Re: War in Ukraine

**lily** Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:17 am

I would say that's about right. I wonder what the officials here got out of it. mad

**bb1** Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:21 am

First class plane trips to Europe with their wives/secretaries/Brazilian rent boys to 'check the money is being spent properly'?

**lily** Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:26 am

Sounds like a great idea. When the piper calls e.g. IMF etc, to collect what is due, I wonder how they will collect the vast sums owed. That is the most worrying part of all. Who will be indentured to pay it?

**Sabot** Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:59 am

lily wrote:I would say that's about right. I wonder what the officials here got out of it.

No decent Health Care Plan for Americans, that's for sure.

**bb1** Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:13 pm

You've been following the Obamacare saga too then, Sabot? I am in awe of such incompetence - I thought only the UK could dream up messes like that.

**bb1** Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:41 pm

The EU might be well advised to pay more attention to what is happening in its own heartland, instead of acting like the new Holy Roman Empire:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-elections-president-hollande-to-fire-pm-after-local-election-rout-with-far-right-on-the-move-9224716.html

**Sabot** Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:03 pm

Yep. Marine le Pen has gained a couple of something or other. But this always happens when the socialists are let loose.

**Lamplighter** Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:10 pm

Hungary opposed to economic sanctions against Russia: PM

Reuters 2:23 a.m. CDT, March 28, 2014

BUDAPEST (Reuters) - Hungary is against the European Union imposing a round of economic sanctions on Russia over its intervention in Ukraine, Prime Minister Viktor Orban (above) was quoted as saying in an interview published on Friday.

The central European country of 10 million people relies on Russia for about 80 percent of its natural gas needs and recently signed a 10 billion euro deal with Moscow for Rosatom to expand Hungary's Paks nuclear plant, a major power generator.

Russia is also Hungary's largest trading partner outside the European Union, with exports worth 2.55 billion euros in 2013.

"Economic sanctions are in the third round and it would be fortunate to avoid these because it is not in the interests of either Europe, or much less Hungary," Orban was quoted as saying by the business daily Vilaggazdasag.

Messages over the past week from officials in the EU's 11 ex-Communist member states indicated that most are going to resist any attempt by the bloc to impose the next stage of sanctions - on trade and economic ties.

Orban said the Ukraine crisis and the political sanctions since imposed have not affected Hungary's nuclear deal with Moscow so far and that he hoped this would remain the case.

The head of Rosatom, Russia's state nuclear corporation, said on Thursday that some of its international contracts could be affected by Western sanctions, RIA news agency reported.

On Thursday, Hungary and Slovakia connected their gas networks as part of European Union efforts to strengthen supply security in a region of the bloc heavily dependent on imports from Russia.

(Reporting by Gergely Szakacs; Editing by Mark Heinrich).

I think Orbán, a great admirer of Putin, is hedging his bets, walking a fine line between Russia and the EU. Like the UK he ruffles the EU feathers every so often, runs the risk of fines etc, and Hungary is still prevaricating over the Euro. Hungarians don't want to become a province of any other country, nor do they want either the commies or the neo-nazis to take over here, they've had more than their fair share of totalitarian overlords to last twenty lifetimes. LL

**bb1** Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:21 pm

Good for them, LL, sounds as if they're doing what they were elected to do - put Hungarian interests first.

I don't think many Ukrainians realise what they're in for once the IMF and EU get their hooks into the country.

**Lamplighter** Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:36 pm

bb1 wrote:Good for them, LL, sounds as if they're doing what they were elected to do - put Hungarian interests first.

I don't think many Ukrainians realise what they're in for once the IMF and EU get their hooks into the country.

Orbán is totally unpredictable, he bends like a feather in the wind. He is disliked by many Magyar who don't trust him one bit, but then they don't trust the opposition party either. Luckily, Jobbik, the NF party, is not doing incredibly well - their main targets are the Roma peole and the Jews, as is to be expected. The ex commie states value their democracy, they won't give that up to anyone, US, EU, Russia - anyone. LL

**bb1** Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:16 pm

From:

http://news.sky.com/story/1235397/russia-scraps-ukraines-large-gas-discount

Ukraine has lost a discount on its supply from Russian gas firm Gazprom, meaning it will have to pay as much as 40% more for its supplies.

It came after Kiev upset Moscow by approving the holding of joint military exercises with Nato close to Russia's newly annexed region of Crimea.

Alexei Miller, the head of state-owned Gazprom, said the price for the second quarter of the year would be $385.50 per 1,000 cubic metres, up from $268.50 per 1,000 cubic metres.

The Russian discount was part of a financial lifeline Russian President Vladimir Putin offered Ukraine's previous president, Viktor Yanukovych, after his decision to ditch a pact with the European Union in favour of closer ties with Moscow.

The loss of the discount is expected to eventually hit Ukrainian consumers hard. Household gas prices in Ukraine are set to rise 50% from May 1.

The Russian parliament has also moved to annul agreements with Ukraine to rent Russia's Black Sea Fleet's base in Crimea until 2042 for $98m (£59m) a year and discounts for Russian natural gas.

Ukrainian prime minister Arseny Yatseniuk has said the country will need energy from the EU to protect it from the repercussions of its standoff with Moscow, on which it depends for over half its oil and gas.

So it begins. How long before the latest corrupt president is hanging from a lamppost in Kiev?

**lily** Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:55 pm

How predictable was that? Pcorneater

**bb1** Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:11 pm

I actually don't know what else Ukrainians expected to happen, Lily. They've let themselves in for a nightmare, by their own doing. It's not going to end well.

**lily** Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:24 pm

Of course it won't Bonny. I also fear they it will be a nightmare for them. They can't turn back the clock.

**bb1** Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:07 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/02/former-cia-chief-accused-helping-white-house-give-false-narrative-on-benghazi/

Benghazi isn't going away; it could yet be Obama and Clinton's Watergate.

**lily** Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:53 pm

It definitely isn't Bonny, nor should it. The whole issue is scandalous beyond words. mad

**Lamplighter** Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:01 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26857734

**bb1** Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:17 pm

I don't see that ever happening, LL. Though it might have helped matters if he hadn't run away and left a power vacuum. Mind you, we've no idea what scheming was going on behind the scenes; I am maybe being too harsh. I certainly don't believe he was responsible for the shootings.

**bb1** Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:30 am

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/04/02/nasa-suspends-ties-with-russian-govt-officials-over-ongoing-crisis-in-crimea/?intcmp=latestnews

NASA has suspended contact with Russian government representatives, citing ongoing violations of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, according to an internal letter written by a top official on Wednesday.

The authenticity of the letter has been confirmed by Fox News.

“This suspension includes NASA travel to Russia and visits by Russian Government representatives to NASA facilities, bilateral meetings, email, and teleconferences or videoconferences,” states the letter, which was written by Michael F. O'Brien, NASA’s associate administrator for international and interagency relations.

However, ongoing activities at the International Space Station (ISS) have been exempted from the rules, as well as “multilateral meetings held outside of Russia that may include Russian participation.”

There are currently two Americans onboard the ISS.

Utterly childish behaviour. I see the US's other genius idea is to stop co-operating with Russia over efforts to destroy Afghanistan's opium crop.

Smackheads everywhere will be blessing Obama for that one.

**bb1** Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:50 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter-to-stir-unrest/2014/04/03/8a2dc77c-bafa-11e3-80de-2ff8801f27af_story.html

U.S. secretly created ‘Cuban Twitter’ to stir unrest

WASHINGTON — In July 2010, Joe McSpedon, a U.S. government official, flew to Barcelona to put the final touches on a secret plan to build a social media project aimed at undermining Cuba’s communist government.

McSpedon and his team of high-tech contractors had come in from Costa Rica and Nicaragua, Washington and Denver. Their mission: to launch a messaging network that could reach hundreds of thousands of Cubans. To hide the network from the Cuban government, they would set up a byzantine system of front companies using a Cayman Islands bank account, and recruit unsuspecting executives who would not be told of the company’s ties to the U.S. government.

McSpedon didn’t work for the CIA. This was a program paid for and run by the U.S. Agency for International Development, best known for overseeing billions of dollars in U.S. humanitarian aid.

According to documents obtained by The Associated Press and multiple interviews with people involved in the project, the plan was to develop a bare-bones “Cuban Twitter,” using cellphone text messaging to evade Cuba’s strict control of information and its stranglehold restrictions over the Internet. In a play on Twitter, it was called ZunZuneo — slang for a Cuban hummingbird’s tweet.

Documents show the U.S. government planned to build a subscriber base through “non-controversial content”: news messages on soccer, music, and hurricane updates. Later when the network reached a critical mass of subscribers, perhaps hundreds of thousands, operators would introduce political content aimed at inspiring Cubans to organize “smart mobs” — mass gatherings called at a moment’s notice that might trigger a Cuban Spring, or, as one USAID document put it, “renegotiate the balance of power between the state and society.”

At its peak, the project drew in more than 40,000 Cubans to share news and exchange opinions. But its subscribers were never aware it was created by the U.S. government, or that American contractors were gathering their private data in the hope that it might be used for political purposes.

More at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/us-secretly-created-cuban-twitter-to-stir-unrest/2014/04/03/8a2dc77c-bafa-11e3-80de-2ff8801f27af_story.html

One of these days, someone is going to renegotiate the balance of power between the state and society
in the US; I doubt if they are going to like being on the receiving end of efforts to wreck the country and create yet another failed state.

**bb1** Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:03 pm

Users' messages were to be screened, tracking information such as gender, age, 'receptiveness' and 'political tendencies'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595901/The-secret-Twitter-app-swept-communist-Cuba-funded-Obamas-White-House-administration-inspire-dissent.html#ixzz2xp9iWKsv
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

**lily** Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:01 pm

**bb1** Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:26 pm

It's dumb at so many levels, isn't it? It's as if the US is hellbent in destroying every bit of trust that has ever been put in it.

Luring Cuban teenagers onto a fake social site to spy on them - how does that make the US look trustworthy? It's a conspiracy theorist's dream come true, is that. What is this compulsion to cause unrest in other nations - it's not as if nothing needs fixed in America, after all.

**lily** Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:34 pm

I don't trust him one bit.

**bb1** Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:08 am

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/03/ex-cia-official-morell-offers-unorthodox-reasons-for-omitting-key-details-from/

Early on, Morell made a startling claim about the so-called “talking points,” the faulty narrative that initially blamed a protest for the attack.

'Faulty narrative' - must remember that next time we see someone lying through their teeth.

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