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War in Ukraine

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War in Ukraine - Page 20 Empty Re: War in Ukraine

Post  bb1 Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:58 pm

Ah well, jaw-jaw is always better, etc.....
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Post  lily Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:07 pm

Yes it is, Bonny.
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Post  bb1 Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:19 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1245880/ukraine-five-killed-at-separatist-checkpoint

A gunbattle at a checkpoint manned by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine has left five dead, it has been claimed.

Russia's state-run Rossiya 24 news station said the five died when gunmen attacked the post near the Ukrainian city of Slavyansk, which is under separatist control.

A separatist interviewed by Reuters at the scene said three of the dead were with the pro-Russian militia.

"We had three dead, four wounded," a fighters called Vladimir told Reuters at the checkpoint, where there were two burned-out jeeps.

A Reuters cameraman at the scene said he saw the bodies of two local fighters, one of whom appeared to have gunshot wounds to the head and face.

One of the dead was dressed in camouflage fatigues, the other in civilian clothes.

Kiev's Interior Ministry said one person had been killed and three injured in an armed clash. It said police were trying to establish more details of what happened.

The separatists claimed the attackers were members of Right Sector, a hard-right fringe group that was part of the anti-Russia movement whose protests in Kiev and western Ukraine forced the former president to leave office.

Pro-Russia Separatist gunmen maintain a firm grip over a string of towns across eastern Ukraine despite an international deal signed last week demanding they leave state buildings they are occupying.


Even five Ukrainians killed fighting each other won't be enough for Kerry; he'll have to get the CIA to photoshop another document he can pretend to be 'outraged' about.
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War in Ukraine - Page 20 Empty Leaflets ordering Jews to register in east Ukraine city or be deported creating fear. Pro-Russian separatists say order isn’t real.

Post  Lamplighter Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:41 am

Leaflets ordering Jews to register in east Ukraine city or be deported creating fear. Pro-Russian separatists say order isn’t real. But someone is trying to scare Ukrainian Jews. The question is: Who?
Statement by Natan Sharansky
April 17, 2014 at 4:25 pm

Here is a statement issued by Natan Sharanksy, head of the Jewish Agency — “an act of provocation.”

(Washington, D.C.) — There is a deeply disturbing article in the USA Today that I encourage you to read and share with others. It reports that leaflets are being spread throughout the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk saying that government officials controlled by pro-Russian forces are ordering Jews to register with local authorities and pay a fee, or they could be deported and their assets could be confiscated.

Secretary of State John Kerry today called such actions “intolerable” and “grotesque.” But pro-Russian separatists flatly deny the allegations that they have been distributing leaflets requiring Jews to register.

The leaflets exist. They’ve been spread all over the city of Donetsk. They’re even printed on official government stationary and they bear the signature of the mayor. But the mayor says he didn’t write it. So who did? Are they a hoax, or official policy?

One thing is clear: someone is targeting the Jewish people of Ukraine, trying to instill fear in them, and trying to get them to leave the country.

“The threat left many of the 15,000 Jews of Donetsk ‘shocked and hysterical,’ the chief rabbi of the city told The Daily Beast in an interview on Thursday,” reports the Daily Beast. “He pointed out where one of the leaflets had been left on a tree outside his synagogue on Oktiabskaya Street. In all of his 20-year service in Donetsk, Rabbi Pinhas Vyshedski said, he could never imagine that anything as ‘cynical’ and ‘anti-human’ could ever happen to his community.”

Here’s the latest:

   Kerry condemns call for Jews to register in Ukrainian city (Reuters/Jerusalem Post/JTA)
   Jews in East Ukraine Are Being Threatened, But By Whom? (Daily Beast)
   What we know about the ‘grotesque’ leaflet handed out to Jews in Donetsk (Washington Post)
   Pro-Russians in Donetsk deny calling for Jews to register — Activists backing Kremlin in eastern Ukraine deny issuing flyers telling Jews they must check in at occupied building (Times of Israel)

That said, given the long history of virulent anti-Semitism in the region, there is reason to be concerned for the safety of the roughly 200,000 Jewish people in Ukraine.

Consider recent headlines:

   Jewish Agency to extend emergency aid to Ukraine’s Jewish community (Ynet News, Feb 23)
   Eastern Ukraine synagogue hit by firebombs (JTA)
   Sharansky: We are quietly saving Jews from Ukraine, Iran (Times of Israel, March 28)
   Ukrainian Jewish Immigration to Israel Rises 70 Percent (Jewish Press, April 7)

As I write about in The Auschwitz Escape, Adolf Hitler made similar legal moves against the Jewish people in the early 1930s, separating them out from the rest of the population. We know where it led — the Final Solution and the gas chambers a few years later. We cannot yet say where the leaders of Donetsk are going with this, but clearly such moves bode ill.

Please pray for the Jewish people in Crimea and throughout Ukraine, for safety and protection and for the Lord to truly bless them amidst this crisis and beyond.

Please also pray for Israeli leaders and other Jewish leaders as they determine how to respond to these developments, should they prove to be true. Is it possible that soon Israel will have to begin airlifting Jews out of Ukraine? If that happens, the Christian community must stand with the Jewish people and help in every way.

Here’s one of the key news reports that set off the international furor:

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

By Oren Dorrell, USA Today, April 17, 2014

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to “register” with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city’s Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee “or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated,” reported Ynet News, Israel’s largest news website.

Donetsk is the site of an “anti-terrorist” operation by the Ukraine government, which has moved military columns into the region to force out militants who are demanding a referendum be held on joining Russia.

The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who identified himself as chairman of “Donetsk’s temporary government,” and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the report.

Pushilin acknowledged the flyers were distributed by his organization but he disavowed their content, according to the web site Jews of Kiev, Ynet reported.

Emanuel Shechter, in Israel, told Ynet his friends in Donetsk sent him a copy of the leaflet through social media.

“They told me that masked men were waiting for Jewish people after the Passover eve prayer, handed them the flyer and told them to obey its instructions,” he said.

The leaflet begins, “Dear Ukraine citizens of Jewish nationality,” and states that all people of Jewish descent over 16 years old must report to the Commissioner for Nationalities in the Donetsk Regional Administration building and “register.”

It says the reason is because the leaders of the Jewish community of Ukraine supported Bendery Junta, a reference to Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Ukrainian nationalist movement that fought for Ukrainian independence at the end of World War II, “and oppose the pro-Slavic People’s Republic of Donetsk,” a name adopted by the militant leadership.

The leaflet then described which documents Jews should provide: “ID and passport are required to register your Jewish religion, religious documents of family members, as well as documents establishing the rights to all real estate property that belongs to you, including vehicles.”

Consequences for non-compliance will result in citizenship bein g revoked “and you will be forced outside the country with a confiscation of property.” A registration fee of $50 would be required, it said.

Olga Reznikova, 32, a Jewish resident of Donetsk, told Ynet she never experienced anti-Semitism in the city until she saw this leaflet.

“We don’t know if these notifications were distributed by pro-Russian activists or someone else, but it’s serious that it exists,” she said. “The text reminds of the fascists in 1941,” she said referring to the Nazis who occupied Ukraine during World War II.

Michael Salberg, director of the international affairs at the New York City-based Anti-Defamation League, said it’s unclear if the leaflets were issued by the pro-Russian leadership or a splinter group operating within the pro-Russian camp.

But the Russian side has used the sceptre of anti-Semitism in a cynical manner since anti-government protests began in Kiev that resulted in the ousting of Ukraine’s pro-Russian former president Viktor Yanukovych. Russia and its allies in Ukraine issued multiple stories about the the threat posed to Jews by Ukraine’s new pro-Western government in Kiev, Salberg said.

Those stories were based in part on ultra-nationalists who joined the Maidan protests, and the inclusion of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party in Ukraine’s new interim government. But the threat turned out to be false, he said.

Svoboda’s leadership needs to be monitored, but so far it has refrained from anti-Semitic statements since joining the government, he said. And the prevalence of anti-Semitic acts has not changed since before the Maidan protests, according to the ADL and the Ukrainian Helsinki Human Rights Union, which monitors human rights in Ukraine.

Distributing such leaflets is a recruitment tool to appeal to the xenophobic fears of the majority, to enlist them to your cause and focus on a common enemy, the Jews,” Salberg said.

And by targeting Donetsk’s Jews, they also send a message to all the region’s residents, Salberg said.

“The message is a message to all the people that is we’re going to exert our power over you,” he said. “Jews are the default scapegoat throughout history for despots to send a message to the general public: Don’t step out of line.”

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine-very-serious-crisis-developing-evocative-of-the-1930s/
Again the Jews are being targetted - but by whom?   Antisemitism is rife in Russia, in fact the word pogrom originally used to describe the treatment of the Jews is a Russian word. LL
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War in Ukraine - Page 20 Empty Re: War in Ukraine

Post  bb1 Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:04 pm

Whoever photoshopped them didn't do a very good job; apparently the supposed 'stamp' is the wrong size, and the script was lifted from an ancient Soviet play about the perils of Fascism.

Clumsy and stupid + designed to cause fear and further divisions = CIA. Especially if that maniac Kerry is involved.

Some more thoughts on it:



http://time.com/67272/ukraine-jew-register-donetsk/
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Post  bb1 Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:28 pm

A flyer ordering Jews in eastern Ukraine to register with pro-Russian forces or face deportation has been branded a fake by religious leaders, including the area's rabbi.
Pamphlets circulating in Donetsk demanded 'citizens of Jewish nationality' over the age of 16 pay $50 to register and be issued special passports 'marking the confession of faith'.
But the flyer, described as 'grotesque' by US Secretary of State John Kerry, has now been classed by the leader of the city's Jewish community as a hoax, aimed at stirring up trouble.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2608486/Grotesque-anti-Semitic-flyer-handed-Jews-Ukraine-fake-aimed-stirring-trouble-discredit-pro-Russians.html#ixzz2zS6zMKlq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I'll take the word of the local Rabbi over that of serial liar Kerry any day.
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Post  lily Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:29 pm

The Rabbi has no reason to lie.
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Post  bb1 Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:12 am

War in Ukraine - Page 20 Joe-bidden

Individual believed to be associated with American government spotted arriving in Kiev.
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Post  bb1 Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:46 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1246878/biden-ukraine-has-a-second-opportunity

US Vice President Joe Biden has met with Ukraine's acting president days after an international agreement was reached to end violence in the country.

Mr Biden addressed MPs at the Ukraine parliament in a show of support for the interim government and is expected to announce new technical support for the government on energy and economic reforms.

He said: "The opportunity to generate a united Ukraine and getting it right is within your grasp.

"And we want to be your partner and friend in the project. We're ready to assist.


Translation: We're going to asset-strip the Ukraine and reduce you to subsistence level and chaos, just like we've done to every other nation we've 'helped' recently, making use of you to stir sh*t with Russia along the way.

Oh, and F*ck the EU.
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:15 am

No other source yet, but there are reports that Kiev has sent armoured vehicles to attack a town in the eastern region:

http://rt.com/news/154544-slavyansk-fighting-east-ukraine/

War in Ukraine - Page 20 Slavyansk-fighting-east-ukraine.si

Fighting has reportedly erupted just outside Slavyansk. Shootout has started between members of the Slavyansk self-defense and unknown gunmen, anti-government activists say.

“Around 40 minutes ago fighting started on the outskirts of Slavyansk,” one of the leaders of self-defense forces, Miroslav Rudenko , told Interfax. We are checking reports of one dead and one injured. There are shootings at a number of checkpoints at some of Slavyansk exit-roads.”


[video]

So, what happened to the truce? Not enough Ukrainian blood being spilled for Obama's liking?
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:50 am

Another version of recent events:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/ukraine-gunmen-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Including:

Former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reproached Russian President Vladimir Putin over the Ukraine crisis while speaking at the University of Connecticut on Wednesday.

I'm sure being nagged by that witch will have helped Putin's mood no end.

Why didn't she let Bill make the call? At least Putin might have some respect for him. Hell, he's probably got more respect for Jimmy Carter than he does this shower of crooks and liars.
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:11 pm

More lies from Washington debunked:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/NYT-Retracts-Russian-Photo-by-Robert-Parry-Journalism_Photographs_Propaganda_Russia-140424-445.html

The photograph published by the New York Times purportedly was taken in Russia of Russian soldiers who later appeared in eastern Ukraine. However, the photographer has since stated that the photo was actually taken in Ukraine, and the U.S. State Department has acknowledged the error.

I wanted to read the retraction from the NYT but it froze my screen, so I am not going to link to that. Others may have better luck.

Only now do we belatedly learn what should have been obvious: the blurry photographs provided by the coup regime in Kiev and endorsed by the Obama administration don't really prove anything. There were obvious alternative explanations to the photos that were ignored by the Times, such as the possibility that these were military veterans who are no longer associated with the Russian military. Or that some photos are not of the same person.

I'm surprised the stupid woman didn't declare that she 'knew' the people were Russians because they had snow on their boots.
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Post  lily Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:59 pm

Another day. Another comment. Speechless.
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:33 pm

I wish to God the US would keep out of this, Lily - what would the US do if a mess like this was unfolding in Northern Mexico? Every single time there's a semi-truce, someone from the US goes and stirs it all up again.

Little though I like either Merkel or Putin, they can at least more or less behave themselves and avoid making matters worse. I don't think for one minute that it's a coincidence that Biden flies into Ukraine and shortly afterwards the unelected corrupt president in Kiev sends the army into the east against the protesters.

Mind you, if this is even half-accurate:

http://rt.com/news/154596-feed-your-army-ukraine/

the army's going to turn on the Kiev lot. It does tally with what the troops who handed over their vehicles last week said - that they weren't being fed or paid. Guess the bribes from Washington aren't trickling down - or maybe F*ck the EU Nuland should make them all cookies again?
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:03 pm

In the comments-

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/ukraine-gunmen-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Neil Clark 15 april 2014

I'm confused. A few weeks ago we were told in the West that people occupying government buildings in Ukraine was a very good thing. These people, we were told by our political leaders and elite media commentators, were 'pro-democracy protestors'.

The US government warned the Ukrainian authorities against using force against these 'pro-democracy protestors' even if, according to the pictures we saw, some of them were neo-Nazis who were throwing Molotov cocktails and other things at the police and smashing up statues and setting fire to buildings.

Now, just a few weeks later, we're told that people occupying government buildings in Ukraine are not 'pro-democracy protestors' but 'terrorists' or 'militants'.

Why was the occupation of government buildings in Ukraine a very good thing in January, but it is a very bad thing in April? Why was the use of force by the authorities against protestors completely unacceptable in January, but acceptable now? I repeat: I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

The anti-government protestors in Ukraine during the winter received visits from several prominent Western politicians, including US Senator John McCain, and Victoria Nuland, from the US State Department, who handed out cookies. But there have been very large anti-government protests in many Western European countries in recent weeks, which have received no such support, either from such figures or from elite Western media commentators. Nor have protestors received free cookies from officials at the US State Department.

Surely if they were so keen on anti-government street protests in Europe, and regarded them as the truest form of 'democracy', McCain and Nuland would also be showing solidarity with street protestors in Madrid, Rome, Athens and Paris? I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

A few weeks ago I saw an interview with the US Secretary of State John Kerry who said, “You just don't invade another country on phony pretexts in order to assert your interests.” But I seem to recall the US doing just that on more than one occasion in the past 20 years or so.

Have I misremembered the 'Iraq has WMDs claim'? Was I dreaming back in 2002 and early 2003 when politicians and neocon pundits came on TV every day to tell us plebs that we had to go to war with Iraq because of the threat posed by Saddam's deadly arsenal? Why is having a democratic vote in Crimea on whether to rejoin Russia deemed worse than the brutal, murderous invasion of Iraq – an invasion which has led to the deaths of up to 1 million people? I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

We were also told by very serious-looking Western politicians and media 'experts' that the Crimea referendum wasn't valid because it was held under “military occupation.” But I've just been watching coverage of elections in Afghanistan, held under military occupation, which have been hailed by leading western figures, such as NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen as a “historic moment for Afghanistan” and a great success for “democracy.” Why is the Crimean vote dismissed, but the Afghanistan vote celebrated? I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

Syria too is rather baffling. We were and are told that radical Islamic terror groups pose the greatest threat to our peace, security and our 'way of life' in the West. That Al-Qaeda and other such groups need to be destroyed: that we needed to have a relentless 'War on Terror' against them. Yet in Syria, our leaders have been siding with such radical groups in their war against a secular government which respects the rights of religious minorities, including Christians.

When the bombs of Al-Qaeda or their affiliates go off in Syria and innocent people are killed there is no condemnation from our leaders: their only condemnation has been of the secular Syrian government which is fighting radical Islamists and which our leaders and elite media commentators are desperate to have toppled. I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

Then there's gay rights. We are told that Russia is a very bad and backward country because it has passed a law against promoting homosexuality to minors. Yet our leaders who boycotted the Winter Olympics in Sochi because of this law visit Gulf states where homosexuals can be imprisoned or even executed, and warmly embrace the rulers there, making no mention of the issue of gay rights.

Surely the imprisonment or execution of gay people is far worse than a law which forbids promotion of homosexuality to minors? Why, if they are genuinely concerned about gay rights, do our leaders attack Russia and not countries that imprison or execute gay people? I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

We are told in lots of newspaper articles that the Hungarian ultra-nationalist party Jobbik is very bad and that its rise is a cause of great concern, even though it is not even in the government, or likely to be. But neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists do hold positions in the new government of Ukraine, which our leaders in the West enthusiastically support and neo-Nazis and the far-right played a key role in the overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected government in February, a ‘revolution’ cheered on by the West. Why are ultra-nationalists and far-right groups unacceptable in Hungary but very acceptable in Ukraine? I'm confused. Can anyone help me?

We are told that Russia is an aggressive, imperialist power and that NATO's concerns are about opposing the Russian ‘threat’. But I looked at the map the other day and while I could see lots of countries close to (and bordering) Russia that were members of NATO, the US-led military alliance whose members have bombed and attacked many countries in the last 15 years, I could not see any countries close to America that were part of a Russian-military alliance, or any Russian military bases or missiles situated in foreign countries bordering or close to the US. Yet Russia, we are told, is the ‘aggressive one’. I'm confused. Can anyone help me?
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Post  lily Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:18 pm

Quite. Applause......
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Post  lily Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:18 pm

Up is down and black is white too..... mad 
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:29 pm

That's it - there's no sense to Obama's foreign policy. It seems to consist of sh*t-stirring in one trouble spot after another, with different rules each time, blaming Russia, demanding the UK and EU back him up, then wondering why they don't.

It's a policy of madness, IMO, and is doing the US dreadful damage in the world.
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Post  lily Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:44 pm

There are times that I think he doesn't like the US or Americans.

He did say that it was not exceptional. It used to be......
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Post  bb1 Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:54 pm

Yes, it did. I was watching a documentary about some past crisis the other night; it showed one of Ronald Reagan's White House addresses.

What a difference! He spoke with authority, and clarity, and respect for his office and Americans.

I think you're right, Obama doesn't actually like America very much, so doesn't care if he causes disasters, loses allies, etc. He doesn't care about Chicago or Detroit, or the Constitution, so why should he care about world affairs?
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Post  lily Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:23 pm

I loved Reagan, I really did. I think it went somewhat downhill after him.

When you think about it, it is this attitude that confounds people, Bonny. They know he doesn't seem to support the country which has been very kind to him and his family.

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Post  bb1 Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:38 am

http://news.sky.com/story/1248949/us-accuses-russia-of-ukraine-deception

US Accuses Russia Of Ukraine 'Deception'
In an uncompromising message, US Secretary of State John Kerry warns Moscow: "The window to change course is closing


Allegations of deception don't sit well from the liar that waved a photoshopped document around to stir up trouble, and that tried to start a war in Syria AFTER it had been demonstrated that it was his own chums that used poison gas in that troubled nation.
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Post  lily Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:47 pm

Ggggrrrrrr.....
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Post  bb1 Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:56 pm

He's a menace, strutting around spouting his bombastic, warmongering lies - he's been on top form today. He's picked a fight with Russia Today because it's Russian propaganda...

No sh*t, Sherlock! He forgot to mention that CNN is pro-Obama propaganda, Fox is Republican propaganda, BBC is Westminster propaganda, AJ is Qatar-biased, and Euronews is pro-Europe propaganda.

Every single news outlet is biased in one way or another, the trick is to try to read as many as possible and work out which one is telling the fewest lies.

Kerry should be in a padded cell in a straightjacket, he seems hell-bent on pouring petrol on bonfires. Hasn't he noticed no-one in Europe is backing him up, and that Merkel and Putin are talking discreetly - hopefully without NSA eavesdropping.
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War in Ukraine - Page 20 Empty Re: War in Ukraine

Post  lily Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:27 pm

Couldn't agree more, Bonny.
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War in Ukraine - Page 20 Empty Re: War in Ukraine

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