MALAYSIAN AIRLINER 'SHOT DOWN' OVER UKRAINE

The only saving grace is the stick that the news outlets are getting for their lying in the comments sections, Lily, thank God not everyone is joining in Hate Week.

I suspect Kiev may be seething - and if they did have anything to do with the downing of the plane, scared. Notice they were kept out of the chain? The international observers kept an eye on things at the crash sites as best they could, and then the federalist leaders handed over the recorders to Malaysian officials with proper paperwork in front of the cameras.

And even I would trust Farnborough not to be leaned on.

Farnborough is well chosen for this, they dealt with the Comet crashes in 1954, and were instrumental in the discovery of metal fatigue, as I recall. They have also investigated other crashes over the years. No one will lean on the scientists there. LL

Agree, LL, as I say, even I would trust Farnborough, they have a fine record in painstaking work to find out exactly why planes have fallen from the sky, no matter who ends up embarrassed by the result.

A perfect example of the kind of idiot that swallows down media hysteria without thinking, in Sky comments:

There is little doubt, I fear that Forensic evidence will have been tampered with, and sadly I fear including the black boxes. We may find it very difficult to get the evidence we need to isolate the true culprits in this heinous crime.


What? Have these people any idea how complicated/sensitive flight recorders are? You can't just crack them open and change data, like putting a new sim card in a cellphone. Are people really so STUPID that they can't grasp, well, anything?

Bonny, we see it time and time again. Why should that be any different?

Notice who has been unusually quiet through all this?



Mrs 'Nuke eastern Ukraine' seems strangely subdued.....

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-admits-its-mh17-evidence-is-based-on-youtube-clips-social-media-posts/

The idiotic Harf woman, announcing that the US is basing its policy in these difficult times on...twitter and YouTube. Full marks to the AP reporter attempting to get sense out of her.

Shocking, isn't it?

It's insulting, frankly, Lily.

I see Washington is supposed to be producing their 'evidence' later, just as soon as the guys in Langley have given it a few finishing touches.

Sad that I have to agree.

The ravings from Kiev are at the start of this link, but aren't actually of any value. This seems to be tonight's US position:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/22/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

.S. officials say pro-Russian rebels were responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they now believe it's likely the rebels didn't know the plane was a commercial airliner when they opened fire, U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday.
MH17 bodies arrive in Kharkiv MH17 black boxes handed over to Malaysia Obama: Truth about MH17 must be known
Photos: Reaction to MH17 Photos: Reaction to MH17
The officials have determined that Russia bears some responsibility for the incident because of its support for the rebels, but they haven't been able to determine exactly who fired the missile, whether Russian military were at the site or whether the Russians were directly responsible for launching the missile.
Moscow has denied claims that it pulled the trigger. And Russian Army Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov suggested a Ukrainian jet fighter may have shot the plane down.

Oh, and there's a map:



Barbara Starr ✔ @barbarastarrcnn
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Here is satellite trajectory of #FlightMH17 and the missile US says shot it down. @NatSecCNN @cnnbrk
1:23 PM - 22 Jul 2014

Maybe there will be more later, but I won't be staying up to wait. If that's the 'evidence', then it doesn't hold a candle to the reams of data, figures and graphs released by Russia. A point also being made here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-22/us-state-department-confident-mh17-mistakenly-downed-separatists-finds-no-direct-lin

Which finishes:

So - to sum up - having told the world that they would release details surrounding intelligence about the MH17 disaster, US officials have pulled a "trust us" moment... blamed the "terrorists" and given themselves an out with Putin... all with absolutely no public proof whatsoever...

* * *

Which leaves us with one question - What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?

That Albright woman has had the nerve to say:

Former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said Flight 17 victims are "completely tied up in what is one of the most disgusting discussions I've heard in terms of the lies that are being put forward by President Putin and the propaganda that the Russians are putting out about this

Personally, I found this really, really disgusting:

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.

She has NO right to criticise anyone after that.

God Almighty!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/22/no-evidence-direct-russian-link-to-plane-us-officials-say/

WASHINGTON – Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.

The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.

But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.

In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 percent sure of a nationality," one official said, adding at another point, "There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here."

The officials said the most likely explanation for why the plane was shot down is that the rebels made a mistake. Separatists previously had shot down 12 Ukrainian military airplanes, the officials said.

The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it. For example, they cited a video of a missile launcher said to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.

But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that the video was exactly what it purported to be.

On Monday, President Barack Obama said the Malaysia Airlines plane "was shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine." He also said Russia has both trained the separatists and "armed them with military equipment and weapons, including anti-aircraft weapons."

Utterly, utterly shameful, that Washington and Westminster have drummed up all this hysteria when they have NO evidence of anything, except bl**dy twitter and YouTube.

Washington produces garbage about twitter and videos as 'evidence; Russia makes a detailed, half-hour presentation of facts and figure for the entire world to see, even though it's above most people's heads.

It says it all, really. 'Washington intelligence' is now an oxymoron.

Sure seems that way, Bonny.   

People used to wonder why, 100 years ago, young men rushed to get themselves slaughtered in a war between three cousin-Emperors, each one convinced God was on their side and that their Country Needed Them - as well as hanging Dachshunds. How could they fall for such crude propaganda, we wondered.

Now we know. There's a chunk of the population which is incapable of thinking for itself and will unquestioningly believe any old rubbish their Side tells them in the media.

The only consolation is that other governments aren't quite so dumb, so however much hot air is being emitted by Washington and Westminster at present, they will be able to assess this garbage for what it is. Over the long term, Washington has only itself to blame if it finds other nations - apart from whichever lapdog is in Westminster - gradually distancing themselves over this insult to the intelligence and the governments churning it out.

Something else - why is so little mention being made of the fact that this disaster happened right under the noses of much of NATO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-nato-romania-drills-idUSKBN0FM1I020140717

Seven NATO countries end Black Sea war games
BUCHAREST Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:54am EDT
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(Reuters) - Seven NATO countries completed naval exercises in the Black Sea on Thursday, officials said, in a signal of the alliance's resolve to support east European members who have been unnerved by Russia's behavior in the Ukraine crisis.

Though scheduled before the crisis erupted, the war games took on added significance because of Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Black Sea peninsula of Crimea in March, and the subsequent outbreak of a pro-Russian separatist rebellion in eastern Ukraine.

Led by the Bulgarian navy, the 10-day drills aimed to improve tactical coordination of allied units "in a multi-threat environment," NATO has said. Vessels took part from Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Britain and the United States.

"The navy exercises BREEZE 2014 successfully concluded," a Bulgarian defense ministry spokesman said. The Romanian Navy said exercises involved commercial traffic monitoring, reaction to asymmetric threat warnings, anti-submarine warfare and artillery firing.


Yet NONE of them picked up on this missile launch? They know so little about it, the US is reduced to investigation-by-twitter? Aye, right.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-intelligence-us-20140722-story.html

U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.

Oh, so now the US is admitting that its allies in Kiev have sixty of these things, in full working order?

In a couple of days or so, they might get round to admitting that Kiev WAS deploying them in the area of the attack, because they thought Russia was going to retaliate as Russia was none too pleased about Russian villages being bombed by the Kiev cowboys.

Interesting to note that the rhetoric, hysteria and warmongering has very much lessened today.

*sigh*

Says it all......

Can you imagine if this was 1962, and Kennedy claimed he'd read about the missiles on twitter.....

He'd be laughed out of office, Bonny, on his way to see a psychiatrist.

My friends, this was taken from Correio da Manhã newspaper:

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/ultima-hora/cresce-pressao-internacional-para-retirar-mundial2018-a-russia

football

Growing international pressure to withdraw Russian from the Mundial2018

Decisions regarding the realization of the Mundial2018 are exclusive of Fifa also of of its leaders.

German politicians called on Wednesday that Russia would withdraw from the organization of the Mundial2018 football after a plane crash in Malaysia in Ukraine, which has been attributed by the international community to pro-Russian separatists.

The interior minister of the state of Hesse (Midwest), Peter Beuth (CDU), considers "inconceivable" that the Mundial2018 can take place in Russia "if Moscow does not actively cooperate in the investigation of the incident."

My friends, this was taken from Sky News:

http://news.sky.com/story/1306186/mh17-victims-bodies-arrive-in-the-netherlands

Thank you, Pedro.

My friends, this was taken from Correio da Manhã newspaper:

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/internacional/mundo/ministro-emociona-se-ao-falar-das-vitimas-do-mh17

Minister in tears to talk about the victims of MH17

Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs, Frans Timmermans, was in tears while talking about the victims of flight MH17.

"I have been thinking about how terrible must have been the last moments of their [victims] lives, when they knew the plane was going to crash," said Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans.

The minister went on to speak of emotional way: "Did they joined hands to people who loved and embraced Did their children looked in the eye one last time, one last goodbye without words we never know??."

SEE BELOW DUTCH MINISTER'S SPEECH (IN ENGLISH)