Re: POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK

**bb1** Sun May 24, 2015 8:34 pm

Lamplighter wrote:
Sabot wrote:It doesn't even matter. He is lying shit bag. And if that is what Orkney and The Shetlands want, then more bloody fools them.
The Orcadians and Shetlanders voted for someone they did not know was such an idiot, he was the sitting MP. How were they to know what he was about to do? Orcadians are not mind-readers; it is up to the LibDem party to sort this out, there is very little the Islanders can do if the party does not dismiss him and a by- election is held to replace him; it is the party who chooses the candidates, not the voters, they only endorse the chosen candidate or refuse him at an election. And Orcadians are not 'bloody fools'. Lamplighter

No, I don't think there was anything to suggest Carmichael could be up to his neck in such a grubby scheme even six months ago, was there, LL? Scots LibDems were regarded as fairly ineffectual, but pleasant enough, and not downright rotten. This came out of nowhere.

**Lamplighter** Sun May 24, 2015 8:50 pm

No, I don't think there was anything to suggest Carmichael could be up to his neck in such a grubby scheme even six months ago, was there, LL? Scots LibDems were regarded as fairly ineffectual, but pleasant enough, and not downright rotten. This came out of nowhere.

I think this was a panic reaction as the SNP were obviously on a roll. The Islanders obviously prefer the Lib/LibDems, they don't like the SLabs or the Tories - also they voted No in the referendum re independence. Who knows how the political mind works, I certainly don't. LL

**bb1** Sun May 24, 2015 8:53 pm

And if he does go, the poor sods are facing yet ANOTHER election between now and next May - one that would turn into a media circus at that.

I don't think Carmichael is the only one in hot water over this - no way did he dream it up by himself. So if he is going to be forced to fall on his sword, he really should name names....

**Sabot** Sun May 24, 2015 8:58 pm

Lamplighter wrote:
Sabot wrote:It doesn't even matter. He is lying shit bag. And if that is what Orkney and The Shetlands want, then more bloody fools them.
The Orcadians and Shetlanders voted for someone they did not know was such an idiot, he was the sitting MP. How were they to know what he was about to do? Orcadians are not mind-readers; it is up to the LibDem party to sort this out, there is very little the Islanders can do if the party does not dismiss him and a by- election is held to replace him; it is the party who chooses the candidates, not the voters, they only endorse the chosen candidate or refuse him at an election. And Orcadians are not 'bloody fools'. Lamplighter

LL, I am so sorry for you. This is all too ridiculous for words. And such a silly thing that gained nothing for anyone. Least of all him.

**Lamplighter** Sun May 24, 2015 9:02 pm

bb1 wrote:And if he does go, the poor sods are facing yet ANOTHER election between now and next May - one that would turn into a media circus at that.

I don't think Carmichael is the only one in hot water over this - no way did he dream it up by himself. So if he is going to be forced to fall on his sword, he really should name names....

The problem is often with the 'advisors' not the actual MP. At such a time, specially like the latest election, people lose the plot. They do things they probably wouldn't do at less stressful times. LL

**Sabot** Sun May 24, 2015 9:21 pm

Lamplighter wrote:
bb1 wrote:And if he does go, the poor sods are facing yet ANOTHER election between now and next May - one that would turn into a media circus at that.

I don't think Carmichael is the only one in hot water over this - no way did he dream it up by himself. So if he is going to be forced to fall on his sword, he really should name names....
The problem is often with the 'advisors' not the actual MP. At such a time, specially like the latest election, people lose the plot. They do things they probably wouldn't do at less stressful times. LL

LL, you have just horrified me. Lying is lying. His advisors didn't force him to lie.

But it is probably best that I stay out of this from now on. I was never the World's best at anything, and probably told a few fibs in my time.

**bb1** Sun May 24, 2015 10:06 pm

**lily** Sun May 24, 2015 10:09 pm

Great slogan. Pcorneater

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 10:38 am

http://www.thenational.scot/news/majority-of-under-60s-now-back-independence.3333

Majority of under-60s now back independence
MAY 25TH, 2015 - 12:40 AM ANDREW LEARMONTH NO COMMENTS
INDEPENDENCE is now supported by the majority of under 60s, according to a new poll.

The Yougov poll, conducted for the Sunday Post, found that 59 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds, and 53 per cent of of 25- to 59-year-olds supported Scottish independence.

However, support for independence remains low amongst the over-60s, with only 32 per cent in favour.

Overall, the Yougov poll of 1,000 people, carried out last week, found support for independence now at 47 per cent.

Polling expert John Curtice, believes that there’s still a lot of ground to be made up.

The Strathclyde University professor said: “The nationalist movement probably needs to have 60 per cent support in the polls before it could be sure of winning.”

Yougov also asked their respondents if the SNP promising an independence referendum in the party’s 2016 Scottish Parliament manifesto would make them more or less likely to back the party. 15 per cent said they would not vote SNP, compared to 11 per cent who said they would.

Curtice warned that not offering a referendum could be risky for the SNP. “The support and enthusiasm the SNP now enjoy might dissipate if an independence vote is taken off the table” he said.

The poll also asked Scots how they would vote in an EU referendum, 68 per cent said they would vote to remain in the EU. A UK-wide poll for the Sunday Times had 44 per cent of respondents wishing to remain in the EU, with 36 per cent voting to leave.

Stephen Gethins MP, the SNP’s Group Spokesperson and Shadow Minister for Europe, welcomed the result: “These figures underline the importance of the ‘double majority’ democratic safeguard for Scotland that Nicola Sturgeon has proposed – that for the UK to be able to leave the European Union, each constituent part – England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – would have to vote to exit. Otherwise, Scotland could be dragged out against our will.

“The group of 56 SNP MPs will move an amendment to the EU Referendum Bill on this basis, and seek support across political parties and across the UK.

“In terms of another independence referendum, the people of Scotland are in charge – they would have to vote for a party manifesto in a Scottish Parliament election seeking a mandate for a second referendum before one could take place.”

Give every over-60 a laptop or tablet, with lessons on using Google, and they will change their minds PDQ when they see how we've been ripped off and generally abused for, well, centuries.

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 2:01 pm

This may interest you, LL:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/twisting-in-the-wind/#comments

Carmichael squirming and prevaricating on Radio Orkney.

I have to say, the BBC interviewer is an absolute joy - not only not letting Carmichael away with it, but also speaking normally, and NOT in 'English' English. It's a pleasure to hear.

**Lamplighter** Mon May 25, 2015 2:28 pm

bb1 wrote:This may interest you, LL:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/twisting-in-the-wind/#comments

Carmichael squirming and prevaricating on Radio Orkney.

I have to say, the BBC interviewer is an absolute joy - not only not letting Carmichael away with it, but also speaking normally, and NOT in 'English' English. It's a pleasure to hear.

Thanks, bonny. LL hug

**Lamplighter** Mon May 25, 2015 3:45 pm

Crowd funding appeal to seek MP’s removal from office

Monday, May 25, 2015, at 2:24pm

Following this morning’s news that Orkney and Shetland MP Alistair Carmichael will not be standing down from his position in UK parliament, Yes Orkney are to launch a crowd funding campaign seeking Mr Carmichael’s removal from office.

Announced through the group’s facebook page, the crowd funding appeal’s goal will be to raise the £6000 needed to lodge a petition with the Court of Session.

If the money is raised Yes Orkney will lodge the petition on Wednesday.

http://www.orcadian.co.uk/

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 3:58 pm

Thanks, LL, that's interesting.

I genuinely do not know what the local - or national - LibDems are going to do.

If they give in to public pressure, and tell Carmichael to fall on his sword, then I doubt very much if they will hold onto that seat after this. The earlier this month:

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 Shetre10

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 Shetre10

And I doubt very much if the voters are in much of a mood for yet another election - especially one that would turn into a circus. Though I suppose it would be good for anyone in the accommodation business....

If, on the other hand, Carmichael tries to tough it out - there's a Holyrood election next May. I don't much fancy their current LibDem MSPs, Liam McArthur and Tavish Scott, having much chance of hanging onto their seats.

It's a lose-lose, IMO.

**Lamplighter** Mon May 25, 2015 4:01 pm

I'm not speculating on how things progress, I know what I would like to happen but as I have no say in these matters I am just going to stand back and observe. LL

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 4:20 pm

Best way, LL.

Alex Salmond has come right out and said Mundell, our token Tory, and high-ups in the Tory party were involved in the scheme, too, which I pretty much agree with - I just don't see Carmichael coming up with this on his own.

Maybe he thought the polls were right, and there would be another coalition? And he'd get his cushy job back as a reward? I don't know, I am just guessing at the machinations.

But it all does reek to me of Tory scheming, especially when you step back and look at who was damaged the most. Which was Ed Milliband in England, where people are unaware of the backstab

and plotting north of the border, and fell for all the JOCKOPALYSE nonsense. The Tories would simply regard the wreckage to the LibDems are collateral damage....

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 10:33 pm

**lily** Mon May 25, 2015 10:36 pm

We've seen that neck before, Bonny. Gordon Brown being one.....

**bb1** Mon May 25, 2015 11:18 pm

I forget where I read it, Lily, but I saw someone likening this to the Profumo affair - only without the sex (one hopes).

It's often forgotten that what Profumo down wasn't the wild parties, or Christine Keeler, etc., it was the fact that he stood up in Parliament and quite blatantly lied. Which is just what Carmichael did, on TV, in the run up to the election,

**lily** Mon May 25, 2015 11:42 pm

That's right, he did. I wonder when the bets will be taking place as to his er.....exit.

**bb1** Tue May 26, 2015 12:43 pm

Prominent LibDem Sir Malcolm Bruce explains why it is perfectly OK and acceptable for politicians to tell blatant lies:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-house-of-liars/

So, still no sign of ANY of them grasping why they've suffered a near-extinction event in Scotland.

**bb1** Tue May 26, 2015 12:51 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/26/malcolm-bruce-alistair-carmichael_n_7440076.html?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

Sir Malcolm Bruce, Ex Deputy Lib Dem Leader, Admits Lying Politicians Are 'Widespread' In Defence Of Alistair Carmichael Leak

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 375574_400149680093709_390874873_n

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 375574_400149680093709_390874873_n

**bb1** Tue May 26, 2015 9:02 pm

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

£19,697 GBPGBP
raised by 1,228 people in 22 hours
33%29 days left
£60,000 GBP goal
Flexible Funding

I understand that £6,000 is sufficient to start some kind of case against him, but not being hounders, the people running the campaign are well aware of the possible cost of further legal action.

**bb1** Tue May 26, 2015 9:03 pm

The purpose of this crowd fund is to raise cash for legal representation to hold Alistair Carmichael accountable for his behaviour before, during and after the election campaign.

If successful we will raise an election petition in the Courts. This could begin a process which could have the recent result in Orkney and Shetland overturned.

A significant amount of money needs to be raised quickly to make the action possible, but, as with all legal cases, there is no guarantee of winning. It could be closed at any point for any number of currently unforeseen reasons. We therefore commit to establishing a comprehensive program for distribution of any unused funds to Scottish foodbank charities.

The petition has to be lodged within 21 days of the General Election, meaning by this Friday (the 29th of May). That process will cost in the region of £5,000 for each party. That only gets the process started.

The case is extremely unusual and we may find ourselves facing three teams of barristers. Our lawyers have said, that if costs are found against us or we have to share them, we could be liable for something like £40-50,000. Indiegogo also takes a cut of any funds received - hence the figure of needing to raise something like £60,000.

**lily** Tue May 26, 2015 9:07 pm

Oh my - it goes to show how angry people are.

**bb1** Tue May 26, 2015 9:13 pm

They're absolutely furious, Lily, and that interview Malcolm Bruce gave this morning has made things ten times worse, because it has now been picked up south of the border.

And from the online comments, people in England who hadn't been paying much attention to this are now following the story and are every bit as angry.

Round-up of today's press reaction here:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/pouring-oil-on-troubled-waters/

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 Brucesun

POLLING DAY AS IT HAPPENS: TELEGRAPH TV LINK - Page 14 Brucesun

Oil on troubled waters? More like petrol on a bonfire.

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