10 KILLED IN PARIS-shot dead UPDATE Fri morning more DEAD in shootout

I stand to be corrected, LL, but I seem to recall that Algerians had virtually automatic entry to France?

bb1 wrote:I stand to be  corrected, LL, but I seem to recall that Algerians had virtually automatic entry to France?

Algerians do have automatic entry as they are ex-colonial subjects, the same as Commonwealth members have priority over non-members re UK entry. The moment I saw those pics I knew they were Algerian. LL

An interesting piece:

http://annaraccoon.com/2015/01/08/that-joke-isnt-funny-anymore/

But I would take issue with this-

One of the problems surrounding terrorism is that it works. It is highly effective. I can’t remember the exact provenance of the quote, but “kill one, frighten a thousand/million” comes to mind.

I would suggest that in this case, it HASN'T worked. The killers have just killed people, they haven't terrorised anyone. They have, indeed, succeeded in finally making people angry.

The killers may have thought that Parisiennes would be cowering in their homes in terror, waiting for the Government to tell them what to do, as happened in Boston, but the very opposite has happened.

French people have poured onto the streets and said a giant to them. And those cartoons are now all over the place for anyone to see.

Terrorism does not work, the Nazis tried that and, although it worked for as time, in the end it failed. I think this was revenge against people considered as blasphemous infidels. The magazine had been targeted before. The problem is that to muslims any representation of the Prophet (PBH) and religious leaders is strictly forbidden - in the same way that there are no pictures or statues of Jehovah in Jewish homes. By the way, it is being reported that the killers may well be on their way back to Paris to attempt another attack and to die themselved in a hail of bullets. Not verified yet. LL

I don't want to cause offence, but IMO, one of the causes of our current situation is that terrorism DID work in America. 9/11 worked beyond Bin Laden's wildest dreams. Americans have handed over their liberties wholesale to be 'protected', got involved in unwinnable wars that have caused hundreds of thousands of muslim deaths, and created more terrorists than ever. Oh, and wrecked their own economy, and got thousands of their best young people killed, and maimed in body and mind, along the way.

Americans were scared at the time of the Boston Bombings. The French, and Europeans, are NOT scared today, they are p*ssed off and angry. I hate to say it, but I have a bad, bad feeling Europe is now going to see an awful lot of tit-for-tat violence.

In the USA, yes, ramped up by outrage that anyone, especially a non-Christian furriner, dared to desecrate their sacred soil. After all, the last time anyone invaded America was centuries ago and that was the British! Pity the USA has now dragged other countries into this mess. LL

That is a very powerful image. I suspect yesterday's attack is going to have equally far-reaching consequences, but not in the same way.

They haven't scared people this time; instead, people are p*ssed off and angry. A situation which is not being helped by idiots claiming criticising Islam is 'racist'.

Very powerful image indeed.

The article below doesn't sound too promising?

http://drudgegae.iavian.net/v2/r?hop=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/7/french-islamist-mini-states-grow-into-problem-out-/&s=2

It's happening all over Europe, Lily, Sweden is rapidly turning from a model Scandinavian state into a shambles, with cars going up in flames in Muslim enclaves, a rape epidemic in Stockholm, and mosques being burned down by outraged Swedes.

This is exactly right:

Said Mr. Kern, "Europe is very committed to multiculturalism. So any speech critical of Islam is immediately branded as being Islamophobic or racist or something like that. There's not really an honest debate about what's going on in Europe because the European elite have so much invested in this multicultural society that they're trying to build."

There is a problem, but Europe is trying to sweep it under the carpet. Which of course, means the extremists on both sides are taking charge.

I freely admit I don't know what the answer is, especially as so much of Islam directly opposes European values and belief systems that have been around since the Enlightenment.

Not happening here, bonny, or in Austria, but then both countries were ruled for about 150 years by the Ottomans.   We have villiages here where the inhabitants are direct descendents of the Ottoman soldiers who chose to stay when the conquerors were sent packing.   We have many buildings etc that are Ottoman in style, one of which is the Catholic church in Pécs which still looks like a mosque and has many of the original features from then mixed in with the Christian ones.
 
There are minarets in towns like Eger, which also has a Turkish bath built 400 years ago.   Budapest has wonderful Turkish baths; it was the Ottomans who introduced the thermal bath etc to Hungary.    We have memorials showing both Hungarians and Ottomans - Szigetvar was the site of a big battle.
 
And this is in Budapest, the tomb of Gul Pasha, who introduced roses to Hungary.


Austrian laws do not allow religious discrimination in any way, shape and form, and an attempt by our PM to discriminate against Muslims was kicked out of court.   Wgat I am trying to say is that maybe that earlier contact with Islam helps non-muslims to understand the religion.    LL

If that isn't bad enough, there is a separate legal system too. Don't know how that can work in the longterm.......

It simply cannot work long-term, Lily. And it's all very well to say that most Muslims want to live peacefully - the problem is that a significant minority DON'T, and want to impose their backward, woman-hating beliefs on the rest of us.

Like the clown that was mouthing off on Sky today and calling people 'racists' if they don't support Islam. It isn't a frigging race, it's just another sky pixie cult - and a particularly unpleasant one at that.

Just google Sweden + Muslims and you can read for yourselves what a third-world mess that once-admired nation is being reduced to courtesy of bien pensant progressives that get all upset if anyone dare criticise the religion of peace.

I don't know what the answer is, but I have little doubt that real, bad trouble is coming in many European cities.

Maybe Austria is safe thanks to folk memories of Islamic expansion coming unstuck at the gates of Vienna, LL?

Maybe Austria is safe thanks to folk memories of Islamic expansion coming unstuck at the gates of Vienna, LL?

Maybe, but I think it is more likely that Austrians don't look backwards, only forwards.  They had some rough run-ins over hundreds of years, but they don't seem to have this grudge-holding gene that many other European countries do.   I don't really have the answer, but I know my Austrian relatives have a far more relaxed outlook on life, a trait I do seem to have inherited.  LL

Frankly, it seems to be going to hell in a hand basket at the moment.

Okay, when people go to live in other countries, they don't demand that the new country bend to their wishes do they? They try to get along and get involved with their new country's customs etc. That's the way to do it if you want harmony. Is there no will on their part to integrate?

Living in the M.E. was pretty easy as far as I was concerned. I knew the rules and abided by them. It was not difficult at all. So many of the locals were lovely and were very tolerant because, I think, if you show them respect you can receive in kind.

Is it also a partial problem with education?

I really don't think it is anything to do with that, LL. It is the countries that have famously in the past been the MOST tolerant that now have this problem.

Why the HELL should I have little choice but to eat Halal meat? I totally disapprove of the barbaric practise, but because Muslims in the UK have made such a fuss about it, just about every bit of meat or poultry on sale in supermarkets is Halal.

I don't eat red meat, thankfully, but why on earth should a vocal, aggressive minority religious cult dictate to the majority like this? Why should UK muslims expect Sharia law to be enforced in certain circumstances, instead of UK law?

Just look at the various child abuse scandals in big cities, particularly in England - the ones that got pushed off the front pages by gossip about celebrities. Young girls were being abused in the most foul ways, their families threatened, they themselves tortured and beaten into prostitution.

AND IT WAS IGNORED BECAUSE THE PERPETRATORS WERE MUSLIM. Yet again, do-gooders didn't want to offend the supposed religion of peace and nothing was done for years.

I don't care what religion people follow, whether they're fire-worshippers, Buddhists, or nothing at all. What I DO object to is people shoving their particular cult down my throat.

Living in the M.E. was pretty easy as far as I was concerned. I knew the rules and abided by them. It was not difficult at all.

Exactly, Lily.

I think the do gooders have created quite a mess to be honest.

http://news.sky.com/story/1404121/live-updates-manhunt-for-attack-suspects


roddymansfield 3 hours ago
It has just been disclosed by the White House that the US Attorney General Eric Holder will attend terror talks in Paris on Sunday.

And WTF has it to do with him, of all people? Obama sending him to make sure no-one says anything racist?

I thought that slitting animal's throats without stunning them first was deemed to be cruelty. Or have things moved on?

The Conservative MP Philip Davies, who is leading calls for a new labelling law, said: ‘There is overwhelming public support for this change. People should be able to make an informed choice about what they are buying.’
Fast food giant Subway has removed ham and bacon from almost 200 outlets, and switched to halal meat alternatives in an attempt to please its Muslim customers.
It has confirmed turkey ham and turkey rashers will be used instead in 185 of its stores, where all the meat will now be prepared according to halal rules.
The chain, which has around 1,500 outlets across the UK, explained its decision by saying it had to balance animal welfare concerns with 'the views of religious communities'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626032/Asda-Sainsburys-Tesco-sell-halal-meat-live-kill-animals-not-stunned.html#ixzz3OGikPA96
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That is a perfect example of why so many people are so totally pissed off. Because as far as most people are concerned, decades of progress in animal welfare is being thrown aside to cater to a minority cult.

Sabot wrote:I thought that slitting animal's throats without stunning them first was deemed to be cruelty.  Or have things moved on?

It depends, ma petite.  Both the Jewish and Muslem religions require that the throat be slit and the blood drained.   The differences between the methods in these two religions is that the Jews pray to Jehovah at the start and finish of a slaughter session while Islam requires the name of Allah being said for each animal as they are killed. LL

Poor animals is all I can say.

Halal meat is being sold in UK supermarkets and food outlets without the people buying it being aware of it, Lily. To keep the muslim minority quiet - which is a perfect example of why so many people are so fed up of it. And 'Islam' is NOT a race, any more than 'Protestant' is, though you wouldn't think it from the howls any criticism causes.

Well, I have to say that they kill their own Pigs around here, but they do hit them over the head first. And then everyone who is buying a part of said Pig has a party while the butcher cuts it up and makes the sausages.