Referendum aftermath

http://blogs.reuters.com/anatole-kaletsky/2014/09/26/why-the-threat-of-devolution-still-looms-over-britain/

That's a good, non-partisan, piece, explaining exactly why Cameron and the Vowers have created such a constitutional nightmare.

Oh my oh my!  

Quite, Lily. I personally don't think the circle can be squared. We live in interesting times.

We do indeed, Bonny.   Some people may even be ruing all the malicious tricks they pulled on you guys.

Spain is getting nasty as the Catalonian vote draws near:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/29/us-spain-catalonia-idUSKCN0HO0XR20140929?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

(Reuters) - The Spanish government on Monday formally asked the constitutional court to declare illegal Catalonia's planned vote on independence from Spain, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement.

"Neither the object nor the proceedings of the vote are compatible with the Spanish constitution," Rajoy said after the president of the Spanish northeastern region on Saturday called the vote for November 9.

(Reporting by Julien Toyer; Editing by Paul Day)

And what, precisely, does Madrid think it's going to do if Catalonia votes to leave? Send in tanks like the USSR did to Hungary and Czechoslovakia?

This is only the beginning.  

Yes, wait till Texas really gets going.

Fingers crossed...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/labour-fears-english-votes-plan-will-halt-new-powers.25442967

Sources close to Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont have suggested the Prime Minister's "English votes for English laws" announcement, made after the No vote in the independence referendum, makes it more difficult to reach a compromise on devolving income tax to Holyrood.

The warning is the first major sign of simmering tensions between the parties over new powers.

Ken Clarke, the former Tory Chancellor, has intervened in the row, urging UK ministers to "hold their horses" in trying to solve the so-called English Question.

"We've got to resist an English ­backlash," he declared during a fringe meeting at the Conservative conference in Birmingham. "I'm a Unionist - we're trying to hold the Union together, not encouraging the other nations to start getting stirred up."

The Tory big beast made clear the extra-powers pledge for Holyrood must be honoured within the agreed ­timetable, but added: "I would hold my horses on the rest because there is a whole separate debate to be had about devolution within England.

"There are all kinds of other issues raised about the relationship between England and the three smaller nations and the position of the Welsh, which gets ever more anomalous."

*chuckle*

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-29/spot-total-logic-fail

Spot The Total Logic Fail


It appears the leadership in Spain has reached its panic-point. Following Catalonia's President Artur Mas signing of a decree calling for an ultimately democratic referendum on independence for the region, Spanish Prime Minister Rajoy uttered this mind-numbing phrase:

CATALAN VOTE PROFOUNDLY ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, RAJOY SAYS

It appears Rajoy's perspective on democracy and the will of the people is a little different as the situation has become serious enough that he has gone full-Juncker.

More Spanish panic at link.

Oh dear!   This democracy thing is tough to define then?   

I think it works sort of like Free Speach, Lily......

This one is going to be very interesting indeed; the Catalans seem to be running the whole show themselves, and have shut Madrid out. Maybe that's the answer - don't try to play fair with people that will grind you into dust, given half the chance.

That approach does make sense.  They probably looked at you guys and thought it was not how they wanted it to be?

Oh my!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29410493

Spain court suspends Catalonia independence referendum

Spain's Constitutional Court has suspended Catalonia's planned independence referendum.

The court said it first needed to consider arguments whether the 9 November vote breached the country's constitution.

It acted on a request from the Spanish central government in Madrid.

The head of Catalonia, the wealthy north-eastern Spanish region, signed a decree on Saturday calling for the referendum.

But Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy told reporters that the vote was not "compatible with the Spanish constitution".

"Nobody and nothing will be allowed to break up Spain."

He was speaking in a televised statement to the nation after holding an emergency cabinet meeting.

Hundreds of thousands of Catalans joined a protest in Barcelona recently, calling for their right to vote.

Unhappy at Spain's refusal to give Catalans more powers, protesters have been energised by Scotland's recent independence referendum, and many also waved the Scottish flag.

Local laws
Catalonia's 7.5 million inhabitants make up approximately 16 % of the population of Spain. Yet it is one of Spain's richest and most highly industrialised regions, as well as one of its most independent-minded.

Spain's deepening economic crisis, though, has seen a surge in support for separation.

Hours after Catalonia leader Artur Mas signed the decree on Saturday, the turnout marking a key annual day of celebration in Barcelona was substantial, with tens of thousands of people using the occasion to rally for the right to hold a referendum on independence.

"La Diada", as the 300th anniversary of the end of the city's siege is known locally, has become a show of force for the Catalan independence movement.

On 19 September, the regional Catalan parliament voted by 106 to 28 in favour of granting Catalonia's president the power to hold a referendum, known locally as a "consultation".

Mr Mas, who was re-elected in December 2012, says he can use local laws to hold the vote, even though the central government says its blessing is required.

"I can't pretend that this will be easy, but it doesn't work just coming out to protest once a year," Mr Mas said on Catalan television at the weekend.

"The future is something you conquer, not a gift, and we have to earn that," he added.

A recent poll for Spain's El Pais newspaper showed that 45% of Catalans were in favour of suspending the referendum if the Constitutional Court declared it illegal.

Only 23% would like the referendum to go ahead regardless, the survey suggested.

Mr Mas has only recently become a supporter of full independence. Since 2007, he has spearheaded a push to revitalise Catalan nationalism known as the Refoundation of Catalanism.


And I am sure the Catalans have learned from our experience about dodgy polls and dirty tricks and will ignore what Madrid, or its mouthpieces, have to say.

Oh, the irony!

Isn't it just!  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11128960/Gordon-Brown-and-David-Cameron-accused-of-smashing-the-Union.html

Gordon Brown and David Cameron accused of 'smashing' the Union
Labour peer Lord Glasman tells a Tory conference fringe meeting that both parties have acted in their short-term political interests during the Scottish independence debate without thought to the consequences.

Gordon Brown and David Cameron have “smashed” the Union by acting in their parties’ short-term political interests, a Labour peer has warned despite the Scottish nationalists losing the independence referendum.
Lord Glasman said Mr Brown’s promise of “a modern form of Scottish home rule” during the final days of the referendum campaign was incompatible with being part of the United Kingdom.
The academic and social thinker said one of the consequences was that Mr Brown would be the last Scottish Prime Minister and described this as a “tragedy for our country”.
Mr Cameron’s promise to ban Scottish MPs from voting on English laws in tandem with handing the Scottish Parliament more powers was a “classic case” of the parties “playing with the constitution”, he said.
Instead of thinking only about their “immediate self interest” and how announcements would play with voters, the peer said both sides needed to “step back” and think carefully about how they should reform the Union.

Lord Glasman was speaking at a fringe meeting at the Conservative conference in Birmingham hosted by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) about the impact of the referendum on England and the Union.
With the independence referendum on a knife edge earlier this month, all three pro-UK parties signed up to Mr Brown’s promise to create a “new Union” after a No vote with a fast-track timetable for devolving more powers over taxes and benefits.
But the cross-party consensus was shattered only hours after the result was announced when Mr Cameron announced outside Downing Street that the issue of English votes for English laws must be decided “in tandem”.
This would prevent Scottish MPs, 40 of which are Labour, voting at Westminster on issues such as English education and health care and would seriously hamper Ed Miliband’s ability to govern if he wins the general election.
Lord Glasman pointed out that Mr Cameron had not mentioned the English issue during the referendum campaign, saying: “This is just a classic case of both parties playing with the constitution in terms of their immediate party self interest.

“What we’ve done is smash the Union. Brown stood up and made a speech after which it was incapable for any Scot to be Prime Minister again – he’s the last. That’s a tragedy for our country.”
The lecturer in political theory at London Metropolitan University concluded: “If there’s a Union, there’s a Union but you can’t have home rule, complete control over your own affairs. I think we’ve got to step back here and re-conceptualise the Union.”
He said the No vote had left a “huge number of problems” and attacked the pro-UK Better Together campaign as being based on “begging, bullying and bribing. It was a nasty.”
Nick Pearce, the IPPR’s director, said the question over whether there could ever again be a Scottish Chancellor was more “pressing” the Scottish Prime Minister issue thanks to the Unionist parties’ plans to devolve income tax.
He said: “The minute all of income tax is decided in Scotland by a Scottish finance minister, it makes it much harder for an English chancellor (from Scotland) to legislate in a budget for English income tax."
Speaking on the same panel, Rory Stewart, the Tory MP for Penrith and the Border, backed the Prime Minister’s English laws announcement but agreed with Lord Glasman that there needed to be a new “vision” of the United Kingdom and its constitution.

“We’re now moving into a world in which parties will be increasingly tempted to fiddle around again and again and again in more and more ingenious ways, most of which are forms of electoral gerrymandering, most of which are simply designed in order to suit their own short-term party interests” the chair of the Commons defence committee said.


He said the No vote had left a “huge number of problems” and attacked the pro-UK Better Together campaign as being based on “begging, bullying and bribing. It was a nasty.”

Who was it that said that a narrow No win would be the worst possible outcome? Oh yes, it was me.

The Glorious Union cannot last much longer, but I love the irony of it being finally destroyed by the rotten bunch that lied and cheated to save it.

I hope the gods hear that on this side of the pond too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11127836/Businesses-that-speak-out-for-Britains-EU-membership-will-be-punished-vows-John-Redwood.html

Businesses that speak out for Britain's EU membership will be punished, vows John Redwood
Leading Tory eurosceptic says companies who publicly back staying in EU will pay 'very dear economic and financial price", with executives potentially losing their jobs

John Redwood has vowed to punish businesses who speak out in favour of Britain remaining in the European Union.
Mr Redwood, one the most senior Tory Eurosceptics, said companies who did not stay silent on the country's EU membership would pay a "very dear economic and financial price".
Chief executives who decide to take a corporate position on the issue could lose their jobs while those campaigning against membership would ensure there were financial consequences, Mr Redwood warned.
The former Welsh secretary demanded firms "keep out" of the debate and "beware" not to "meddle in politics".
Mr Redwood told a fringe event about Britain's place in the EU that "the only answer for all concerned is for big business to keep out and not express a corporate view".

He added: "If they don't understand that now they will find those of us organising the 'get out' campaign will then make life difficult for them by making sure that their customers, their employees and their shareholders who disagree with them - and there will be a lot who disagree with them - will be expressing their views very forcefully and will be destablising their corporate governance.
"This is absolutely crucial that these people get this. That it will be deeply disruptive to their businesses, and maybe even to their own tenure of their jobs, if a chief executive with a handful of shares thinks he can put the voice of a multi-national corporation behind a highly intense political argument in one country in which they operate.
"It would be extremely foolish and we must make sure they have to pay a very dear economic and financial price were they to try that ill-judged thing."

What truly staggering hypocrisy!

Did I read that right?

Yup. Amazing, isn't it?

In my opinion, Britain leaving The EU will be good for Britain but bad for The EU, so one way or the other I don't really care.

But one thing does bother me. I didn't vote at all in the original referendum because I didn't really understand what it amounted to due to the general public being deliberately ill informed by The Government of the time.

I seriously would not like that to happen again. So both sides of the story have to be told. Although I am beginning to doubt that they will. This is not Democracy.

I voted to join the Common Market, Sabot. I didn't vote for this bloated, bureaucratic monster it's turned into. So I am a Don't Know at present. I'm in favour of trading alliances, etc., and don't suffer from this UKIP-ish terror of furriners. But I don't like the EU in its present form.

You're right, we won't get the truth about it from any of them, though.

Isn't it sad that they cannot be trusted?