By-elections in England

Thanks, LL. I'll take time to read that properly. I have to say, elements of the Romanians/Roma have done near-irreparable damage to the the image of the EU in the UK; we'd enough criminals and beggars of our own, without importing them. Not all of them, I stress, but a fair number are just....awful.

bb1 wrote:Thanks, LL. I'll take time to read that properly. I have to say, elements of the Romanians/Roma have done near-irreparable damage to the the image of the EU in the UK; we'd enough criminals and beggars of our own, without importing them. Not all of them, I stress, but a fair number are just....awful.

 You're welcome.  I know what you mean about the Romanians, but I can tell you that most of the 'Roma' you see in the UK are actually Romanians, not Roma.   The big problem is that the UK is far more generous in its assistance to these 'poor' immigrants; much of what they get up to would never get pass the cops in other EU countries.   They bypass the countries that might clamp down on them, ie checking papers etc, and make for the French ports and the ferries to the UK and Ireland.   If the UK authorities were more severe and made the UK benefit dossers work for their money and not leech off the state, there would be less reason for foreigners to be employed.  As it is at present, a hard clampdown on the migrant workers in the UK would severely hit the farmers etc who rely on them working on the harvests etc.    Better to deal with the rogue gangmasters and the farmers etc who turn a blind eye to what is going on - profits first, human misery a distant second, then start cutting the benefits of those who sit all day at home with their Playstations etc while others work and finance their laziness.   LL

You won't find too many of the indigenous unemployed doing that nowadays, LL, which is making the problem worse, not better.

The sick - genuinely sick, with heart problems, cancer, etc - are being absolutely hammered by assorted government schemes to force them to work. So the spectacle of new immigrants getting money for nothing is not going down well at all. It's a mess, frankly, and as I said earlier, I don't see it ending well.

Greed is an ugly disease which too many politicians seem prone to.   

Thanks for the explanation, LL.  

There isn't an easy answer to any of it, Lily. My own feeling is that the whole UK system needs turned on its head, with Scotland going its own way, Wales doing similar if it wishes, Northern Ireland reuniting with the South if it wishes - and English regions being given far more charge of their own affairs.

The M25 corridor is, frankly, sucking the life out of everyone else. And a government made up of millionaires that happily vote themselves huge pay rises while penalising those at the bottom doesn't help. Labour's no better, with Milliband the millionaire Marxist in charge.

The old way simply isn't working any longer, and this row over the EU could well turn into the thing that brings it all down.

Ask anyone in Britain - apart from an elite few - what they get out of the EU and they will look at you blankly. IMO, political power needs to be brought back nearer the electorate, not further and further away.

Bringing the power closer to the people is what so many politicians don't want?  Too much hard work to campaign and even more to show the people that you mean what you say and you do it for the good?

Also, the nearer they are to the voters, the less nonsense they can get up to.

Especially that.  However, they could receive respect and admiration for doing a great job?

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21567914-how-britain-could-fall-out-european-union-and-what-it-would-mean-making-break

Thanks, LL, that's an interesting piece, that bore proper reading. Frankly, I now can see huge benefits to leaving, and few insurmountable problems.

I am in two minds about this, from a hopefully unbiased point of view. At first, that latest demand seemed outrageous. But then I began to wonder just how much Britain has received in subsidies in the past.
Happy to take but not happy to give.

Immigrants to France from UK do not automatically receive benefits. In fact, as far as I have experienced, there are none. And I did make an effort some years ago when I was going through a rough patch. There was absolutely nothing that I could claim.
So why does UK have to give money to these people? A large number of them wouldn't bother if they knew there was nothing to be had.

I'm sort of floating in the middle, Sabot, I approved of the Common Market, but I don't really approve of the EU in its current state, so it's interesting to see what people that actually live there make of it all....

No, don't ask me why Britain is such a soft touch with new arrivals, especially when, as I said earlier, the indigenous population is hammered should people lose their jobs, be unable to work through illness, etc.

It's all a terrible mess, but no-one seems prepared to sort it out. And millionaire MPs that fiddle their expenses to get their moats cleaned out courtesy of the taxpayer don't help one bit - the day may come when they will need those moats to keep the furious peasants out.

Should be good, watching Cameron trying to get out of this jam.

Honestly, after reading that it makes the EU sound like the mafia?

They could probably give the mafia lessons in getting other people's money stuck to their fingers, Lily. I genuinely don't know how Cameron is going to get out of this jam; he must be cursing the EU, and Merkel, for picking the worst possible time to start telling the UK what to do - or what not to do.

Since when does the UK have to do what they say?  Or am I missing something?

I think it's part of the whole deal, Lily - it's horribly complicated. Us happy European nations are supposed to co-operate and agree with each other about all sorts of things. The fact that it takes almost nothing for said happy European nations to start flinging assorted racial stereotypes and insults at each other indicates all this co-operating is little more than window dressing.

Ah...window dressing with their hand out?   They sound so greedy........

Mind you, they are not alone.  

http://news.sky.com/story/1361351/cameron-uk-will-not-meet-1-7bn-eu-bill-demand

David Cameron insists there is "no pressing need" for the UK to pay £1.7bn to the EU - despite a warning of a substantial fine.

The surcharge was made public at an EU summit last week - but Mr Cameron said the UK would not meet the 1 December deadline.

EU Budget Commissioner Jacek Dominik has told tonight's Ian King Live - which airs at 6.30pm - the UK could face a "significant" fine if the payment is delayed.

But in a statement to the Commons, Mr Cameron said: "The scale and timing of the demand is not acceptable.

"It cannot just be nodded through by the EU bureaucracy - it is British taxpayers' money.

"There are fundamental issues of the fairness of these payments.

"We will be challenging this in every way possible. We want to check on the way the statistics were arrived at, the methodology that was used. We will crawl through this in exhaustive detail."

The demand is the result of improvements to Britain's economy since 1995 and would add almost a fifth to the UK's annual contribution of £8.6bn.

Outgoing Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso has insisted Brussels is only following the procedures created by member states to balance the EU's books each year.

Mr Cameron has called for an emergency meeting of EU finance ministers to discuss the surcharge - and told the Commons he had been backed by Italy, Holland, Malta, Greece and others.

But Labour leader Ed Miliband told MPs he wrote to the Treasury Committee seven months ago about a potential surcharge - and accused the Prime Minister of "sleeping at the wheel".

"This is a familiar pattern with this Prime Minister: months and months when he doesn't do the work followed by last-minute pyrotechnics when it all goes wrong," he said.

Preliminary figures seen by the Financial Times suggest Britain is facing the largest adjustment in the amount it must pay compared to other member states.

The Netherlands is being asked for an extra £509m, but by contrast France is due to receive a rebate of £0.8bn, Germany £618m, and Poland £250m.

Britain's surcharge is due for payment just days after the Rochester and Strood by-election, which hangs on a knife edge with anti-EU UKIP threatening to wrest the seat from the Tories.

Unbelievable.  The people on the top seem to have lost all sense of proportion when they ask for more of the taxpayers' money.

I reckon Brussels is desperate for money?

Heaven knows, Lily - maybe they need to bribe Ukraine again, or something?

I'm actually not sure it's even anything as sensible as that, I have a feeling the Brussels pen-pushers are doing it just because they can, and to Hell with the consequences. Never mind the UK, it makes NO sense to demand money from bankrupt Greece and give thriving Germany a rebate.

But if you think that's crazy.....

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/29/drugs-prostitution-uk-national-accounts

Drugs and prostitution to be included in UK national accounts
Contribution of drug dealers and prostitutes to the UK economy boosted figures by £10bn according to estimates

What????  

How on earth are they getting the documents to support that?