Disaster for Amaral - Prosecutor Backs Marcos Correia, Professor Dores

Sabot wrote:Well, we all know about The Malicious Accusation supposedly leveled at Jane Tanner, although that would have been a Malicious Accusation in itself. Robert Murat's Lawyer must have seen the light, if indeed he ever intended to bring a Charge in the first place, because we heard no more of that.

I don't know if this makes sense, or even what Marcos actually said, but Amaral wasn't actually convicted of personally Torturing Leonor Cipriano, despite the fact that The PJ appear to have a different opinion, along with a lot of other people. So what Marcos actually said is obviously very important, although I doubt that he is a fool. If he simply accused Amaral of being involved in the Torture, then Amaral must have been off his head because it is a proven fact that he was involved. He was Convicted for Christ's sake. So what exactly has Amaral done by bringing Charges of Defamation?
Can you be Charged with Gross Stupidity in Portugal? Or are you allowed to fly in the face of a Court Ruling.

To me it is all down to the use of words, and this is were the language barrier is difficult for us.

Marcos accused Amaral of having been involved.

crazytony wrote:Remind me again about Amaral' alleged Doctorate in law.
Is it the same as Bennett's solicitor's license?

Contrary to popular pitchfork theory, the title "Doctor" in Portugal is not quite the same as that in many other countries such as the UK - where the progression of Undergraduate, portgraduate study may then lead on to a doctoral thesis leading to the award of a PHd.

Amaral has a a first degree in Law. Therefore he can call himself "Doctor Amaral"
______________________



In Portugal, up to recent times after the completion of an undergraduate degree – except in architecture and engineering – a person was referred to as doutor (Dr.) – male or doutora (Dra.) – female. The architects and engineers were referred by their professional titles: arquitecto (Arq.) and engenheiro (Eng.).

Nowadays Portugal is a signatory to the Bologna process and according to the current legislation the title of doctor (doutor, doutora) is reserved for graduate holders of an academic doctorate.[33] Physicians, graduates in medicine, are usually referred to by the title Dr. (doutor) even if they have not been awarded a doctoral degree.

However, custom gives the legislation little strength and all graduates keep their titles, and those with a doctorate are referred as Professor Doutor.

Many thanks J-P.

crazytony wrote:

Sabot wrote:Well, we all know about The Malicious Accusation supposedly leveled at Jane Tanner, although that would have been a Malicious Accusation in itself. Robert Murat's Lawyer must have seen the light, if indeed he ever intended to bring a Charge in the first place, because we heard no more of that.

I don't know if this makes sense, or even what Marcos actually said, but Amaral wasn't actually convicted of personally Torturing Leonor Cipriano, despite the fact that The PJ appear to have a different opinion, along with a lot of other people. So what Marcos actually said is obviously very important, although I doubt that he is a fool. If he simply accused Amaral of being involved in the Torture, then Amaral must have been off his head because it is a proven fact that he was involved. He was Convicted for Christ's sake. So what exactly has Amaral done by bringing Charges of Defamation?
Can you be Charged with Gross Stupidity in Portugal? Or are you allowed to fly in the face of a Court Ruling.

To me it is all down to the use of words, and this is were the language barrier is difficult for us.

Marcos accused Amaral of having been involved.

Thank you, Tony. Did Marcos do this before Amaral was Convicted? Not that this would make much difference because depending on the use of words, it could have been only an Opinion.
And just as a matter of interest, I had to change that last sentence, just by moving one word. I originally wrote, "It could only have been an opinion." There is a difference.
Like what Bennett did with, "Only a Hypothesis", when in fact what was actually said was, "The only Hypothesis."

Sabot wrote:

crazytony wrote:

Sabot wrote:Well, we all know about The Malicious Accusation supposedly leveled at Jane Tanner, although that would have been a Malicious Accusation in itself. Robert Murat's Lawyer must have seen the light, if indeed he ever intended to bring a Charge in the first place, because we heard no more of that.

I don't know if this makes sense, or even what Marcos actually said, but Amaral wasn't actually convicted of personally Torturing Leonor Cipriano, despite the fact that The PJ appear to have a different opinion, along with a lot of other people. So what Marcos actually said is obviously very important, although I doubt that he is a fool. If he simply accused Amaral of being involved in the Torture, then Amaral must have been off his head because it is a proven fact that he was involved. He was Convicted for Christ's sake. So what exactly has Amaral done by bringing Charges of Defamation?
Can you be Charged with Gross Stupidity in Portugal? Or are you allowed to fly in the face of a Court Ruling.

To me it is all down to the use of words, and this is were the language barrier is difficult for us.

Marcos accused Amaral of having been involved.

Thank you, Tony. Did Marcos do this before Amaral was Convicted? Not that this would make much difference because depending on the use of words, it could have been only an Opinion.
And just as a matter of interest, I had to change that last sentence, just by moving one word. I originally wrote, "It could only have been an opinion." There is a difference.
Like what Bennett did with, "Only a Hypothesis", when in fact what was actually said was, "The only Hypothesis."

After he was convicted but, before the final appeal was heard.

Jean-Pierre.t50 wrote:

crazytony wrote:Remind me again about Amaral' alleged Doctorate in law.
Is it the same as Bennett's solicitor's license?

Contrary to popular pitchfork theory, the title "Doctor" in Portugal is not quite the same as that in many other countries such as the UK - where the progression of Undergraduate, portgraduate study may then lead on to a doctoral thesis leading to the award of a PHd.

Amaral has a a first degree in Law. Therefore he can call himself "Doctor Amaral"
______________________



In Portugal, up to recent times after the completion of an undergraduate degree – except in architecture and engineering – a person was referred to as doutor (Dr.) – male or doutora (Dra.) – female. The architects and engineers were referred by their professional titles: arquitecto (Arq.) and engenheiro (Eng.).

Nowadays Portugal is a signatory to the Bologna process and according to the current legislation the title of doctor (doutor, doutora) is reserved for graduate holders of an academic doctorate.[33] Physicians, graduates in medicine, are usually referred to by the title Dr. (doutor) even if they have not been awarded a doctoral degree.

However, custom gives the legislation little strength and all graduates keep their titles, and those with a doctorate are referred as Professor Doutor.

Well that makes sense, and thank you, Jean Pierre.

I once met this utterly charming School Teacher on an Italian Beach, and he told me that he was a Professor, which he was in Italy. I nearly ran off with him. Wish I had now.

crazytony wrote:

Sabot wrote:

crazytony wrote:

Sabot wrote:Well, we all know about The Malicious Accusation supposedly leveled at Jane Tanner, although that would have been a Malicious Accusation in itself. Robert Murat's Lawyer must have seen the light, if indeed he ever intended to bring a Charge in the first place, because we heard no more of that.

I don't know if this makes sense, or even what Marcos actually said, but Amaral wasn't actually convicted of personally Torturing Leonor Cipriano, despite the fact that The PJ appear to have a different opinion, along with a lot of other people. So what Marcos actually said is obviously very important, although I doubt that he is a fool. If he simply accused Amaral of being involved in the Torture, then Amaral must have been off his head because it is a proven fact that he was involved. He was Convicted for Christ's sake. So what exactly has Amaral done by bringing Charges of Defamation?
Can you be Charged with Gross Stupidity in Portugal? Or are you allowed to fly in the face of a Court Ruling.

To me it is all down to the use of words, and this is were the language barrier is difficult for us.

Marcos accused Amaral of having been involved.

Thank you, Tony. Did Marcos do this before Amaral was Convicted? Not that this would make much difference because depending on the use of words, it could have been only an Opinion.
And just as a matter of interest, I had to change that last sentence, just by moving one word. I originally wrote, "It could only have been an opinion." There is a difference.
Like what Bennett did with, "Only a Hypothesis", when in fact what was actually said was, "The only Hypothesis."

After he was convicted but, before the final appeal was heard.

Wow, I am impressed, Tony. So no sweat then. It could only have become a problem if Amaral's Conviction had been overturned, although probably not even then, since he was seen as Guilty at the time. But his Conviction wasn't overturned, so that's the end of that.

Sabot wrote:

crazytony wrote:

Sabot wrote:

crazytony wrote:
Marcos accused Amaral of having been involved.

Thank you, Tony. Did Marcos do this before Amaral was Convicted? Not that this would make much difference because depending on the use of words, it could have been only an Opinion.
And just as a matter of interest, I had to change that last sentence, just by moving one word. I originally wrote, "It could only have been an opinion." There is a difference.
Like what Bennett did with, "Only a Hypothesis", when in fact what was actually said was, "The only Hypothesis."

After he was convicted but, before the final appeal was heard.

Wow, I am impressed, Tony. So no sweat then. It could only have become a problem if Amaral's Conviction had been overturned, although probably not even then, since he was seen as Guilty at the time. But his Conviction wasn't overturned, so that's the end of that.

I believe J-P will know better than I on this. Amaral wasn't termed guilty until all his appeals had been heard?

I think that technically, that is the situation, Tony, but Portuguese law is a minefield.

bb1 wrote:I think that technically, that is the situation, Tony, but Portuguese law is a minefield.

I personally cannot see anyone indicting Marcos for stating what had been found to be proven in The First Court of Law. Marcos might have been forced to withdraw his accusation if the verdict had been overturned, but that is all. Otherwise it makes a mockery of the whole system, and the next thing you know everyone will be innocent until it reaches the Court of Human Rights.
And if this were to be so, why was Leonor Cipriano locked up as Convicted prior to her Appeal?

A reminder of what the Ministério Público said in the course of telling Gonc to take a hike.


In an article published a report on torture that association, Gonçalo Amaral, now retired, was mentioned as one of the torturers of Leonor.

In closing arguments, the representative of the MP held that the acquittal is justified because it was proven that there really was torture, practiced by members of the PJ at the premises of police in Faro, even not having been able to prove exactly who tortured.

And that is the PROSECUTOR - he would normally be speaking FOR Gonc. I did think all along that the Portuguese authorities might be going ahead with this ridiculous case to finally, totally, and publically, demolish Amaral after all the damage he has done.

And with Cristovao's legal entanglements - well, worms have turned and those thugs are no longer strutting around like Masters of the Universe.

Notice how they have all gone quiet? Flores, Sargento, Carvalho - the whole clique. Not forgetting Morais.

Purely my own prediction, but I think Amaral and Cristovao, at the very least, are going to be facing new charges over the PROVEN torture of Leonor Cipriano. I am sure I read somewhere that double jeopardy does not apply in Portugal when new information comes to light?

One of the Gonc Cult has emerged to try and calm them down on MM, after someone so foolishly posted a story she didn't understand

This is the Official Team Gonc Spinny:

Re: Sought absolution for "slanderers" Gonçalo Amaral in "Joana case"
Claudia79 Today at 2:48 pm

It's not good or bad news. I wouldn't even call it news. The sentencing is yet to come. But to be honest I don't expect a conviction. Not because there isn't reason to convict (I haven't followed the case closely so I'm not aware of details) but because our courts tend to be quite liberal regarding 'libel' cases. Until 1974 censorship was common so freedom of expression is considered a very important right and convictions like these are rare. Although it can be seen as unfair in certain cases I prefer things this way then to live in a kind of society where people are afraid to voice their opinions.

Convictions are rare, are they? So, why did Gonc start the case in the first place, pray tell? And why is the PROSECUTOR speaking against him?

As for

I wouldn't even call it news.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

No, there's nothing newsworthy in Leonor Cipriano appearing as a witness to openly and publically accuse Gonc of being involved in the proven torture of herself.

No, there's nothing newsorthy in the Portuguese Ministério Público , in the person of the prosecutor, speaking AGAINST Gonc and confirming, for the third time, that torture was used.

Cat's out of the bag, dear - this one is going to be played out in public, without any 'accidents' on those dangerous police station stairs so common around Faro.

Never mind, the forkers aren't very bright, so no doubt they will be soothed by that load of rubbish. Oh, and doesn't Claudia normally phone Gonc to get her story straight? Maybe she doesn't know where he is, either?

Sauces say that, if you wander round the poorer areas of Lisbon, shouting Free beer and shrimps! Gonc soon comes out of his hidey-hole.

I must say that I haven't seen any new Evidence, which is what the Appeal Court said when reviewing Leonor Cipriano's Sentence. But since they didn't actually have any any Evidence in the first place, this might be difficult. The Fact that The Trial was a Travesty was completely ignored. They all know that Leonor had a confession beaten out of her, so the only thing they can do now is to overturn The Conviction as Unsafe.

Sorry, my fault, cross purposes, Sabot - I meant new evidence in the torture case. Cristovao and co only wriggled out of it because they had covered her head so they couldn't be identified.

If things start getting hot, one of the minor thugs may well get his memory back?

So who does Claudia think could be convicted? Marcos for stating that Amaral was involved in The Torture of Leonor Cipriano? I don't think so. Amaral was involved. He has a Criminal Conviction to prove it. But then that lot believe anything she says.

And if she thinks I believe that she doesn't know much about The Case, then I can only say, "Pull the other one, it's got bells on."

Try not to laugh, Sabot, but one of the interlectool forkers on Amazon has decided to shove his oar in, and got everything spectacularly wrong as usual:

In reply to an earlier post on 28 Jun 2012 14:55:32 BDT
watcher says:
There seems to be a great deal of confusion today about the article referred to earlier. I read it as the lawyers for the defendants - Reservoir man and his pal - asking for the charges to be dismissed, and the court preparing to come back with a decision in July.

However - the Menopause support group operating under the guise of the Purply chamber of horrors, seems to believe that 'sentencing' on July 17th is so that the court can throw Amaral in jail, charged with wasting the court's time and other imaginary slights.

I am not sure whether they understand that generally speaking if you bring a civil action and you lose, the response of the court is not to throw you in jail...........




Pity that Gonc brought a CRIMINAL case then, isn't it?

Which is why the PROSECUTOR has intervened

Which is why Gonc is liable to be charged with the Portuguese CRIMINAL offence of making false allegations yet again.

It wasn't the LAWYER for the defendants who spoke for Correia and Dores, it was the PROSECUTOR, representing the Ministério Público. We haven't heard from the defendants' lawyer yet, and personally, I am very much looking forward to hearing what she has to say about the matter.

All this is going on in CRIMINAL court - the fact that Claudia referred to people being convicted should be a Big Clue. Even for a forker.

Try thinking of it as the Portuguese authorities giving Gonc enough rope to finally hang himself and it will all make perfect sense. Even to a forker

Sabot wrote:So who does Claudia think could be convicted? Marcos for stating that Amaral was involved in The Torture of Leonor Cipriano? I don't think so. Amaral was involved. He has a Criminal Conviction to prove it. But then that lot believe anything she says.

And if she thinks I believe that she doesn't know much about The Case, then I can only say, "Pull the other one, it's got bells on."

Quite, Sabot. Picking through her spinny, she is letting them know that Marcos and the professor - and ACED - are NOT going to be convicted of that strange crime of 'calamitous denunciation', as demanded by Gonc.

He, on the other hand, may well be heading for a spell as a guest of the Portuguese state.

bb1 wrote:Sorry, my fault, cross purposes, Sabot - I meant new evidence in the torture case. Cristovao and co only wriggled out of it because they had covered her head so they couldn't be identified.

If things start getting hot, one of the minor thugs may well get his memory back?

That might be New Evidence, but it is debatable since it would only involve The Torture. Any Evidence in The Case itself has long been destroyed. The only things that might help would be for Joana to return alive, or for someone to have been with Leonor during that evening when she is supposed to have killed Joana. Her brother might have been there for some of the time, but they accused him as well. It's like trying to prove a Negative. You can't.

No one was in Appartment 5a with Kate and or Gerry between the hours of 6.30 and 10 pm. so they cannot Positively prove that they didn't kill Madeleine. This is what Amaral worked on. Hoover up and accuse anyone who might be a witness for The Defence. This could even be why they mounted accusations against David Payne because his evidence suggested that Madeleine was still alive at 6.30 pm. Really not a lot of time left to bump off a child and dispose of her body before Ten o'clock.

My point being that very few ordinary people living ordinary lives can Positively prove that they are not guilty.

bb1 wrote:

Sabot wrote:So who does Claudia think could be convicted? Marcos for stating that Amaral was involved in The Torture of Leonor Cipriano? I don't think so. Amaral was involved. He has a Criminal Conviction to prove it. But then that lot believe anything she says.

And if she thinks I believe that she doesn't know much about The Case, then I can only say, "Pull the other one, it's got bells on."

Quite, Sabot. Picking through her spinny, she is letting them know that Marcos and the professor - and ACED - are NOT going to be convicted of that strange crime of 'calamitous denunciation', as demanded by Gonc.

He, on the other hand, may well be heading for a spell as a guest of the Portuguese state.

Oh, Calamitous Denunciation. Is that the new one? The only Calamity that I can see is heading for Goncalo Amaral. Now there was a Calamity waiting to happen.
In Debt up to his eyeballs. Robbed his Brother. Threatened his Mistress. Foreclosed on by The Bank. Thrown out of The PJ. About to lose his Pension. Charged with beating another suspect. His Wife is Divorcing him, although that was probably a good move on her part. He really doesn't have much going for him at the moment.

PS. Have we heard anything from The Lovely Sofa lately?

Lovely Sofa is also AWOL, Sabot.

You know, I am stunned that the interlectool forkers didn't know that this was a CRIMINAL case. It could scarcely be clearer:



What no-one foresaw, of course, was the Ministério Público Goncalol in such fine style.

bb1 wrote:Lovely Sofa is also AWOL, Sabot.

You know, I am stunned that the interlectool forkers didn't know that this was a CRIMINAL case. It could scarcely be clearer:



What no-one foresaw, of course, was the Ministério Público Goncalol in such fine style.

What was that about Tick Tock?

Just to remind the Gonc cult that the PJ are not going to let him and his cronies off the hook over the Cipriano scandal:

http://expresso.sapo.pt/pereira-cristovao-tem-processo-disciplinar-ainda-pendente-na-pj=f719640#ixzz1sJoLr1ZK

Pereira Cristovao is still pending disciplinary proceedings in PJ
If the attacks on the mother of Joan has been resolved in court, but the PJ decided to open disciplinary proceedings against the inspectors involved, including Christopher Paul Pereira , the vice president of Sporting .


Paulo Pereira Christopher is out of the Judicial Police for five years but no one is free of disciplinary proceedings by the department of PJ. "You are accused of breach of duty and the case is still pending at the stage of the defense," said the Express a lawyer.

The vice president of Sporting and five inspectors (including Gonçalo Amaral) had already been accused by prosecutors of assaulting Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother, a child was last seen in September 2004.

Christopher Paul Pereira was acquitted at trial - just another inspector Gonçalo Amaral and António Cardoso, were convicted for providing false information - but the prosecutor of the department's disciplinary PJ believes there is sufficient evidence to charge, a process less demanding as to proof such as discipline.

The leader of Sporting, now suspected to trap the referee Joseph Cardinal left the PJ in 2007, following the hearing of the case of the missing girl, and a possible penalty of suspension will not, of course, any practical effect.

In December last year, speaking to "Daily News", Christopher Pereira proved to be disgusted with the conclusions of the attorney disciplinary process: "I am amazed at the degree of incapacity that gentleman. How can write it when Leonor Cipriano said he did not always hit her. "

The safety inspector

Christopher Pereira joined PJ in 1990 as security. Despite several good ratings, was convicted in another case displinar 800 euros disappeared because of a lot of notes that was in their custody.

Even so, the inspector took the course and gained fame as "embattled police" in the various departments through which he passed, including the fight against terrorism and corruption. He left not feel supported by the hierarchy when he was accused in the process Joanna.

However, he wrote three books, founded a security company and became a commentator on police matters on television.

The connection to Sporting at least more direct, begins shortly after, in 2009, presidential candidate of the club, which represented "a rupture with continuity", a campaign was mobilizing up to the last two weeks, at which lost gas with the 'case Eriksson'. Lost to José Eduardo Bettencourt by an overwhelming majority: 89% -11%.

Later, in 2011, when there was talk of a possible candidacy, separated from most of the closest collaborators two years before and finally join the cast led by Godinho Lopes.

In Sporting, Paulo Pereira Christopher has the portfolio of infrastructure and assets, and a close relationship with the cheerleading of Sporting.

At a congress in Barcelona with some of the biggest clubs in Europe, explained that "the things cheerleading" also could resolve "a few cervejitas going to drink with them."



Ler mais: http://expresso.sapo.pt/pereira-cristovao-tem-processo-disciplinar-ainda-pendente-na-pj=f719640#ixzz1z82iCre5

the prosecutor of the department's disciplinary PJ believes there is sufficient evidence to charge, a process less demanding as to proof such as discipline.

I suppose the PJ are IN IT now, too?

Ah, so The JP have been playing Softly, Softly, but they've been doing it with that bunch of Thugs. No wonder we all got confused. I think the tide is turning. Tick Tock. Karma's a bitch when it bites you on the bum. Justice for Madeleine and Joana.
Tick Tock. Whoops, sorry. I already said that.

My friends, here it is the proper translation:

http://expresso.sapo.pt/pereira-cristovao-tem-processo-disciplinar-ainda-pendente-na-pj=f719640#ixzz1sJoLr1ZK

Christopher Pereira is still pending disciplinary proceedings in PJ

If the attacks on the mother of Joan has been resolved in court, but the PJ decided to initiate disciplinary proceedings against the inspectors involved, including Paulo Pereira Christopher, vice president of Sporting.

Paulo Pereira Christopher is out of the Judicial Police for five years but no one is free of disciplinary proceedings by the department of PJ.

"You are accused of breach of duty and the case is still pending at the stage of the defense," said to the Express a lawyer.

The vice president of Sporting and five inspectors (including Gonçalo Amaral) had already been accused by prosecutors of assaulting Leonor Cipriano, Joana's mother, a child was last seen in September 2004.

Christopher Paul Pereira was acquitted at trial - just another inspector Gonçalo Amaral and António Cardoso, were convicted for providing false information - but the prosecutor of the department's disciplinary PJ believes there is sufficient evidence to charge, a process less demanding as to proof such as discipline.

The leader of Sporting, now suspected to trap the referee Joseph Cardinal left the PJ in 2007, following the hearing of the case of the missing girl, and a possible penalty of suspension will not, of course, any practical effect.

In December last year, speaking to "Daily News", Christopher Pereira proved to be disgusted with the conclusions of the attorney disciplinary process: "I am amazed at the degree of incapacity of that gentleman. How can write it when Leonor Cipriano said I did not always hit her.

From security to inspector:

Christopher Pereira joined PJ in 1990 as security.

Despite several good ratings, was convicted in another case displinar 800 euros disappeared because of a lot of notes that was in their custody.

Even so, the inspector took the course and gained fame as "embattled police" in the various departments through which he passed, including the fight against terrorism and corruption.

He left because not feel supported by the hierarchy when he was accused in the process Joanna.

However, he wrote three books, founded a security company and became a commentator on police matters on television.

The connection to Sporting at least more direct, begins shortly after, in 2009, presidential candidate of the club, which represented "a rupture with continuity", a campaign was mobilizing up to the last two weeks, at which lost gas with the 'case Eriksson'.

Lost to José Eduardo Bettencourt by an overwhelming majority: 89% -11%.

Later, in 2011, when there was talk of a possible candidacy, separated from most of the closest collaborators two years before and finally join the cast led by Godinho Lopes.

In Sporting, Paulo Pereira Christopher has the portfolio of infrastructure and assets, and a close relationship with the cheerleading of Sporting.

At a congress in Barcelona with some of the biggest clubs in Europe, explained that "the things about cheerleading" also could have been resolved with"a few beers with them."

Thanks, Pedro.

It would seem that any ruling made by The PJ Disciplinary Board won't actually result in a Criminal Conviction, but it will open the way for Leonor Cipriano to sue them all. Now that is what I call Justice. And I hope she sues The Portuguese State as well. In fact, I hope she finishes up rolling in their dirty money. Not much consolation for ruining her life and her family, but better than another kick in the teeth.