done, you all. You have done yourselves, something that I could never have hoped to do. You have proved what a bunch of Tits you all are.

You are making a presumption there. There is just as much likelihood that some teacher in a position of authority over that child "seduced" her.

But no matter which side was the guilty party regarding seduction the EAW relates to the abduction of that child without parental consent.

When a child is abducted and taken out of the country the use of an EAW to help recover that child and return her to her parents and to deal with the abductor is wholly appropriate in my view. Till the law is changed and people can take children abroad without parental permission then I think the authorities have acted correctly.

And you are forgetting that no one dragged her off kicking and screaming. At what age should she be held responsible for what she does?

I am not forgetting anything of the sort.

The EAW is a matter of law. In law the age is 16 (not fifteen) and with respect to a person who is in a position of trust the age is 18.

Dragging a person "kicking and screaming" is not the only way paedophiles abuse their targets. That is why there is a law against grooming.

bb1 wrote:IMO, we don't know enough about the whole story. The girl's homelife, sounds chaotic - apparently her Mum has just had another child:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/megan-stammers-tearful-mother-tells-1342460

Did Forrest play on this to exploit a love-struck, unhappy teenager on that school trip to Los Angeles (which in itself, is rather mind-boggling)? Was she using him to escape? We just don't know, and it isn't actually our business.

Like I said, I really wouldn't like to be the person who has to sort this out. But if I was Forrest's wife, I would KILL him for humiliating me like this.

Ha! I would just take the house and whatever else is going. Just because I feel vaguely sorry for him doesn't mean that I care about what what happens to him.

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:Oh, Good God, I really can't be bothered with this rubbish. Some silly little girl seduced some silly little man, for which the might of The European Arrest Warrant has been invoked. Bully for them. This will be the beginning of the end of The European Arrest Warrant. Never in all of my born days have I come across anything more likely to expose just how ridiculous this EAW is. And it will fail on this occasion.
Well done, you all. You have done yourselves, something that I could never have hoped to do. You have proved what a bunch of Tits you all are.

You are making a presumption there. There is just as much likelihood that some teacher in a position of authority over that child "seduced" her.

But no matter which side was the guilty party regarding seduction the EAW relates to the abduction of that child without parental consent.

When a child is abducted and taken out of the country the use of an EAW to help recover that child and return her to her parents and to deal with the abductor is wholly appropriate in my view. Till the law is changed and people can take children abroad without parental permission then I think the authorities have acted correctly.

And you are forgetting that no one dragged her off kicking and screaming. At what age should she be held responsible for what she does?

I am not forgetting anything of the sort.

The EAW is a matter of law. In law the age is 16 (not fifteen) and with respect to a person who is in a position of trust the age is 18.

Dragging a person "kicking and screaming" is not the only way paedophiles abuse their targets. That is why there is a law against grooming.

Oh do come on. There is no suggestion of Grooming here. And yes indeed The EAW is a matter of Law. But in France, where they don't get frightfully emotive about some silly little overblown girl who was displaying her cleavage all over The Internet. That alone should have been of some concern to her family. If they even noticed. But they didn't, did they.
Actually, she probably should be thankful that she wasn't targetted by a paedophile. No real harm has been done to her. And what is Sex at her age? Not exactly physically damaging if she was willing. Presuming that this is what happened.

Sabot wrote:

greenink211 wrote:

Sabot wrote:

greenink211 wrote:

You are making a presumption there. There is just as much likelihood that some teacher in a position of authority over that child "seduced" her.

But no matter which side was the guilty party regarding seduction the EAW relates to the abduction of that child without parental consent.

When a child is abducted and taken out of the country the use of an EAW to help recover that child and return her to her parents and to deal with the abductor is wholly appropriate in my view. Till the law is changed and people can take children abroad without parental permission then I think the authorities have acted correctly.

And you are forgetting that no one dragged her off kicking and screaming. At what age should she be held responsible for what she does?

I am not forgetting anything of the sort.

The EAW is a matter of law. In law the age is 16 (not fifteen) and with respect to a person who is in a position of trust the age is 18.

Dragging a person "kicking and screaming" is not the only way paedophiles abuse their targets. That is why there is a law against grooming.

Oh do come on. There is no suggestion of Grooming here. And yes indeed The EAW is a matter of Law. But in France, where they don't get frightfully emotive about some silly little overblown girl who was displaying her cleavage all over The Internet. That alone should have been of some concern to her family. If they even noticed. But they didn't, did they.
Actually, she probably should be thankful that she wasn't targetted by a paedophile. No real harm has been done to her. And what is Sex at her age? Not exactly physically damaging if she was willing. Presuming that this is what happened.

Neither you nor I have any idea whether grooming of some kind by Forrest was involved. It is certainly a possibility though. The police will be far better informed having looked at the phones.

Clearly we differ significantly in our views about this matter. Personally, I am very grateful that there are laws in place to protect all children whether vulnerable or as you seem to think in this case not vulnerable at all. In fact your phrase about this young girl, "silly little overblown girl who was displaying her cleavage all over The Internet." gives me the impression that you have no concerns for her whatsoever.

When any adult in his or her thirties makes approaches towards children it is wrong and is the action of a paedophile. When teachers who are in a very trustworthy position in relation to children and who have every opportunity to influence those children, approach them "romantically" it is, in my view, doubly concerning.

We are not going to fall out about this because I won't allow it. I retain my right to an opinion.

The police would be the least of his worries if I was in his wife's shoes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210269/The-wife-betrayed-Months-fairytale-wedding-husband-hand-hand-Megan-besotted-pupil-14.html

Ms Stammer is on her way home via Easyjet:



Megan Stammers, left, leaves the Bordeaux airport after she sparked an international search when she went missing along with her math teacher

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210423/Schoolgirl-Megan-boards-plane-fly-home-week-spent-missing-married-maths-teacher.html#ixzz27sxoaWf7
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Time, and the courts, will no doubt reveal whether the pair are indeed star-crossed lovers, or whether Forrest is just a sleaze.

I still rather favour sleaze...

The pair were identified after being seen drinking in the HMS Victory pub, on Place General Sarrail on Thursday night.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2210423/Schoolgirl-Megan-boards-plane-fly-home-week-spent-missing-married-maths-teacher.html#ixzz27syRH5eI
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I'm none too sure that going into a fairly well-known Brit-type pub was the brightest of ideas.....