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Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary

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Post  Sabot Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:40 pm

Sorry I missed this Thread until now. And I couldn't agree more with the general consensus of opinion. And I'm not sure if he didn't just accept what was thrown at him, if even that.
Is there any suggestion that any of these girls were underage? And if so, what were they doing there? Has anyone asked? Not that there could be much of an excuse. But he is Dead, for Christ's sake. He can't defend himself, or prove that it isn't true. None of these girls can be questioned or asked to prove what they say.

And ~Jeezuz, how sickening to watch these supposedly responsible adults jump on the bandwagon with such speed, when they say that they were suspicious all along, and at the time. They make me want to vomit.
Libel a dead man. Nothing in Law says they can't do that. So just what good is this going to do for anyone?
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Post  bb1 Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:10 pm

A lot of them were quite undeniably underage, Sabot. BUT - when you were fifteen, would your parents have let you vanish into men's hotel rooms and dressing rooms, so you could prance around on telly in tiny hotpants? Mine certainly wouldn't. Given the culture of the era, it was vastly more stupid than Ms Stammers' recent antics with her teacher.

Why did no-one ever slap his face and tell him to get his hands off? Are they seriously claiming that girls in an Approved School, for shoplifting,etc.,in the 70's, were too shy and timid to tell him to keep his cigarettes, show tickets, records, etc.?

IMO, about 10% of the allegations are serious enough, with enough substance, for the police to investigate, not least because some of those involved with him (assuming it was some kind of 'sex ring' and not just Saville being a dirty old man chancing his luck) may still be alive, and in positions of authority.

Obviously, the police have to do a lot of digging into matters of that nature.

But as for that hypocrite Rantzen - IMO, she knew perfectly well what was going on, but didn't care as the BBC part of it only involved a bunch of giggling groupies, and she was otherwise engaged in breaking up Desmond Wilcox's first marriage and backstabbing her own way to the top.

As was pointed out to her this morning, she has as good as destroyed Childline - what's the point in any abused child contacting them when the founder didn't do anything to stop abuse that was allegedly happening right under her nose?
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Post  Sabot Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:28 pm


Oh My, for Child Line, Bonny. Any Yes she was busy breaking up the marriage of Desmond Wilcox.

And No, neither I at that age, or any daughter of mine would have been anywhere near such possible goings on. The Working Classes never were stupid about dirty old men, if that is what he was.
I just don't get bringing it up like this now. Who started this? Was it one of the girls? Is it his rather large Estate that has motivated this?
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Post  bb1 Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Freddie Starr was named by one of the 'victims'. Which may be why he is extremely angry, due to it showing every sign of being a false and malicious accusation by someone who apparently has a book coming out:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-child-abuse-freddie-1365548

Thing is, it only needs two or three false allegations to come to light, for the whole thing to be thrown out, including the genuine allegations. Which would not be good.

Oh, perish the thought anyone should be smelling compo money, or have a book to promote, Sabot. As if!
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Post  bb1 Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:48 pm

....And the conspiraloons are off:

Gael ‏@GaeMar01
NO! T @TimesCrime: Call by @ThePhoenixPost (incl Sara Payne) to appoint Jim Gamble, ex-head of CEOP to lead an inquiry into #Savile #McCann


Personally, I would have thought he was the ideal person, as he is media-savvy enough to sort the chaff from the wheat, and is well-qualified after his work with CEOPS.
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Post  bb1 Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:59 pm

Gael ‏@GaeMar01
Celebs please do not talk of being groped if you are not going to use names - we want facts only. #leveson #McCann @BBC @BBCnews #bbc


Speak for yourself, dear, most people can happily do without any more tales of 'groping' in their morning papers.

The groped can take themselves down to Scotland Yard - you know, the real police? - and tell them about it.

Because it actually has nothing to do with some obsessive troll on twitter, does it?
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Post  bb1 Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:24 pm

Here's a turnup for the books - seems Starr did cross the path of the one who named him:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214785/Freddie-Starr-forced-admit-mistaken-TV-footage-unearthed-1974.html

That said, she's unrecogniseable now as the same person. And I wish the papers would stop using photos of Saville in shorts and not much else, it isn't a pretty sight.
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Post  Lamplighter Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:30 pm

Jimmy Savile: Cameron Hints Over Knighthood
Sky News – 12 minutes ago

The committee which looks at rescinding honours may want to consider Sir Jimmy Savile's knighthood following sexual abuse allegations against him, the Prime Minister has told Sky News.
When asked about the growing number of accusations against the late TV and radio presenter, who was knighted in the Queen’s Birthday Honours list in 1990, David Cameron said: "I think every institution has to ask themselves all the right questions.
"The BBC clearly has important questions to ask. We have in Britain something called the forfeiture committee - I don't sit on it, or chair it, or direct it - but it's the committee that looks at whether honours should be rescinded and I'm sure that they will obviously want to do their jobs as others have to do theirs."
The Jim'll Fix It Star, who died aged 84 a year ago, also received an OBE in 1971 for services to charity and broadcasting.
But the Cabinet Office said Savile no longer had a knighthood to revoke, as individuals cease to be a member of the order when they die.
"It's a living order and then you cease to be a member when you die," a spokesman said. "There isn't an honour to revoke."

However, a campaign by The Sun newspaper is calling for a change in the law so that honours can be revoked posthumously by the forfeiture committee.
Meanwhile, the chairman of the BBC Trust has said allegations of sexual abuse by Sir Jimmy over a number of years while he worked for the broadcaster cannot be excused as behaviour from a time when "attitudes were different".
Lord Patten has also given his full backing to inquiries by police and the corporation.
Speaking at a business dinner in Cardiff, the BBC chairman said it was "no excuse to say 'that was then' in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, and attitudes were different then".
He told the Cardiff Business Club: "It's no excuse to say, 'I'm sure the same thing used to happen with pop groups and others at the time'. Those things may be true but they don't provide an excuse."
His comments came after BBC director-general George Entwistle apologised to the alleged victims and pledged the corporation would hold its own inquiry following a police probe.
Lord Patten echoed Mr Entwistle's announcement and outlined how the BBC would act.
He said: "There will be a full police inquiry and we will encourage people to co-operate with it, and when that is completed, we will then look at the issues which still remain to be resolved in a way which will have to command credibility in the wider community."
Mr Entwistle, who started in his new role last month, spoke of deep regret about the ordeals of the women involved in the "awful allegations", and said there would be a "comprehensive examination" of what went on.
Last week the BBC said it would work with police in examining the claims and Mr Entwistle wrote to staff urging them to come forward with information.
Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Monday, he said: "These are awful allegations that have been made, and they are criminal allegations.
"And the first thing I want to say is that the women involved here have gone through something awful, something I deeply regret they should have to go through, and I would like to apologise on behalf of the organisation to each and every one of them for what they've had to endure here."
A growing number of women have come forward to claim they were either abused - many of them under-age - or that they saw others who were victims.
A number of former colleagues have also told how they were aware of rumours about the former Top Of The Pops presenter.
Unease about the claims has led to a number of memorials to the star being removed, including an inscription on the wall at Leeds Civic Hall in recognition of his charity work and a street sign in Scarborough, North Yorkshire.
Former Radio 1 DJ Liz Kershaw told over the weekend how when she joined Radio 1 in 1987 - the year Sir Jimmy left - his behaviour was an "open secret" at the station.
She described how she was routinely groped by another presenter as she was broadcasting.
Broadcaster Janet Street-Porter previously revealed she was aware of rumours about the television and radio presenter's alleged abuse of under-age girls when she worked at the BBC in the late 1980s.
Police child abuse officers have met BBC officials to discuss the allegations.
Officers said they were contacting all individuals who have made claims about the late presenter and should know how many reported victims there are some time this week.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Oh God, not more 'groping' stories and pictures of Saville in his underpants? He must have had more tentacles than an octopus.

I wonder when these lovelies are going to decide they were 'groping' victims?

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 3 Article-2214899-15624906000005DC-84_634x899


The late DJ and television presenter surrounded by girls at a Radio 1 event near his home in Leeds in 2000


I am sorry if I sound cynical about the whole thing, I am trying not to.

IMO, about 10% of the grope-ees have GENUINE cause for complaint, but as for the rest of them...

That photo ^^^^^ was taken THIRTY YEARS after stories started swirling round Savile, and still there were gaggles of them hanging off him. No doubt they will be coming forward shortly having 'remembered' they, too, were Groped.

Something else gave me cause for concern.

The young ladies who were being detained in the Approved School for shoplifting, etc., looked forward to visits from him. Not only did he give them ciggies, records, confectionery, etc., they also got driven around in his Roller, and they all considered Groping a small price to pay for such delights.

That story has been rewritten as him scooping up helpless waifs from a 'special needs residential home'.

Which paints a very different picture from what actually happened. But is so much more PC than the truth.

And any witch-hunt being led by Rantzen always makes me smell rats.

The police investigating all this are in a no-win situation. I suspect they are going to quickly discover that about 10% of the allegations are justified, but that so much time has passed, and Saville is dead, there really isn't much to be done except make an official report.

There will then be shrieks of, Masonic cover-up! from the Usual Suspects, and Grope Hysteria will continue unchecked.
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Post  Sabot Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:57 pm

I would like to know what chance there is of proving any of this. Beyond a reasonable doubt, that is. Not much, I would say.

Oh, and I still want to know who started this.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:14 pm

It blew up last week, Sabot - I didn't watch the documentary, just read reports. It then started spreading like wildfire, and Rantzen threw petrol on the blaze.

Can you imagine the police who have to investigate this?

Police officer:

So, Savile kidnapped you from the playground of your Special Needs school?

Grope-ee

Nah, me an my mates arranged to meet him like we always did, had a bit of a tour in the Roller an waved out the window.

Them ciggies an records an stuff he gave us were right handy for tradin with the screws.

Course we had to put up with the dirty old b*gger havin a bit of a grope, but men're like that, ain't they?

And don't you be callin it any Special Needs school. It was a proper Approved School, what you got sent to when you'd been caught nickin from Woolies.


--------------------

Everything like that is going to be thrown in the bin, and I don't actually care if it isn't Politically Correct to say so.

I have no doubt that there are, in amongst all the Groping, instances where he did sexually abuse vulnerable young people, but that particular baby is likely to be thrown out with the bathwater which is all the rest of the Groping for gifts.

It could have been, and should have been, stopped thirty years ago. Odd, isn't it, that the one person who was in a perfect position to stop it is leading the witch-hunt now?

That smacks to me of ar@e-covering.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:18 pm

BTW, is there any difference between Savile and this leading McCann-hater?

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 3 Twitpervs2a
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Post  Lamplighter Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:21 pm

bb1 wrote:BTW, is there any difference between Savile and this leading McCann-hater?

Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 3 Twitpervs2a
To be truthful, if I had to choose between savile and that one, I know who I would choose. Dirty old man jimmy may have been, maybe, but I don't think he would post up comments like that. LL
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Post  Lamplighter Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:57 pm

Mirror Online: BRIAN READE COLUMN

Given too much charity: Many of us suspected Jimmy Savile and did nothing

ONE of the weirdest stories I have ever covered was the laying in state of Jimmy Savile in a Leeds hotel last year.

One huge, gold-effect Vegas coffin, two This Is Your Life books, three cigars in an ashtray, and a crowd filing through like pilgrims at Lenin’s tomb writing messages such as: “God Fixed It for you to go to heaven.”

It left me with the same spooky, sickly “this isn’t right” feeling I’d had whenever I looked at Savile in his gold tracksuit, bangles, and dyed white head, doing that strange yodel noise behind eyes that tried to appear full of love but looked eerily dead.

Many of the pilgrims were weird too.
I asked one about the sexual allegations that had dogged Savile and he ­answered: “How dare you call him a bad man? He raised £40million for charity. How much have you raised?” Which seems to have been the stock defence that allowed this ­paedophile to operate all of his adult life. Come back with your dirty allegations when you’ve built a hospital wing, they said. The man’s a saint, so how can he be a sinner?

It’s very easy, now women are coming forward to state they were molested by Savile, to get angry at those who suspected his crimes and did nothing.

Very easy to say that the BBC, Paul Gambaccini – who claims he knew of his colleague’s proclivities for 30 years, the TV producer who saw him with his hand up a 14-year-old’s skirt and the ­executive who knew he’d spent the night in a hotel with a 12-year-old, are all complicit in the most heinous of crimes.

But the truth is, many of us, including journalists like myself, suspected and did nothing.

Back in the 90s Savile used to answer the phone to us ­reporters with the words: “She told me she was over 16.” And we laughed it off.

Where were our ­exposés? Instead of ­arguing with our editors that this warped man should be hung out to dry, we preferred to crack jokes about it.

Far easier to write “Now then young lady, you asked if I could arrange for you to take a butchers at my old miner’s lamp.

"Well goodness, gracious me, you’re in luck tonight, darling,” than to front him up and damn him.

The truth is that we ­allowed ourselves to ­believe that Savile could never be nailed.
We accepted there was no will on high to out ­someone who was looked on so fondly and who raised so much for charity. He was too Establishment. Tragically his victims felt the same way.

A quote from 18th century philosopher Edmund Burke has been going through my head this past month.

I thought it when the truth about Hillsborough was finally exposed, and we learnt how policemen had allowed their statements to be changed by a black propaganda unit which condemned bereaved families to 23 years of hell.

I thought of it reading about the Rochdale child abuse cover-up, when police and the local council were warned dozens of times that vulnerable girls were being groomed and raped by gangs of men, and did nothing.

The quote: “All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.”

Remember it next time you hear a weak voice accusing the powerful of crimes that you’d like to believe they are incapable of committing.

And try to do something.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:33 pm

That's a lot saner than much of the material that has been appearing over the past week, LL, thanks.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:56 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/995418/savile-complaints-of-abuse-since-1959

Savile: Complaints Of Abuse Since 1959

2:37pm UK, Tuesday 09 October 2012

Scotland Yard say they have received complaints of alleged sexual abuse by Jimmy Savile stretching back four decades.

According to detectives the NSPCC has recieved seventeen allegations against Savile and 21 allegations of sex abuse by others. Officers currently have 120 lines of inquiry from alleged victims, witnesses and third parties.

Among the claims, Scotland Yard has recorded two rape allegations and six indecent-assault allegations. The youngest alleged victim is 13 years old.

Sky's crime correspondent, Martin Brunt, who attended a briefing by officers at Scotland Yard, said: "This information relates to a joint assessment between Scotland Yard officers and the NSPCC.

"Somebody from the NSPCC was involved in this briefing and he talked about 40 calls so far to its hotline. They wanted it to be made clear that those 21 other allegations about people who are not Jimmy Savile, were not necessarily related or connected to Jimmy Savile in any way".

Police were reluctant to confirm whether these allegations related to people from the entertainment or show business world.

According to Dr Peter Spindler, the commander in charge of the assessment, these lines of enquiry do not constitute a new investigation, though a new investigaiton could likely lead from the assessment and not only into Jimmy Savile.

Dr Spindler stressed there was currently no evidence or allegations to suggest a sex ring operation within the BBC.

More follows...
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Post  Sabot Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:30 pm


It's getting worse. But just what is the point now? Who is it going to help? There will be a lot of people who will wish that this had been left to lie.
For God's sake, even I heard the rumours many years ago, but no one has ever actually proved anything, and they certainly aren't going to now.
If it is true then there are people out there who are every bit as much to blame, but at least they will get a chance to defend themselves.

Okay. Line up the victims. Measure the apparent damage it has done to them. Award them points out of ten for performance. And then hand out some dosh. They could even turn it into Poll with Television Audiences voting on it. Oi'll give er Foive. [Thousand, that is]
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:37 pm

Don't give them ideas, Sabot....
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:44 pm

More now:

http://news.sky.com/story/995418/jimmy-savile-complaints-of-abuse-since-1959

Dr Spindler stressed there was currently no evidence or allegations to suggest there was a 'sex ring' operating within the BBC.

He said: "The reality is this really has captured the public's mind. We are getting calls from victims, from witnesses and third parties who believe they know something about it.

"We have formally recorded eight criminal allegations against Savile. Two of those are rape and six of indecent assault. These are primarily against girls in their mid-teens, so between the ages of 13 and 16, and it spans four decades of abuse".

Scotland Yard has been in contact with ITV and the BBC to gather information and they are contacting alleged victims to see if they will co-operate.

"We believe there are probably another 20 potential victims," Mr Spindler added. "It is too early for us to give you an accurate picture of what these new lines of inquiry will distill down to but we believe we will come up with between 20 to 25 victims.

"The pattern of his offending behaviour does appear to be on a national scale," he said. Mr Spindler added that police will produce a joint report with the NSPCC to look to see what lessons can be learned and what conclusions can be drawn, which can be shared with other agencies.

NSPCC director Peter Liver, said: "Our primary involvement is to be there for adults who want to report concerns related to Jimmy Savile or any other individual, for that matter.

"We have a 24/7 helpline and we are encouraging adults who want to talk to us about Jimmy Savile to contact us and the trained counsellors are there to take calls.

"In the past five days we have had 40 calls to the helpline, relating to this matter and of those 40 calls, 17 relate specifically to Jimmy Savile and we have passed those calls on to the Metropolitan Police inquiry".

Scotland Yard refused to be drawn on whether the Metropolitan Police paedophile unit or any other child-protection squad had ever investigated Savile.


==============

The reality is this really has captured the public's mind.


Translation:

Oh b*gger, why have I been dumped with this media circus?
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:20 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9594658/The-Jimmy-Savile-scandal-is-inciting-some-ugly-emotions-radio-review.html

The Jimmy Savile scandal is inciting some ugly emotions, radio review

Gillian Reynolds reviews the week's radio, including the Any Questions? debate considering the accusations against Jimmy Savile and The Report's (Radio 4) examination of the Hillsborough disaster.

On Radio 4’s Any Questions? last Friday, after the panel had chewed over both the new “One Nation” appellation for the Labour Party and the debacle of the West Coast rail franchise, a woman asked whether it was time, as Jimmy Savile is dead, to lay the stories about him to rest?
Opinions on the panel, as they always must on Any Questions?, differed. Meanwhile, in cars and kitchens all over the country listeners will have been telling their radios whether they agreed with Claire Fox (who replied, on the whole yes, since no real justice can be done in this case since the accused is dead) or Dominic Raab MP, Stephen Twigg MP and union leader Mark Serwotka (absolutely not, these are serious issues which took too long to come to light, a fundamental principle is at stake, these were vulnerable teenagers). For once, I am with Claire Fox on this.
Like her, I have great sympathy for the victims yet over the past week I have grown daily more suspicious, not of the accusations against Savile, but of the media storm surrounding them, both before and after the transmission of the ITV documentary in which they were made. Is the incessant and universal attention to this story happening because of the possibility of righting a wrong or because, in a creepy way, the story is exciting (even inciting) some very dubious emotions?
I have little doubt that some of Savile’s activities were appalling, probably even criminal. He said as much himself in his autobiography. I knew one of his Radio 1 producers, now dead, who was appalled by his behaviour and said so at the time. I can think of several living former BBC executives who so far seem to have avoided all invitations to comment. I’d like to know who nominated Savile for his knighthood.
But when, as here, the explosive combination of prurience and vengeance are let loose upon the airwaves, I tend to wonder for whose benefit.
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Post  Sabot Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:38 pm


Sorry to keep on about this, but some individual must have brought this up, to have started it going in the first place. Who was it? It is just not good enough to bring these accusation to the attention of The Public without saying who was the first one, and where he or she got her information.
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Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary - Page 3 Empty Re: Jimmy Savile accused in ITV documentary

Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:53 pm

Can't answer that, Sabot. The stories have been doing the rounds for decades, then it all seemed to blow up last week, as in LL's OP about the documentary.

There is something rather unsavoury about the hysteria, the media is whipping up a McCarthy-ist witchhunt, IMO.
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Post  Sabot Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:16 pm


Jimmy Saville won't care, that's for sure. But some others might have bitten off a bit more than they thought they might have to chew.

No good will come of this.
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Post  Lamplighter Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:06 pm

Jimmy Savile: Up To 25 'Victims' Over 50 Years
Sky News – 1 hour 30 minutes ago

Up to 25 young girls were allegedly sexually abused by Sir Jimmy Savile over a period spanning four decades, Scotland Yard has revealed.
The Metropolitan Police force said it received 17 allegations of sexual abuse against Sir Jimmy and 21 allegations against others, after the NSPCC set up a hotline for people who believe they were abused by the TV presenter.
Officers say they now have 120 lines of inquiry from alleged victims, witnesses and third parties.
Among the claims, police say they have recorded two allegations of rape and six allegations of indecent assault. The youngest alleged victim is 13 years old.
Sky News' crime correspondent Martin Brunt, who attended a briefing by detectives at Scotland Yard, said: "This information relates to a joint assessment between Scotland Yard officers and the NSPCC.
" The NSPCC say they have received about 40 calls so far to their hotline. They wanted it to be made clear that those 21 other allegations about people who are not Jimmy Savile, were not necessarily related or connected to Jimmy Savile in any way.
"I think we now have acceptance by the investigators that the scale of this is truly big and growing. The officer in charge spoke about 13 calls which have come in just today".
Police were reluctant to confirm whether the new allegations related to people from the entertainment or showbusiness world.
According to Dr Peter Spindler, the commander in charge of the assessment, the new lines of inquiry do not yet constitute a new investigation, though an investigation could lead from the assessment, and not only into Sir Jimmy.
Dr Spindler stressed there was currently no evidence or allegations to suggest there was a 'sex ring' operating within the BBC.
He said: "The reality is this really has captured the public's mind. We are getting calls from victims, from witnesses and third parties who believe they know something about it.
"We have formally recorded eight criminal allegations against Savile. Two of those are rape and six of indecent assault. These are primarily against girls in their mid-teens, so between the ages of 13 and 16, and it spans four decades of abuse."
Scotland Yard has been in contact with ITV and the BBC to gather information and they are contacting alleged victims to see if they will co-operate.
"We believe there are probably another 20 potential victims," Mr Spindler added.
"It is too early for us to give you an accurate picture of what these new lines of inquiry will distill down to but we believe we will come up with between 20 to 25 victims.
"The pattern of his offending behaviour does appear to be on a national scale," he said. Mr Spindler added that police will produce a joint report with the NSPCC to look to see what lessons can be learned and what conclusions can be drawn, which can be shared with other agencies.
NSPCC director Peter Liver told Sky News: "Our primary involvement is to be there for adults who want to report concerns related to Jimmy Savile or any other individual, for that matter.
"We have a 24/7 helpline and we are encouraging adults who want to talk to us about Jimmy Savile to contact us and the trained counsellors are there to take calls.
"In the past five days we have had 40 calls to the helpline, relating to this matter and of those 40 calls, 17 relate specifically to Jimmy Savile and we have passed those calls on to the Metropolitan Police inquiry.
"What matters in terms of closure is that we are there to listen to them and talk to them. But perhaps most importantly - and this is what we know time and time again from victims of sexual abuse - that we actually come out and say to them 'we believe you'.
"That expression of support is very important in terms of closure for these victims. Obviously, Jimmy Savile is no longer here to answer to the abuse so our focus is the victims."
Scotland Yard refused to be drawn on whether the Metropolitan Police paedophile unit or any other child protection squad had ever investigated Sir Jimmy.
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Post  bb1 Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:12 pm

Thanks, LL. I think I will stick to reading straightforward statements by the police, and avoid any more Daily Wail hysterics - apart from anything else, I really don't want to see any more photos of Savile in his underpants. vomit
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