War in Ukraine

This is why Europeans are so angry - as well as scared stiff of the sabre-rattlers in Washington. I doubt if it will be reported in the US media.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/09/396845/Spain-farmers-strike-over-Russia-bans

Nearly 200 farmers have gone on strike in Spain and abandoned their products in the middle of a road in Catalonia to protest against Western-imposed sanctions against Russia.

The strike on Sunday in Alcanar was organized by the Unió de Pagesos (UP) and a number of other farmer groups and unions.

The farmers dumped their citrus fruits on the road to express their anger at the European Union for its ban on fruit exports to Russia.

They say the ban on agricultural products has left the farmers with a surplus of stocks.

The protesters also complained that the Spanish government has so far failed to provide them with sufficient compensation for the oranges and lemons they have not been able to sell.

They warned the Spanish government that they would hold more protests if they did not receive a positive response.

Meanwhile, Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said that the EU has lost 21 billion euros as a result of the sanctions against Moscow.

Following sanctions imposed on Russia by Western powers over Moscow’s alleged role in the crisis in Ukraine, Russia imposed a full year-long ban of European Union, US, Australian, Canadian, and Norwegian food exports to the country.

Prior to the ban, Moscow annually purchased over two billion Euros ($2.7 billion) worth of fruits and vegetables from the EU.

Massive sigh.......

It's horrendous, Lily. I did see one US commentator point out that up to about 2009, the world was more-or-less at peace.

The Middle East was as stable as it ever is. Now it's gone up in flames, with the most appalling slaughter.

US-Russia relations were at least civil. EU-Russia relations were excellent, with much very lucrative trade. Russia was also a very valuable ally in fighting terror, not least by allowing US troops access to Afghanistan via its territory and the -stans. Russia's er, robust, approach to terrorism is also legendary.

Now look at the mess EVERYTHING is in! Europe is being tipped into bankruptcy by US-imposed sanctions, small nations are scared of Washington's fondness for regime-changing them - Cyprus is apparently letting Russia have a military base on the island. And everyone in Europe is scared of lunatics like McCain and Biden, who seem hell-bent on starting an all-out war in Europe.

And what happened in 2009 to set this chaos and destruction in motion? Oh yes, Obama took office. I really do not see ANY other US president in modern times creating a complete clusterf*ck like this.

This is before we even start on the spying, cultural Marxism and semi-socialism he's inflicted on US citizens.

At least he's made one Soros a happy man.

It's also worth remembering how much personal offence Obama caused to Europeans with his gum-chewing at the D-Day ceremonies, and other incidents like that.

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#Merkel arrives in #Washington for #Obama talks http://dw.de/p/1EY6Y
2:26 PM - 9 Feb 2015

Nice friendly atmosphere there; and Obama's pulling That Face again.

Does Obama ever stop lying? I can't believe the sh*te he's coming out with.

I think a better question might be, when does he tell the truth?

As you know, I keep away from this subject, but I will say that if anyone can sort out the mess, it is Merkel, who speaks German, English and fluent Russian (she was born and grew up in the DDR) and Putin who speaks Russian and fluent German having been a KGB agent in the DDR.   I assume Obama only speaks American, Hollande probably speaks some English and German.    We can but hope.   LL

LL, if you'd heard Obama tonight, you wouldn't even think he can speak American...I agree, Ms Merkel is best placed to sort it out. Her instincts are correct, IMO, as is her firm preference for diplomacy and talking, however long it takes, instead of shooting first. She also has a bit of much-needed gravitas.

As far as I'm concerned we have a bunch of idiots trying to enter the fray, and I don't mean from Europe.

I've seen some woeful displays from Obama, Lily, but that was one of the worst. He was outright lying, and from the look on her face, Merkel knew he was. He actually begged Germany to trust the US, despite that nasty business when the NSA were bugging her phones....

And it was Ms Merkel who was asked all the big, important questions by the media.

Do you remember Willi Brandt, Chancellor of Germany from 1969 to 1974? Angela Merkel reminds me very much of him. LL

Ah yes! She's certainly head and shoulders above most of her current male counterparts.

Thank goodness there is someone with a head firmly on their shoulders here. I dread to think what might happen.

bb1 wrote:Ah yes! She's certainly head and shoulders above most of her current male counterparts.

She's a real German hausfrau and just like a New York Jewish momma. She has the brains, the men have the brawn. LL

Obama needs to know that Merkel won't go weak on Ukraine

Differences of opinion about how to tackle Vladimir Putin's advances in Ukraine have strained relations between the US and Germany and France, with US hawks hovering

Barack Obama and Angela Merkel hold a joint news conference in the East Room of the White House


Mr Obama during his press conference with Mrs Merkel Photo: Kevin Lamarque/Reuters
By Peter Foster, Washington7:16PM GMT 09 Feb 2015

Barack Obama and Angela Merkel have had their differences over the years – from eavesdropping the German Chancellor’s phone calls to her insistence on European budgetary austerity – but none appeared more fundamental than the division that preceded yesterday’s crunch summit over Ukraine.

Although Mr Obama won’t be bandying around the “appeasement” word, as the hawkish senator John McCain did at last weekend’s Munich Security Conference, he will have demanded assurances that Germany and France are not about to cut a weak and misguided deal with Vladimir Putin.

For all the formulaic professions of unity at yesterday’s press conference in Washington, the Obama administration was rattled by the decision of Mrs Merkel and François Hollande to go racing off to Moscow last week on a mission that looked dangerously like rewarding bad behaviour.

For the last few weeks the Kremlin has continued to pour men and materiel into eastern Ukraine, while Mr Putin sets conditions for talks that sceptics fear will buy him time to continue re-drawing Europe’s borders “at the barrel of a gun”, as Mr Obama put it.
So if the Minsk talks go ahead on Wednesday, senior US officials have indicated that Mr Obama will want Germany and France to be clear about whether Mr Putin is serious in pursuing a negotiated settlement, or if he is merely playing for time.

It was the EU that provoked the Ukrainian shambles, not Vladimir Putin 20 Dec 2014
For those present at Munich the divisions between the Americans and the Germans and French were stark, with both sides appearing “tired and frustrated, and no agreement on tactics going forward”, according to Ian Bremmer, of the Eurasia Group.

At the heart of that disagreement – exposed by more hawkish voices in the US administration who want to send defensive weapons to Ukraine – is whether at this juncture it is worth negotiating with Mr Putin at all.

The risk, as Mr Obama implied in his press conference with Mrs Merkel, is that Mr Putin will talk – he might even sign a deal – but will soon break any commitments as he prosecutes his ultimate ambition, which is to hive off a significant portion of Ukraine and open a land bridge to Crimea.



Vladimir Putin (AFP)

Instead, the US favours tougher economic sanctions to tighten the ratchet on Mr Putin and bring him to the negotiating table to cut a deal that would be acceptable to both sides.

When it comes to military intervention Mr Obama has always been cautious, but as conditions worsen on the ground he is under mounting pressure to authorise defensive weapon shipments to the Ukraine, including Javelin anti-tank missiles and high-tech radars.

This pressure comes not just from Congressional hawks such as Mr McCain, but also from Joe Biden, his vice-president, who is understood to be clearly behind providing weapons and, more guardedly, from John Kerry, the secretary of state.

Mr Obama has resisted has resisted such calls before, most notably when it came to arming Syrian rebels, but such are the stakes in Ukraine, there are those who believe that this most reluctant of interventionists may be forced to concede, at least partially, to the hawks.



A Pro-Russian separatist missile launcher vehicle rides in Uglegorsk, Ukraine (Reuters)
That might mean sending not anti-tank weapons, but some less “offensive” weapons, such as Humvees and medical transport vehicles, the lack of which rae preventing Ukrainian casualties from receiving timely medical attention.
In the end, that could ultimately play into the hands of Angela Merkel who, if weapons are to be provided, is determined that she will have demonstrated to her own gun-shy public that she did everything possible to engage Mr Putin before conceding the necessity of providing military assistance to Kiev.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11401704/Obama-needs-to-know-that-Merkel-wont-go-weak-on-Ukraine.html

Sigh......Come on. Biden & Co need their perks of the job.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-would-see-us-moves-to-arm-ukraine-as-declaration-of-war/515654.html

Another sigh.....

Russia Would See U.S. Moves to Arm Ukraine as Declaration of War
By Matthew BodnerFeb. 09 2015 21:37 Last edited 21:37


U.S. provision of military aid to Ukraine would be seen by Moscow as a declaration of war and spark a global escalation of Ukraine's separatist conflict, Russian defense analysts said.

With Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine seizing new territory from the Ukrainian army, voices in Washington are demanding that Kiev be given defensive weapons and hardware — including lethal equipment — to hold the line.

But if such aid were sent, "Russia would reasonably consider the U.S. to be a direct participant in the conflict," said Evgeny Buzhinsky, a military expert at the Moscow-based PIR Center.

Speaking to The Moscow Times on a condition of anonymity, a member of the Russian Defense Ministry's public advisory board warned that Moscow would not only up the ante in eastern Ukraine, "but also respond asymmetrically against Washington or its allies on other fronts."

Crossroads
Ukraine is at a crossroads. With rebel forces reportedly massing for a renewed assault on the strategically valuable railroad hub of Debaltseve and the port city of Mariupol, the West is racing to find the best means to bring a swift end to the conflict.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande traveled to Moscow last week to attempt to hash out a peace proposal with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The proposal is set to be discussed with all parties in the Belarussian capital of Minsk on Wednesday, but some consider peace talks hopeless, and advocate military measures.

The U.S.-led NATO military alliance says Moscow has sent troops and arms to aid pro-Russian rebels fighting in eastern Ukraine — which Russia denies. Calls to arm Ukraine are seen as a way to even the odds for the Ukrainian army, enabling Kiev to halt rebel advances and force them — and the Kremlin — to negotiate.

U.S. think tank the Atlantic Council called last month for Washington to give $3 billion in lethal and non-lethal military aid to Ukraine over the next three years.

But Russian defense analysts polled by The Moscow Times said unanimously that U.S. arms transfers to Ukraine would be interpreted in Moscow as a declaration of open proxy war with Russia and inevitably lead to escalation of the conflict.

"It would become tit-for-tat," said Maxim Shepovalenko, an analyst at the Moscow-based Center for the Analysis of Strategy and Technology (CAST).

"Moscow will not just sit by calmly and see what happens, it will counteract," he said.

Asymmetric Response
The Russian counterstrike could take the conflict far beyond Ukraine, according to the source on the Defense Ministry's public advisory board.

Pointing to one possible avenue of asymmetrical retaliation, the source said Moscow could give in to long-standing Chinese requests for sensitive defense technologies that would aid in its development of high-tech weapons capable of doing serious damage to U.S. naval forces in the Asia-Pacific.

Moscow has so far declined China's requests on "politically correct pretenses," the source said.

"That's just one example. We can also encourage Iran, or even back Iran in a fight — a military operation — with Saudi Arabia, so then the prices for oil will skyrocket," the source said, explaining that these were just two possible responses.

Who Are We Giving This to?
The U.S. has already given a modest amount of non-lethal military aid to Ukraine, such as the delivery of three counter-battery radar systems to help identify the point of origin of pro-Russian rebel artillery fire.

The CAST think tank wrote on its Russian-language blog last week that two of the three radars had already been destroyed, citing the outfit's sources on the ground in eastern Ukraine.

Only one of the units was reportedly destroyed by rebel fire. The other was reportedly dropped by Ukrainian soldiers — underscoring the difficulty of providing aid and ensuring it gets put to good use.

"You might give aid to the regular armed forces, not the volunteer battalions, but you still need trained operators. Training takes time, additional money, and more than anything else — it takes practical experience," said Shepovalenko.

U.S. deployment of trainers to Ukraine would mean sending U.S. military personnel into Ukraine — which could easily be construed by Moscow as U.S. involvement in the war.

Beyond training, there is no guarantee that weapons and hardware will not fall into enemy hands or wet the beaks of corrupt Ukrainian army personnel.

Corruption in the ranks cannot be discounted, according to the PIR Center's Buzhinsky: "It is absolutely certain that at least fifty percent of what is delivered will be stolen and then sold on the side," he said.

Although Mr Obama won’t be bandying around the “appeasement” word, as the hawkish senator John McCain did at last weekend’s Munich Security Conference, he will have demanded assurances that Germany and France are not about to cut a weak and misguided deal with Vladimir Putin.


Do McCain and co not grasp that they have scared the living daylights out of a great many Europeans? Does it not sink in that they simply cannot act in this Imperial manner, and threaten to start a war in Europe?

A thought occurred to me, Lily. If Biden and co are so keen for a war with Russia - why don't they start one themselves? Why not open fire from Alaska? Why not have a war on US soil for once, instead of spilling European blood?

Europe's seen more than enough war - real war - thank you very much. They want a war - off they can go and have one of their very own, in Alaska.

I genuinely do not know why the US imagines it's ever going to get Crimea. IMO, this goes back to that 2013 Yalta conference, with both Clintons and assorted other international lowlifes, shysters and sex offenders. That's when they started having fantasies about mooring the 7th Fleet in Sevastopol harbour. The rest is just window dressing - apart from the looting of Ukrainian assets, of course.

Would the US ever hand, say, Galveston over to China? No, of course not.

What would the US be doing if China had stirred up a sh*tstorm like this on the Mexican border - besides openly invading Mexico?

The US cannot force the Donbass and Crimea to be part of Ukraine if the people don't want to be. Washington would, IMO, be well advised to accept that, and go along with this federation/buffer zone plan. Which would probably have been implemented a year ago if matters had been left to the people it actually concerns. Which is the Ukraine, the EU, and Russia.

Instead, they staged the Cookie Coup. And installed Vice President Biden's cokehead son in a cushy job in Ukrainian energy.

U.S. deployment of trainers to Ukraine would mean sending U.S. military personnel into Ukraine — which could easily be construed by Moscow as U.S. involvement in the war.

Excuse me, but doesn't the writer know that Moscow already HAS proof of US involvement? Get outta my face ringing any bells?

Corruption in the ranks cannot be discounted, according to the PIR Center's Buzhinsky: "It is absolutely certain that at least fifty percent of what is delivered will be stolen and then sold on the side," he said.

Only 50%?

Bonny, I think they would be scared sh*tless if they got into it via Alaska. What would they do?

Run away screaming, while the good people of America siezed the chance to lynch the crooks in Washington that got them into this mess?

Oh my!!