Re: Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:32 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2217352/Jimmy-Savile-scandal-Fake-letter-cast-doubt-victims-claims-played-key-role-BBC-decision.html

It should never, ever have been broadcast until matters like that were checked, LL.

Falsifying evidence, in particular faking up police documents, is just not on, whoever does it.

I see some are now trying to claim that Rantzen shouldn't be blamed for not doing anything when she could have, when Savile was alive, because she has done such wonderful work, etc...

That is exactly the same argument that was used to protect Savile from these allegations.

**Lamplighter** Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:39 pm

I will say that, having seen it, and all the resultant responses, then one can only assume that he was in an advanced stage of satyrism, assuming all the allegations were taken as true. LL

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:43 pm

bb1 wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2217352/Jimmy-Savile-scandal-Fake-letter-cast-doubt-victims-claims-played-key-role-BBC-decision.html

It should never, ever have been broadcast until matters like that were checked, LL.

Falsifying evidence, in particular faking up police documents, is just not on, whoever does it.

I see some are now trying to claim that Rantzen shouldn't be blamed for not doing anything when she could have, when Savile was alive, because she has done such wonderful work, etc...

That is exactly the same argument that was used to protect Savile from these allegations.

And Jimmy Savile did a bloody sight more wonderful work than Rantzen ever did. She just put her name to a Phone Line, and then ignored Rumours of Child Abuse. At least Jimmy Savile got off his backside and jogged thousands of miles.

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:48 pm

She assumed she had done something wrong when she tried to scan and send the letter. But she didn't send it again. ORLY.
Haven't we all done that?

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:01 pm

Quite, Sabot. The worst part is, anyone who was genuinely abused by Savile, or anyone else, is being abused all over again when stunts like that are revealed, because it damages the credibility of everyone, not just the forger.

And why aren't contemporary scandals like Rochdale being given the same endless column inches?

If I was a cynical sort, I would almost think this was being done on purpose to divert attention.

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:37 pm

Well, there certainly was a cover up in The Rochdale Affair, Bonny. But there ain't anyone to sue in person. Probably Political Correctness gone mad, but then we all know that it has. And not just to do with silly little girls whose families appear to be totally unaware of what their underaged daughters are doing. But never mind, nail the obviously immature Teacher who ran off with a fifteen year old who went willingly, and to whom I doubt that he did half so much harm. See, that'll sort it. And stop all they 14 year olds getting pregnant and becoming a burden on The State.
And never a scrap of Racial Discrimination in that.

I wait with baited breath to see what The Law will do with him.

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:40 pm

IMO, the time when the truth could have been established, justice done and wrongs righted, is long gone, Sabot - and I DO blame Rantzen for that.

Incidentally, why are the very same people who felt sorry for child rapist Hewlitt hypocritically frothing at the mouth over this?

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:43 pm

And why isn't one single one of them bothered by events in Rochdale?

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:58 pm

bb1 wrote:IMO, the time when the truth could have been established, justice done and wrongs righted, is long gone, Sabot - and I DO blame Rantzen for that.

Incidentally, why are the very same people who felt sorry for child rapist Hewlitt hypocritically frothing at the mouth over this?

Of course it is long gone, Bonny. He's Dead, for Christ's sake. Albeit after apparently rampaging around unchecked for fifty years. When he wasn't raising Forty Million for Charity. But prove him Guilty and I will be the first to be disgusted.

Meanwhile, at least they managed to Convict Hewlett, but apparently that doesn't matter because they never proved he had anything to do with the disappearance of Madeleine. He was only proven to have raped other young girls.

**Lamplighter** Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Daily Telegraph:

Jimmy Savile could be 'one of the most serious predatory paedophiles in criminal history' says Jeremy Vine, Radio Two presenter
By Richard Alleyne11:59AM BST 15 Oct 2012

Jimmy Savile will become known as 'one of the most serious predatory paedophiles in criminal history,' BBC presenter Jeremy Vine said today.
Speaking at Cheltenham Literature Festival Jeremy said that as a dad of two young daughters he finds Savile's actions 'completely disgusting.'
The veteran presenter who has been with the BBC for 25 years and has worked on the Newsnight programme had been asked by one of his audience "If you had been in charge of Newsnight last year what would you have done with the Jimmy Savile story?"
Jeremy replied "This is a complete and utter nightmare.
"The fact that a person was using his BBC prestige and maybe even BBC dressing rooms to attack young children I find completely disgusting as a father of two young daughters.
"I cannot believe that it happened for such a sustained period that we may be looking at one of the most serious predatory paedophiles in criminal history - and he was on our doorstep. I find it disgusting.
"But it is historic because I think it stopped 20 years ago.
"The Newsnight issue is very, very difficult. I think we do need to find out what happened. If the material they shelved was the same material that ITV put out that is very serious - but I am not sure it was.
"The big story is if there was any kind of link up between the hagiographies on BBC 1 and the exposes on BBC 2.
"I think this was a case of the organisation being somewhat dislocated.
"But I don't think anyone had on their desk on one hand the hagiographies and on the other the exposé.
"If that happened it is an absolute scandal but I honestly don't believe that has happened - but they need to find out.
"I don't think the editor took the decision not to run it for whatever reason...but it now looks unfortunately as if they didn't run the expose because they were running the tributes and that is why it is such a toxic thing.
"George Entwistle has got huge integrity and he will find out what happened here. And they are going to have to tell us. It is a really, really big issue."

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:02 pm

And just what is that article supposed to be saying? And just how does he think they are going to find out what happened twenty years ago? Is he another one who is keeping his options open?

I just wish they would all STFU and do something to prove it.

In essence, I don't care about what Jimmy Savile did or didn't do. The time to care was twenty years ago, or more. But there was Insufficient Evidence, and we all know what that means by now. No Evidence At All.
A large number of underaged children were sexually abused, and or raped, but no one could prove it? Not one of them was questioned at the time? They were all ignored? The CPS did nothing, in effect. This of course, is always possible. But then Savile went on to do yet more of it, and no one actually noticed or paid attention to the many past complaints. No one kept a jaundiced eye on him?
I would be sueing The CPS if I was one of the victims.

So who have we got now?

The Police of Several Counties.
The BBC.
The CPS.
Ester Rantzen.
The Local Authorities of Various Detention Centres.
Stoke Mandeville Hospital.
Broadmoor.
The Island of Jersey.

All of whom have loads of money. And no where in any of this is Jimmy Savile even going to have to answer questions.

Let them get on with it, and much joy may it bring them.

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:04 pm

According to MM, "Jimmy Savile visited The Morgue" resulting in possible accusations of Necrophilia.

Try not to laugh. This isn't in the least bit funny.

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:24 pm

The Island of Jersey has lots of money. Rantzen has lots of money.

All the other institutions only have TAXPAYERS' money.

And Vine isn't helping; can you blame Newsnight for dropping their expose, now the truth about that letter has come out? When someone has worked out how forging a letter helped the 'victims'' cause in any way, please, let me know. It is exactly that kind of stupidity that leads to abuse victims not being believed when they should be.

Do I think Savile was messing around with under-age girls? Yes, I do - and he should have been stopped a long time ago. Do I think every single wild allegation flying around is true? No, I don't. One 'victim' has done time for cheque fraud and another tried to pass on forged documents to Newsnight. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?

The best thing anyone could do now is go to the police - not the media, and not ambulance-chasing lawyers who are advertising for 'victims', the POLICE.

The only reasons those McCann-hating freaks are in the slightest bit interested in this - and not in other, more current, and vastly more serious child abuse cases - is that they can spin conspiraloon crap, precisely because it is historic.

It's as stupid as us trying to blame Grime for Hillsborough and other failures of South Yorkshire police, but when did they ever let reality stand in their way?

Just ignore them, Sabot, that's the kind of thing they enjoy 'discussing'. If they are now getting agitated about stories about a dead bloke and dead bodies, then they had better send for Ghostbusters.

Any chance of any of them taking their heads out of the sewer and focussing on what is ACTUALLY going on in the world, and the UK, right now?

If I was cynical, I might be tempted to think this was a false flag stunt by the government to distract the populace from matters that really would upset them, if they could stop talking about pervy dead DJs long enough.

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:53 pm

Well, MM can hardly be sued for accusing a dead bloke of doing unsavoury things with dead bodies, can they. So I suppose it was bound to come up.

Personally I think that the worst he was guilty of was a bit of groping, but then there was a lot of it about, yesterday when I was young. But prove that if you can.
I once sat through an entire film in a cinema with some bloke's hand on my knee because I didn't quite know what to do, but then he was hardly likely to rape me in a crowded cinema. And I can't say that it damage me in any way. Although I do have to say that I had no idea of what rape was in those days. I was sixteen at the time, and if I had made a fuss or told my parents, then I would never have been allowed out on my own again. And what good would it have done anyway?
Just as this is not going to do any good.

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:59 pm

A lot of the really sicko stuff is being stirred up by that vile anti-Semitic angirfan, or whatever it is the creature calls itself, Sabot, and none of these idiots who are lapping up every word seem to be capable of seeing what the real agenda of the revolting creature is. Which is their problem; if they choose to believe neo-nazis, who are we to stop them?

I always found a slap in the chops worked wonders in ridding oneself of pests, but then that's just me. Pcorneater

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:16 pm

I think I was a bit too used to being slapped in the chops by my own family in those days, Bonny. But that is by the by.
You can get groped quite a lot around here these days, but I am no more likely to make a fuss about it now than I was then. I just move away and say, "Behave yourself."

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:58 pm

These people simply do not care about the truth, do they?

Snifferdog wrote:
All one needs to go and do is browse eg aangrifan website........

No, thank you very much, people here had a 'browse' and discovered it was anti-Semitic, racist propaganda. But what does it say about those who hang on every sick word?

**Lamplighter** Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:38 pm

Latest:

Independent Savile probe ruled out
Press Association – 1 hour 24 minutes ago

Culture Secretary Maria Miller has dismissed calls for an independent inquiry into the Jimmy Savile scandal but took a swipe at the BBC for failing to broadcast its own television investigation into allegations against the presenter.
The Cabinet Minister told MPs the corporation had acted "inappropriately" when it pulled a Newsnight film into sex abuse claims against the late DJ and broadcaster but said she was "now confident" BBC chiefs were taking the claims "very seriously".
Labour Deputy Leader Harriet Harman said there was widespread "revulsion" that the allegations of systemic assaults took place at the beloved "aunty", the affectionate nickname for the institution, and claimed the the star's "exalted" status allowed him to act with impunity.
Ms Miller said the allegations had "wide-ranging implications for a number of public institutions" but rejected calls for an outside inquiry to restore the public's faith, warning it could hamper police investigations.
"In terms of a wider inquiry, we have a police investigation on-going at the moment," she said. "Everybody would agree that it is really important that those individuals who have been victims know that that investigation can go on unfettered and that that should be our priority at this stage."
She added: "The BBC has launched three separate investigations, as the House will be aware. The first will look particularly at the allegations with regard to the item on Savile which was inappropriately pulled from Newsnight."
Ms Harman said: "What has deepened the revulsion is that this happened at the BBC, an institution so loved and trusted it is known as aunty. This has cast a stain on the BBC."
Commons culture committee chairman John Whittingdale said the Director-General George Entwistle had offered to appear before the committee next week and said he was "sure" MPs would take him up on the offer.
Police believe the DJ and television presenter's alleged catalogue of child sex abuse could have spanned six decades and included around 60 victims.
Mr Entwistle announced last Friday that two inquiries would be launched into the abuse claims. One will look into whether there were any failings over the handling of the abandoned Newsnight piece. A second independent inquiry will look into the "culture and practices of the BBC during the years Jimmy Savile worked here", Mr Entwistle said.

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:45 pm

That sounds almost rational....

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Scrub that, LL, she's had to apologise already...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/government-pressed-savile-probe-132507371.html

Culture Secretary Maria Miller has been forced to deny she was prejudging a BBC inquiry into Jimmy Savile, after she inadvertently accused the corporation of "inappropriately" pulling a Newsnight film into sex abuse claims against the late DJ and broadcaster.
Aides said that Ms Miller got her words wrong as she made a statement to the House of Commons about investigations being undertaken by the BBC.
A printed version of the speech said that one of the BBC reviews would look into "allegations that an item on Savile was inappropriately pulled from Newsnight", but the Secretary of State in fact told MPs it would address "allegations with regards to the item on Savile which was inappropriately pulled from Newsnight".
The Department for Culture, Media and Sport said that Ms Miller had no detailed knowledge of the decision to pull the Newsnight package, which was dropped last year shortly before the broadcast of BBC tributes to the former presenter of Top of the Pops and Jim'll Fix It.
"The Secretary of State has not prejudged the outcome of the BBC's investigation into the pulling of a Newsnight item on Savile," a DCMS spokesman said.
"As the Secretary of State made clear in the House, it is for the BBC, not ministers, to investigate these allegations."

Ms Miller later apologised in a message on Twitter, saying: "Sorry if Savile statement unclear. Referring to 'allegations' that Newsnight item was pulled inappropriately. Not prejudging BBC inquiry."

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:17 pm

Oh, that's nice. Certain people are now admitting that they don't know what they are talking about. That'll go a long way towards convicting a dead man.
"I think he is guilty but I don't actually know."

Jeesus Bloody Christ. This gets more farcical by the minute. Someone will be asking who he is in a minute. "You know, that Paedo. What's his name?"

**lily** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:31 pm

I've got an idea, Sabot. They could hold a seance and ask Jimmy questions? Pcorneater

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:51 pm

It's as sensible as anything else at present, Lily.

What happens if it turns out Newsnight was right to drop the report because there was no evidence forthcoming? The promised evidence, which they didn't get, turned out to be a forgery, anyway.

What happens if the ITV show turns out to be based on material which was not genuine? It only takes ONE piece of faked 'evidence' for the whole thing to collapse. Anyone who thinks otherwise should remember how many criminal trials have collapsed because the police have been suspected of falsifying evidence.

It was beyond stupid to do that. And not even a BBC letter - it was a police document.

ETA, did 'Fiona' even go to the police to begin with, or is her whole story a pack of lies? If so - stupid, silly, woman.

**Sabot** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:57 pm

lily wrote:I've got an idea, Sabot. They could hold a seance and ask Jimmy questions?

You don't think he would fall for that one do you, Lily? Oh Dear Me, No.
Knock, knock, who's there? Is that Sir James Savile? No, sorry. He's gone jogging down under. Under where? Yes, that's it. Underwear.

**bb1** Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:05 pm

I am surprised no-one has put in a claim for damages caused by passive smoking.

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