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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:41 pm

Doesn't it look absolutely ridiculous?

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What the Hell was it doing?

I'm not surprised a lot of people seem to have swum ashore.

Not that they should have had to.....

I would have gone for a bracing dip in the Med, Sabot, with a warmer afterwards in the nearest bar; I would have been more scared of what the ship was liable to do next than water that even at this time of year will be warmer than the sea off Scotland is in summer.

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Post  Sabot on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:55 pm


I have never recovered from being pushed in the deep end of a swimming pool wearing a terry towelling suit. I very nearly drowned while everyone looked laughing, and I only had to swim about two feet. I gave up water after that.
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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:58 pm

On Breaking News, the company officials are saying it hit a rock.

Yes, we know, we can see said rock stuck in the hull....

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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:23 pm

Sabot wrote:
I have never recovered from being pushed in the deep end of a swimming pool wearing a terry towelling suit. I very nearly drowned while everyone looked laughing, and I only had to swim about two feet. I gave up water after that.

Ah right...I think I could swim just about as soon as I could walk. Anyway, I've paid out money to swim in the Med before now biggrin

I think I would have been absolutely terrified that the ship was going to roll, or bits of superstructure would start breaking off at that angle; I don't think I could have just stood, or rather, clung on, there when safely was so close at hand.

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Post  Sabot on Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:32 pm


I need a snorkel and mask to take a shower. I actually carry a snorkel and mask in my van. Just in case. Someone stole my air bottles, or I would carry those as well.
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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:31 pm

I see quite a few of the crew were Portuguese, Pedro, but thankfully, were rescued with minor injuries?

It's early days, and we shouldn't rush to judgement, but I just cannot see what on earth it was doing so close to shore.

It must have gone into that rock with some force, for the rock to actually get stuck in the hull. And the rock has been down there for hundreds of thousands of years - the ancient Romans, the local fishermen, will all have known it was there.

I've just seen this on the Sky site:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16148897

Maritime officials were questioning Capt. Schettino about the incident as it emerged he was at least four miles off course when the ship hit.
Local prosecutor Francesco Verusio confirmed the captain and the ship's first officer Ciro Ambrosio had both been detained in custody on suspicion of abandoning ship while passengers were still in danger and multiple manslaughter.
Mr Verusio added that the Concordia had approached the island of Giglio ''the wrong way'' and had struck a reef on its left hand side causing it to take in an ''enormous amount of water in a matter of minutes.''
Sources in the prosecutor's office said that the 52 year old captain from Naples had abandoned the ship at ''around 23.30'' while many the last passengers were not taken to safety until 3am the following morning.
There have been claims from furious passengers that the evacuation was ''chaotic'' and carried out amid scenes of panic with some comparing it to the Titanic - whose 100 year anniversary is in three months' time.
Capt Schettino told maritime investigators that charts showed he was in waters deep enough to navigate.

And that he had struck an unidentified rocky outcrop of the island and once he realised the extent of the damage he immediately tried to change route and head for the safety of Giglio harbour.


===================

Another one abandoning his ship while there were still passengers on board - three and a half hours before the last one was rescued.

If true, he should be damn well ashamed of himself for such cowardice.

Remember the plane that had to land in the Hudson after its engines were destroyed by a bird strike? And not only did Captain Sullenberger and the crew land it safely, he refused to leave until he was sure every single passenger was safely off, even though it was sinking under him?

That's what people in positions of such responsibility are supposed to do, not get their own sorry butts to safety as quickly as possible.

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Post  Lamplighter on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:02 pm

The captain has now been arrested and accused of manslaughter. CNN 23.00 LL
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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:06 pm

About 40 people are still unaccounted for, seemingly, LL, which can't be good nearly 24 hours on?

I don't think anyone watching this can quite believe their eyes, yet. I actually don't understand how on earth he managed to hit that rock, on one of the biggest, most high tech ships on the ocean..

And yes, I do know what that just sounded like.

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Post  Pedro Silva on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:13 pm

bb1, your words are mine:

"I just cannot see what on earth it was doing so close to shore."

About " most high tech ships on the ocean.", I wonder if the captain was instructed, through the manufacturers company, on how to use all the technology to prevent this.
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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:22 pm

I simply cannot make sense of it, Pedro - and as for the captain abandoning the passengers - your country is like Britain, it has a long sea-faring tradition, and captains just don't do things like that...

No surprises what the headlines are:

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Scarey thing is, it is horribly like Titanic, with a rock instead of an iceberg, what with her flooding when she shouldn't have, lifeboats not being able to launch....

Thank the Lord it was so close to shore - well, just about onshore.

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Post  Pedro Silva on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:49 pm

I have to ask: doesn´t the captain of the ship knows that onshore, the waters are not so deep as in the middle of the ocean?

I´m not an expert, but even I know this.

Again, doesn´t the ship had technology that allows to check it properly? Surely that the ship had such technology, but, probably, those responsible for the ship, also responsible for the safety of passengers weren´t teached on how to use such technology, it was because of being onshore that this happened:

shallow waters.

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Post  bb1 on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:58 pm

I know, Pedro. I just don't believe this story about the ship hitting an uncharted rock.
Those waters have been sailed and fished for thousands of years; I don't believe one of the world's biggest liners somehow managed to hit the one and only rock that no-one knew about.

We should get more news tomorrow; right now, I can't even begin to work out how the captain managed to do this.

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Post  Pedro Silva on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:03 am

yes bb1, you´re right.

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Post  Sabot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:41 am

If the compass and other stuff were effected they might not have realised where they were. And it was dark.
But I guess they should still have seen the lighthouse.

However, the mistakes were just too much for it to have been plain incompetence. Something odd happened, I think.
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Post  bb1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Oh Lord, people are still being found inside the hull;

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16149327

A third survivor has been rescued from a cruise liner that capsized off the coast of Italy - hours after a couple on honeymoon were found alive inside the ship.

Rescuers have been banging on the doors of the ship cabins in the non-submerged part of the vessel and started hearing replies in the early hours of this morning, a fire chief said.
The third person saved was the ship's cabin service director Manrico Giampetroni who is thought to have a broken leg.
He was rescued from the stricken vessel on a stretcher which was winched up to a helicopter.
Earlier, a pair of South Korean newlyweds who had been stranded two decks below on the half-submerged Costa Concordia were brought safely to shore a day after the disaster.
The couple, in their late twenties, are said to be in good health.
Around 17 people are still unaccounted for, 11 passengers and six crew members, after the ship ran aground near the island of Giglio, off the Tuscan coast, late on Friday.


The islanders seem to have done wonders in helping get people both out of the water, off the ship, and into homes, etc., considering there were about four times as many people on the ship as on the island.

And this is a very good question;

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16149404

Travel writer Simon Calder told Sky News: "I look at it and think 'how could you possibly have fatalities in the 21st century on a very routine voyage off the coast of Italy?'
"It simply doesn't make sense."
He said there is a "new breed of ships which are vast structures supposed to be equipped with every possible safety measure in force".


Indeed; I thought this business of every bulkhead flooding after damage to the hull was sorted out after that big boat went down 100 years ago; now, what was its name again.....?

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Post  Sabot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:32 pm


The Titanic had water tight compartments. That's why they thought it couldn't sink.

Incidentally, there is something called Harmonic Interference caused by generators which can bugger up the steering, causing the boat to go off course. This boat was four miles off course and did have a power surge prior to the collision.
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Post  bb1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:42 pm

I have been reading about the harmonic interference, Sabot. Possible, but I am not convinced.

I would not be at all surprised if no-one was on the bridge using Number One Eyeball.

Worth a read:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16563732

quote;

Shipping experts say they are puzzled as to why such a modern and well-equipped vessel should have run aground in well-charted waters.

The £300m ($460m) ship had been travelling in calm seas, along a familiar route.

How it came to deviate from its course by 3-4 nautical miles - and why it capsized so quickly - will be central for investigators trying to establish the cause of the accident.

The investigation will focus on why a modern ship, with the latest safety equipment, travelling on the same route it travels 52 times every year, seemingly veered off course and hit what the cruise company has described as "a big rock".


Indeed; and I don't believe the rock was uncharted, in waters that have been sailed and fished for thousands of years.

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Post  Sabot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:07 pm


The trouble is, Bonny, if he wasn't were he thought he was then he wouldn't have expected the rock to be there because he thought the boat was somewhere else.

This Harmonic Interference happened to The Queen Elizabeth2 a couple of years ago, but she was in deep water at the time, so no harm done.

The boat appears to have capsized because it needs more depth than it had to stay afloat, and not necessarily because of the intake of water. This actually makes sense.
Also, The Captain steered the boat closer to shore after the collision in an attempt to make a rescue easier, so he does appear to have had his wits about him.

I know that this is silly, but seeing that great boat floundered has seriously upset me.
Stupid, stupid. Lives are more important than an inanimate object, but we don't call them She for no reason.
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Post  bb1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:16 pm

Agree, Sabot, I think it has upset a lot of people, seeing it lying there like a huge, broken Lego toy - a reminder that human beings still aren't all that smart.

I am none too sure about this 'deliberate beaching' story. If true, well, at least the captain did something right - but why did he and other crew members then abandon ship hours before most of the passengers were off, never mind the ones who are still trapped below?

This is worth reading:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086826/Forget-women-children-man-Cruise-liner-survivors-nightmare-scenes-people-fought-escape-sinking-ship.html

Yet again, it seems to have been left to the ship's entertainers, pastry chefs, etc., to try to bring some semblance of order to the evacuation.


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Post  Lamplighter on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:21 pm

Figures of missing down-sized, now 11 passengers, 6 crew. LL
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Post  Sabot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Who knows why he abandoned ship, if in fact he did. He could have been taken off under escort to prevent him messing with evidence. The Italian Police were on the scene pretty quick. But they have the ship's Black Box now.

Sorry, I am just trying to be logical. There was no great danger of the ship sinking beneath the water, so The Captain was never in any danger of his life. And I really cannot see him abandoning ship for the sake of his own safety. This is no tin pot organization, and he will be a Captain of some experience and standing.
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Post  Pedro Silva on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:35 pm

according captain´s words (I watched it at Portuguese news): in the navigation chart, no one mentioned the rock. The ship were also using the traditional navigation system.

I wonder: what kind of navigation chart manufacturers are to not to write the existence of that rock.


Last edited by Pedro Silva on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  bb1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:05 pm

That sounds pretty much the same as the report I just saw on Sky, Pedro - frankly, I don't believe it. A stretch of water that has been a busy sea lane for thousands of years? That rock would have been known about long ago.

And sadly, there seems to be no doubt that the Captain and senior crew members jumped ship, Sabot - I've just seen some mobile footage of a lifeboat attempting to launch.

It was total chaos, with the poor waiters and entertainers trying to keep order.

It's bad enough that the death toll seems to be around the twenty-mark just now; it could have been far, far worse, in such chaos and panic.

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Post  bb1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:06 pm

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16149523

Cruise Ship Company: Captain 'Made Errors'

There may have been "significant human error" made by the captain of the Costa Concordia, the cruise liner's owner has said.

Costa Cruises said in a statement published on its website that the route the vessel was sailing appeared to have been "too close to the shore".
It added that Captain Francesco Schettino's judgment in handling the emergency appeared "to have not followed standard Costa procedures".
"While the investigation is ongoing, preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship's master, which resulted in these grave on sequences," the company said.
"We are working with investigators to find out precisely what went wrong aboard the Costa Concordia."

The statement comes as Captain Schettino insisted he was last to leave the sinking ship as he gave his account of the disaster.
He was detained on Saturday on suspicion of multiple manslaughter after the boat ran aground off the Tuscan coast.

Officials have suggested that he left the boat before all of the passengers were off.
But Schettino told reporters he was the last to leave the boat and said rocks had not been detected by the vessel's navigation system.
He said: "What happened is that while we were moving with a tourist navigation system, as you can see by the rip (in the ship) there was a lateral rock projection.
"Even though we were sailing along the coast with the tourist navigation system, I firmly believe that the rocks were not detected as the ship was not heading forward but sideways as if underwater there was this rock projection.
AMATEUR VIDEO REVEALS PASSENGER TERROR

"I don't know if it was detected or not but on the nautical chart it was marked just as water at some 100-150m from the rocks and we were about 300m from the shore, more or less.
"We shouldn't have had this contact."
When he was asked who was the last to abandon ship he replied: "We were the last to leave the ship."
The captain's account was refuted however by prosecutor Francesco Verusio.
Asked whether Schettino had fled before all of the passengers had left the vessel, Mr Verusio replied: "Unfortunately, I must confirm that circumstance."
The accusation was supported by several passenger accounts.
Ophelie Gondelle and David Du Pays of Marseille, said they saw the captain in a lifeboat, covered by a blanket, well before all the passengers were off.

"The commander left before and was on the dock before everyone was off," said Ms Gondelle, 28, a French military officer.

"Normally the commander should leave at the end," said Mr Du Pays, a police officer who said he helped an injured passenger to a rescue boat.
But the captain's lawyer hit back at the accusations claiming that the skipper's skilful actions had averted an even more serious disaster.
Bruno Leporatti said: "My client understands the reasons why he has been detained but as his legal representative I would to like to say that several hundred people owe their lives to the skill of the commander of the Costa Concordia."
According to the Italian navigation code, a captain who abandons a ship in danger can face up to 12 years in prison.


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Post  bb1 on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:46 am

Sixth Body Found On Italian Cruise Ship

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A sixth body has been found on the stricken Italian cruise ship Costa Concordia, Italian authorities have announced.

The male passenger was found wearing an orange life jacket, of the type given to passengers rather than crew.
Fire official Luca Cari told state radio Monday that the victim was a man, found in a corridor in the part of the ship that was still above water.

The latest discovery comes after coastguard divers discovered the bodies of two elderly male passengers in the submerged part of the vessel.
They were later identified as 86-year-old Italian national Giovanni Masia and 68-year old Spanish national Gual Guillermo.

The other three who died after the liner ran aground near the island of Giglio, off the Tuscan coast, have reportedly been identified as two French passengers and one Peruvian crewman.
One of the victims, a man aged in his 70s, is thought to have died of a heart attack caused by the shock of the icy water when he dived in during the chaos.
Rescue workers were continuing to search the Costa Concordia in an attempt to find the 14 people still missing after it sank with more than 4,200 passengers and crew on board.
At least one young child is believed to be among the nine passengers and five crew unaccounted for.


More at:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16149821

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