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Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary

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Post  lily Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:32 am

How horrible. mad
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:39 am


I am not wild about The BBC, LL, but for heaven's sake, why go to such lengths to effect a cover up?
It is obvious by now that they cancelled the programme because they discovered that a lot of the evidence was dodgy, to say the least.
And I bet there are a few people who wish they'd kept their mouths shut instead of going off on a politically correct breast beating exercise in an attempt to make themselves look sainted and duped.
Although I must say that I find it difficult to believe that The Director General of The BBC didn't know that the documentary was being made.

So what now? Will they declare him Pothsumously Guilty? Probably. After all, it won't be a first.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:45 am

The media was bound to do it, Lily, as soon as people got sick of photos of Savile in his underwear.

And the secretary seems to have changed her tune since the interview in yesterday's Mail in which she SUPPORTED Savile.

I wish the media would shut up about the whole thing, and let the police investigate. I have decided I automatically disbelieve anyone who goes to the media, instead of the police. Apart from anything else, the more heat and noise there is, the less chance there is of getting to the truth.
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:58 am


I don't know about anyone else here, but I was certainly groped, and so were a lot of my girl friends at the time, and while no one actually enjoyed it, we did laugh about it, and advised each other of who to steer clear of.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:31 am

Is this the last person in Britain to believe Jimmy Savile was innocent? Loyal PA says 'victims are jumping on the band-wagon for money'
Janet Cope met Savile while doing charity work at Stoke Mandeville Hospital in 1971, where it is alleged predatory paedophile abused underage children
'I just think they are jumping on the bandwagon. I think they know what money is', says Mrs Cope, 70, who denies accusations against the former DJ


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218003/Savile-victims-jumping-band-wagon-motivated-money--says-PA.html#ixzz29YDu9uSq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

That DIRECTLY contradicts the Record piece. This is ridiculous. And most certainly does not help get anywhere near the truth.
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Post  Lamplighter Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:43 am

The Record's piece is dated 15 Oct, the Mail's 17 October. She's done an about-face, probably scared stiff she might get accused of being 'in the know' which might be levelled at her as she was his PA for all that time. Is it possible she wasn't aware of what was going on? LL
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:47 am

I couldn't even begin to guess, LL, the whole thing is out of control. Some interesting comments, though - I am relieved to read that the entire population of the UK hasn't gone mad.
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Post  lily Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:55 am

It never ceases to amaze watching how humans can behave. Pcorneater
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:20 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/998814/saviles-aide-lost-for-words-over-claims

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 10 Ins-jimmy-savile-28-1-522x293

Janet Cope pictured with Savile in 1979

She's groping him Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:29 pm

bb1 wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/998814/saviles-aide-lost-for-words-over-claims

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 10 Ins-jimmy-savile-28-1-522x293

Janet Cope pictured with Savile in 1979

She's groping him Shocked Shocked Shocked

Now that is obscene.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:33 pm

I am truly vomit at pictures of Saville half-naked, he wasn't exactly Arnie...

A rather less vomit point has been raised.

How does it work for a head of Sky News to be investigating BBC's Newsnight, given that Murdoch/Sky have long been campaigning for the BBC licensing fee to be abolished?

With which I agree, by the way, but I suspect things are not as black and white as they seem.
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Post  lily Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:42 pm

As most of you know, I worked in entertainment for years. I have also seen more than my share of certain things. This story is not new it is just that there is a scramble to make money.

It was kept quiet in my time. Pcorneater
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Quite, Lily. It is impossible to say anything rational about this without being extremely politically incorrect.

Hypothetically, what happens if it turns out Newsnight were correct to pull the report, because they had been promised evidence of a cover-up that simply was not forthcoming? And when it did see light of day, turned out to have been forged?

Where does that leave ITV for lighting the fuse on this, without checking properly? Rantzen's head has already rolled, despite her crocodile tears on the ITV show.

IMO, there are allegations of abuse that DO have substance, and need further investigation - by the police. Whether anything can come of those allegations, following this witch-hunt by the media, I do not know.

Paradoxically, one of the easiest ways to carry on covering things up is to let the media whip up hysteria, and then let all the genuine complaints be discredited by the bandwagon-jumpers who smell compo.

IMO, there is a great danger of this happening, and a year from now, we will be no nearer the truth. Time will, as ever, tell.
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Post  Lamplighter Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:07 pm

There do seem to be some people with a sense of how this is now a bad farce. LL

Iain Martin is one of Britain's leading political commentators. A former editor of The Scotsman and deputy editor of The Sunday Telegraph, he's currently writing a book about the financial crisis. As well as this blog, he writes a column for The Sunday Telegraph. You can read more about Iain at iainmartinpolitics.com.

A Jimmy Savile inquiry? We might as well launch an investigation into the entire 1970s
By Iain Martin Politics Last updated: October 17th, 2012

Ed Miliband is still calling for an inquiry into the Jimmy Savile scandal. The Labour leader points out that there are now several inquiries running in parallel, alongside the police investigation. There are inquiries at the BBC, at the Health and Home Departments, at Broadmoor, and at assorted charities which the vile old charlatan managed to worm his way into. Miliband suggests bringing all these efforts under one roof. Presumably it would be a judge-led inquiry. Almost everything else seems to be these days.

The heart sinks. The tales of some of the victims are horrific, of course. Savile was a predatory paedophile who was somehow deemed a "national treasure" even though many millions of us – even as children – could see just from watching TV that he was a weirdo. All the time he was abusing.

But to deal with specific allegations the criminal law can be – and is being – put to work. The complication is obviously that the perpetrator is dead, but if there were alleged accomplices who are still living then they can expect a knock on the door from the police. Beyond that, if there are claims for compensation on the grounds of institutional negligence then the courts are also the appropriate place for it to be dealt with.

But an overarching inquiry? We might as well hold a public inquiry into the entire 1970s.

Clearly, Savile exploited the fact that in the late 1960s and early 1970s a baffled BBC, along with plenty of other institutions, was struggling to comprehend the explosion of youth culture and the impact of the sexual revolution. As others have observed, the BBC – until the end of the 1950s a Reithian, stiff upper lip, arbiter of British morality – didn't understand what was happening at rapid speed to the country. So it improvised a response.

A few years back the BBC produced a smug, knowing drama which satirised the events of that period. The campaigner Mary Whitehouse was portrayed as a stuffy, nagging nuisance blocking the path of liberalism, progress and sex. In the dramatisation, the DG of the day – Hugh Carlton Greene – was elevated to the status of a liberal demi-God. He was the leader of the younger, sophisticated BBC executives who were determined that they and the corporation should somehow "get with it".

But what did silly old Mary Whitehouse say? Didn't she warn that the liberal revolution would blur the lines between childhood and adulthood, and that the obsessive sexualisation of our culture was problematic? Was she too voracious in her campaign, making her easy for smart arses to caricature? Of course, but more than forty years on – surveying the foetid swamp in which Jimmy Savile was permitted to operate – it is surely worth recognising that she had a point.

It was in a state of confusion that the BBC of the 1960s established Radio 1, Top of the Pops and much else besides. To present and produce these new programmes, BBC bosses needed people who seemed to have some affinity with youth culture or the ability to talk the new lingo. Many of those it alighted on were perfectly good broadcasters and fine human beings. Jimmy Savile wasn't. But he came from the north, he understood the dance halls and clubs of the era (we now know how and why), he had stupid hair and he had a gift for daft catchphrases. With these qualifications he was hired, and presented the first edition of Top of the Pops in 1964.

He steadily attained the status of mini pop star, by the act of playing records and clowning around. In this endeavour he was a pioneer: famous only for being famous, with no discernible talent. Of course, he was several rungs below the people who actually made the records. But he had money, proximity to the real stars and license to do as he wished in his dressing room and beyond, because the BBC didn't want to be stuffy and stifle the "creativity" of those who were deemed to be "with it".
The great liberal myth of that period is that ever greater freedom naturally has positive effects and produces progress. Bring down all the barriers – on sex, drugs and, yes, rock 'n' roll – and you increase the scope for human happiness. Yet this assumes that all those who stand to benefit have good motives. To Jimmy Savile, and some other bad people, the BBC's rampant liberalism turned out to be just one giant opportunity to do harm to others who should have been protected.

This is not to say that the 1960s were without tremendous gains. Incredibly, homosexuality was illegal until 1967. British society is generally more relaxed and less uptight.

But in terms of sexual politics, it should be understood that the cultural revolution of the 1960s was a curiously one-sided affair, in men's favour. Although there were obvious benefits for women and men, it was not the mutually beneficial, rolling "summer of love" of myth. From the cynical males of the hard Left who saw free love as a one way bet, to the Savile types who regarded it as a "groper's charter", to the ramblings of various pop and rock stars well into the 1970s, it was an era characterised by sexism and even misogyny. Listen to certain songs of the period, from the Stones "Stupid Girl", through "Under My Thumb" and on, later, into the Faces "Stay with me". There was also a flirtation in some lyrics with the notion of women being under the age of consent. The Rolling Stones "Stray Cat Blues" from their 1968 album Beggars Banquet is a particularly notorious example.

Inevitably, by the mid-1970s, many of the rock stars, libertines and agitators of the 1960s had moved on. The rock stars had often headed into tax exile, living in large houses where they made bad records, drunk themselves to death or installed a gym and collected expensive art.

Extremist liberalism, however, continued transmitting itself into wider British culture as the 1970s got going. Meanwhile, after a decade riding the coat-tails of the revolution, Savile had been made untouchable. Astonishingly, he had been accorded that supposed national treasure status by the BBC, which meant his victims were too scared to speak out.

Those of us who grew up then – even those of us lucky enough to have been shielded and raised in a well-protected environment – know that the 1970s had some very dark aspects. But the era doesn't need the attention of a judge-led inquiry ordered by politicians who weren't even born when Savile introduced the first Top of the Pops. Instead it needs a good historian prepared to write a decent book on it.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:22 pm

Thank Heavens some people have retained a bit of common sense. Can you imagine what would happen if every groupy who has now decided, naturally after 'therapy', that she was actually groped by a Stone...or just about any of the bands around then...demanded heads must roll?

That illustrates what I mean about sorting the chaff from the wheat. I really don't see how someone who appears to have followed Savile around the country in the hope of cigarettes, records and tickets for TOTP, can be put in the same category of someone who was pounced on, for want of a better description.

That piece also sums him up rather well, professionally. I never did like him, he was always an Establishment figure, man.Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 10 C010
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:52 pm


I could give them a few tips on what went on, and how it all came about. One of the biggest problems was that a lot of women were brought up to believed that they were second class citizens, and a large number of women of my generation still do. It was and is ingrained. But suddenly you weren't labelled a tart if you appeared to be a bit free and easy, even if you weren't. Mothers suddenly wanted better for their daughters, but failed to see where it was going with men who still believed that women weren't entitled to respect. What respect? No one had ever taught them that one. Women were still ownable objects to them.
I can remember suddenly realising that I was entitled to an opinion, but that no one had taught me how to deal with it. What to say when some man told me to shut up because I didn't know what I was talking about, although my opinion was no less well informed that theirs was. So I generally shut up rather than cause a row.
Do some of you remember women manning the ammunition factories and other male bastions during The War? They were all driven back to their kitchens when The War ended. Put back in their places before they got above themselves.
And then came The Pill. That's what triggered The Revolution. No more need for fear and shame. But sadly still no respect.

And I don't much care what people think of this, but boy children are still more important in general. It's the only half decent thing that I have ever managed to do, or so I have been led to believe.

Sorry, I still get a bit angry about the whole thing. And it won't be over until my generation is dead.
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Post  greenink211 Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:58 pm

Lamplighter wrote:The Record's piece is dated 15 Oct, the Mail's 17 October. She's done an about-face, probably scared stiff she might get accused of being 'in the know' which might be levelled at her as she was his PA for all that time. Is it possible she wasn't aware of what was going on? LL

The Record is dated today and the Mail is 15th (but updated to today). I read the Mail piece yesterday very early am and don't actually see any difference in what I read yesterday to what is showing in the updated edition today other than that I don't recall the car photo yesterday.

Its hard to tell from those two different accounts what the truth is about what the woman believes. In fact its the perfect example of why the anti McCann scum like @JillyCL and @veniviedivici are such abject fools for constantly posting links to newspaper articles as if they have the slightest validity as truth.

In fact I have just saved the two pages to keep as examples as to why the media is such a totally useless standard of truth. LOL
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Post  greenink211 Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:20 pm

I have to say that the Iain Martin piece in the Telegraph is as reasoned a piece I have yet seen on the Savile case. It is not a matter of judging just his behaviour but doing so in context. And the investigations are getting in the way of the real job of dealing with any actual crimes.

Edited to correct spellings.


Last edited by greenink211 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:42 pm

Not only did she voluntarily put up with his beastly ways for over thirty years, he even gave her away on her wedding day...

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 10 Article-0-158340C9000005DC-430_634x421

I always thought it was the bride who wore white, but hey ho, that's showbiz.

I don't envy the police having to try to sort this out, Greenink. What happens if, after all this drama - and money - nothing happens? I would not be at all surprised if it turned out that Newsnight were ruled to be correct to pull their report, as nothing could be substantiated.

And what was 'Fiona' or whoever it was, thinking about when she forged that letter purporting to be from the police? You simply cannot do things like that and expect to be believed.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:00 pm

"He was always photographed with what he called dolly birds because he was terrified of growing old or being seen as old," the former PA went on.

Now that has the ring of truth to it, given the times, and also chimes in with what Sabot said.... But this was taken in 2000:

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 10 Article-2214899-15624906000005DC-84_634x899

and they are STILL hanging off him.
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:06 pm


Yer, like I said. A lot of women are still having trouble in believing that they are worth better.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:14 pm

I would say they have actually gone backwards, Sabot, due to some of them thinking they are failures as human beings if they don't have silicone implants and 34E bras. There would appear to be MORE bimbos around now, not less.

Thank Heavens I won't be around in 40+ years when wrinkled, saggy ex-bimbos start appearing with complaints about being Groped by Russell Brand.
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Post  Lamplighter Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:15 pm

It is interesting, the mindset sabot mentioned. I would never have thought of fondling any female; I do hold with the premise that it is okay to appreciate a lovely woman, to pay her compliments that are sincerely meant but never, ever to be familiar with her. Maybe it's the Viennese influence, who knows? LL hmmm
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Post  Sabot Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:32 pm


The breast implants are synonymous with the lack of worth. Some women want to be sex objects for some inexplicable reason. Maybe because they think it is their only real purpose. Which in line with procreation is probably true.

I have this Theory that men who grope aren't actually getting enough, if any at all. And let's face it, Jimmy Savile was no oil painting, so perhaps he had a problem getting anyone to actually love him, or even fancy him. But generally speaking, and in my experience, gropers aren't actually dangerous.
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Post  bb1 Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:37 pm

Maybe because he had so many hanging around, giving every impression of thinking he was sex on legs, he assumed that every young girl he came across felt the same way about him? Which they clearly didn't.
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