Re: Hungary is new hot spot on migrant route into EU - Part 2

**lily** Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:53 pm

It's like entering the Twilight Zone....

**bb1** Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:03 pm

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Germany has seen an unprecedented influx of asylum-seekers, many from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3761233/Anti-Islam-activists-stage-protest-atop-Berlin-monument.html#ixzz4Ia3MPeZ2
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The imagery of that one is a disaster for Merkel; not even the German media can sweep it under the carpet.

**bb1** Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:26 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704596/Nicholas-Sarkozy-Calais-migrants-Jungle-centre-Britain

Mr Sarkozy told a political rally in northern France: "I'm demanding the opening of a centre in Britain to deal with asylum seekers in Britain so that Britain can do the work that concerns them.

"The jungle should not be in Calais or anywhere else, because this is a republic and those with no rights to be here should return to their country.”

Yup. So why did you let them into France in the first place? They're your problem, you keep them. Pcorneater

**lily** Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:44 pm

It's all well and good to whine about it now......they are supposed to be sent back not forward. Pcorneater

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:17 am

Re the earlier post showing rabble on top of the Quadriga in Berlin, this is not a German movement, it is pan-Europe and is very far right, including neo-nazis, who as we all know are anti anyone who is not white, is Roma, Jewish, Muslim and so on.

The main Identitarian youth movement is Generation Identitaire in France, a youth wing of the Bloc Identitaire party.

In 2013 Markus Willinger, born in 1992, who grew up in Schärding, Austria and now is a student of history and political science at the University of Stuttgart wrote a manifesto entitled 'Generation Identity: A Declaration of War Against the '68ers', and translated into English from German by Aetius and published in 2013. The book is considered the founding manifesto of the Identitäre Bewegung Österreichs.

In Scandinavia identitarianism was introduced by the now non-active organisation Nordiska Förbundet (Nordic Alliance). It then mobilised a number of "independent activist groups" similar to their French counterparts, among which could be mentioned Reaktion Östergötland and Identitet Väst, who performed a number of spectacular political actions, marked by a certain degree of civil disobedience. A first manifesto, aimed at defining the identitarian movement in Northern Europe, was also published.
The movement also appeared in Germany converging with preexisting circles centering on the magazine Blaue Narzisse. Drawing upon thinkers of the New Right and the Conservative Revolutionary movement such as Oswald Spengler, Carl Schmitt or the contemporary Russian Aleksandr Dugin, it played a role for the rise of the PEGIDA marches in 2014/15.

What is far more likely to give rise to anger is that they are on top of the Quadriga aka the Brandenberg Gate, which is revered by all Berliners, If this was in Vienna and they were standing on the top of the Hofburg spouting their racism the Viennese would be equally angered. LL

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:10 am

I haven't seen a great deal to indicate that modern Berliners revere anything very much, LL - I have never forgotten the pictures of that rubbish and graffiti-strewn Berlin park that had been taken over by drug dealers, mainly Somalian. It was every bit as bad as Govanhill and the Berlin police wouldn't do anything because of Multi Kulti.

And the '68-ers now running Europe are doing far more damage than a bunch of demonstrators waving banners - wherever they're doing it. The more people who object to Europe being trashed and terrorised are demonised as 'Far Right neo-nazis', the angrier those same people are going to get.

It might be a better idea for Berliners to get upset about the destruction of their country, and Europe, than about people standing on top of a monument.

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:52 am

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Lovely. Cleaning up that park is 'racist':

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/aug/18/gorli-berlin-cleaning-up-police-drugs-migrants-racism

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:13 am

That is Görlitzer park in Kreuzberg, I own property in Kreuzberg. I don't know if you have ever been to Berlin, bonny, but one of the biggest problems the city has is the difference in treatment of the two halves of the city. When it was reunified, the eastern half was left to slowly decay, the DDR having never invested in housing etc ony in guns, as the government of the day, backed by the US, went on pumping money into it. I bought my property for a song, unlike our other proeprty in west Berlin, which is owned by the family and is on a par with the ultra posh parts of London. LL
Kreuzberg: Berlin's hip district becomes a battleground between dealers and gentrification
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/kreuzberg-berlin-s-hip-district-becomes-a-battleground-between-dealers-and-gentrification-9909118.html

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:33 am

I can honestly say that Berlin is one place I have no great desire to visit, LL.

I genuinely do not see what not clearing drug dealers out of public parks because they happen to have dark skins has to do with anything except political correctness. And is exactly what leads to angry people sitting on top of historic monuments waving banners.

This business of demonising anyone who objects to their towns, cities, heritage and Europe itself being trashed as 'far Right neo-nazis', instead of admitting there is a problem, is what is driving so many people to Trump, to Farage, to le Pen, Wilders and all the others. And it is, IMO, going to end very, very badly.

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:45 am

I can honestly say that Berlin is one place I have no great desire to visit

A pity as it has so much to offer, wonderful museums, boats on the Havel, great hotels and suburban transport, opera by the greats, superb history and the bust of Nefertiti - genuine, not a copy. You need to look past recent history - I would love to show you the city and also take you to Potsdam which is a riot of colorful houses. Of course, it's isn't Vienna .... only one city can be No 1! rofl

LL

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:14 am

It's not recent history, that doesn't bother me, all nations have black deeds in their past. It's the general appearance - possibly because so much of it was thrown up on the cheap after 1945, and it shows. Soviet architecture is just plain horrible, anyway, which doubtless makes much of the former East look even worse.

Graffiti is just the finishing touch on that concrete, windswept look....

That said, the older parts that survived everything do look attractive, and interesting. I recently watched a documentary about an old Berlin hotel which made it through everything, and it was really lovely, so I assume much of Berlin was like that before the madness took hold?

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:32 am

This is sort-of what I mean:

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The Gate, and the Greek-style buildings at either side survived, though they are obviously battered. But now:

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Hungary is new hot spot on migrant route into EU - Part 2 - Page 35 Berlin-Brandenburger-Gate

To me personally, that is visually very un-appealing. Those grey concrete boxes detract from the Gate, IMO, and the vast space looks windswept and unwelcoming.

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:37 am

You need to separate west Berlin, replete with the US dosh being poured into it and east Berlin where the Soviet Union applied its '10 people, 1 room, shared toilet and kitchen' mantra. Keeping east Berlin shabby and neglected or even street upon street of bombed rubble was their way of holding the unfortunate people down, grind them down for all time. In Viennna, the Soviets withdrew from the city in 1955, in fact the Allies all left Austria at or around that time. Vienna was.like Rome, spared the vagaries of revenge. Would this be the hotel you are referring to? My father and various relatives stayed in it pre-war, I have stayed in it as it is now. My father said pre-war Berlin was wonderful, though he would admit, when my mother was nearby, that Vienna was just a bit better!! LL
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Hungary is new hot spot on migrant route into EU - Part 2 - Page 35 Hotel-adlon-berlin-second-world-war-1945

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**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:50 am

Ah yes, that is it! And your father stayed in it before it got bashed about - he must have had wonderful memories, before the madness took hold of Germany.

It's at the back of my mind that one of the reasons Berlin took such a hammering from the Red Army wasn't just revenge, it was a hangover from the Middle Ages? If besieged cities surrendered, they were treated more or less humanely by the conquerors, but if they fought, no quarter was shown?

I have no doubt that the Red Army would still have wanted to get their own back, but ordering old men and boys to fight them sealed the fate of tens of thousands of Berliners who died needlessly, IMO.

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:05 pm

I asked my Austrian gpa about why the Germans defended Berlin and he said it was total fear of the Cossacks and the Red Army who had already raped and butchered their way across Eastern Europe, they were ignorant peasants, most of whom had never seen a bathroom let alone a flush toilet, snatched from their farms and forced to go to war! Also the Wermacht got so close to Moscow, something only Napoleon had managed a couple of hundred years before. It showed the Politburo that they were vulnerable, especially as the Wermacht had superior weapons. It wasn't the Red Army that defeated the the Germans, or the Tsar's Imperial troops that stopped Napoleon, it was the unpredictable weather. I saw Berlin while it was still flattened, so sad when you see the old photos of how it looked before the Soviets smashed their way into it. By the way, did you know Hitler stayed at the Adlon? LL

**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:12 pm

No, I didn't know that, LL. I supposed the only consolation is that Berlin would have looked even worse if Speer had got to build Greater Germania, or whatever that monstrosity was going to be called.....

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:29 pm

bb1 wrote:No, I didn't know that, LL. I supposed the only consolation is that Berlin would have looked even worse if Speer had got to build Greater Germania, or whatever that monstrosity was going to be called.....

We will never know. Did you know Hitler disliked Berlin, said it was decadent, preferred Munich which was more inclined to be military minded and very much the Blue-Eyed Aryan believers. He aso hated Vienna because it failed to see how great an artist he was, the art school failed him over his entry attempt. He wasn't a great artist, but he wasn't a bad one either, just stilted. He might have turned out to be a better draughtsman though. More at the link. LL
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3120493/Adolf-Hitler-paintings-auction-Nuremburg-little-700.html
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**bb1** Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:45 pm

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It isn't actually all that bad. If I didn't know who painted it, I would rather have that on my walls than most modern 'art'.

**Lamplighter** Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:00 pm

Precisely. I am a nerd where paintings are concerned, "I like what I know" as Vincent Price once said and he should know, being an art critic etc. i like van Gogh and Durer - as you say Hitler's art isn't at all bad, I find it just a bit stiff. At least his perspective seems okay. LL

**lily** Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:12 pm

Although I do like a lot of different schools of art, so called modern art leaves me cold. That includes Picasso.

Although be honest, if I was given one I would not complain but it would head to Sotheby's immediately. rofl

**bb1** Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:50 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704981/unacceptable-angela-merkel-sends-warning-migrants-quotas-viktor-orban

Ms Merkel blasted Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, Romania and Slovakia, who have all been ardent critics of her open-door migrant policy and the EU’s attempt to force countries to accept migrants, in an explosive interview this weekend.

Despite EU leaders repeatedly expressing security concerns, Ms Merkel said countries had no choice but to open their doors to a set number of migrants every year, and to oppose the plan was "unacceptable".

She said: “That’s not right at all that some countries say: ‘generally speaking, we don’t want to have Muslims in our countries.’”

Hungarian PM Viktor Orban has opposed the system ferociously, saying his country did not need to accept “a single migrant”.

He said: “Every single migrant poses a public security and terror risk.”....etc.

Merkel invited them all in without consulting other Europeans = Merkel gets to keep them. What does she think she's going to do about it - invade Poland, or something?

Maybe she's a double agent, and is actually trying to destroy the EU? If so, she's succeeding.

**lily** Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:58 pm

Who knows what her real problems are, Bonny. They could be anything!

**bb1** Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:08 pm

She may have been stricken by a fortunately-rare condition, Lily - Mad German Chancellor-itis. Hasn't been seen for more than 70 years, thankfully, but believing that you are entitled to tell the rest of Europe what to do is one of the worrying symptoms.

**lily** Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:56 pm

Does the mustache come later? Pcorneater

**bb1** Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:57 pm

http://www.thelocal.de/20160901/man-dies-while-trying-to-burn-his-wife-alive-at-refugee-home

A man in a refugee shelter died on Thursday while trying to set his wife on fire, leaving the woman seriously injured and part of the building ablaze, police said.

German killed in Danish stone-throwing ‘murder’ (22 Aug 16)
Arson suspected at Berlin refugee home blaze (08 Aug 16)
The 45-year-old man, whose nationality was not given, was previously known to police, said authorities in Rüdesheim on the Rhine river in the central state of Hesse.

The woman, who had previously separated from her husband, was taken to hospital by helicopter, police said.

Two other people were injured in the fire in the shelter that houses 14 people.

Germany took in around one million asylum seekers last year and expects about 300,000 arrivals this year.

The mass influx has forced Germany to accommodate the newcomers in hostels, sports halls and army barracks, where crowded conditions have at times sparked violent clashes.

In June, two men were investigated for starting a massive fire at a large refugee home in Düsseldorf after a fight broke out over meal times during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

...etc.

Lovely people! Such assets to Europe!

Incidentally, how long can it be before the German economy hits the buffers? Less then sixty of Ma Merkel's party guests have found proper jobs, which means that the rest of the million or so are being supported, day in, day out, by the German state.

Which means the German taxpayer....

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