Re: Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:34 am

bb1 wrote:Oh, he said it to get votes, LL, they're his words, and he owns them. Or, if he can't control his own tongue, then he isn't fit to lead the country.

A manky racist like him doesn't change his spots overnight. I was very pleased to see the Joint List party refused to accept his apology and that the White House made adverse comments re what he said. I am minded of the cry of Henry ll over Becket - "Will no-one rid me us of this ~~rebellious priest~~ murderous racist?" LL

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:45 am

Let us not forget, he's another that outright lied to the UN, LL, with his stupid 'bomb' cartoon.

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 OB-UT309_0927bo_G_20120927143341

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 OB-UT309_0927bo_G_20120927143341

He's been claiming Iran was 'just months' away from developing nuclear weapons for the best part of twenty years now - when it's actually Israel that has them, and refuses to co-operate with weapons inspectors.

Shouldn't Israel be invaded and regime-changed for that? Wink

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:56 am

The problem is that for 70 years the mantra that 'No one was there to help us, no-one stopped the Holocaust' has been rammed down peoples' throats 24/7. As you know, I am 'pro' Jewish but not 'pro' Israel and I get fed up to my back teeth with the permanent squealing from them every time anyone dares to criticize them. I'm not alone in this, my Jewish friends in the UK, Austria and here feel the same way. The Holocaust happened, that cannot be denied, but what about the Roma and Senti, the gays, the poor disabled and mentally ill people that were also murdered? Who speaks for them? No-one. They are the forgotten dead, pushed out of sight, out of mind while Netanyahu and his cronies destroy yet more innocents. It makes me mad, and very sad. LL

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:09 am

I suspect the Holocaust card is starting to wear thin with the passage of time, LL. And there is NO justice in Palestinians having their land stolen, and Gazans being bombed, in 2014//15, because of what Nazis did in the 1940's.

The Zionists have turned into the Nazis, IMO. And yes, there is a big difference between being Jewish and being Zionist.

It's like Germans/Nazis. Or Russians/Communists.

Unfortunately, it seems to be ordinary Jewish folk that are being targeted by extremists, and blamed for the actions of Zionists. Even though many Zionists aren't even Jewish.

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:14 am

WTF? Not being a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal, I will have to take Fox's version:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/24/israel-reportedly-spied-on-iran-nuclear-talks-in-effort-to-lobby-congress/

srael has spied on the ongoing nuclear talks with Iran as part of a campaign to convince members of Congress to oppose an agreement, according to a published report.

The Wall Street Journal says that Israel's lobbying effort has angered Obama administration officials, one of whom told the paper that "something serious has shifted here."

"It is one thing for the U.S. and Israel to spy on each other. It is another thing for Israel to steal U.S. secrets and play them back to U.S. legislators to undermine U.S. diplomacy," the paper quoted a senior U.S. official as saying.

Other officials said Israel is one of the most aggressive countries in terms of spying on the U.S., along with Russia, China and France. That claim was strongly denied by an Israeli official, which said the allegations were "clearly intended to undermine the strong ties between the United States and Israel and the security and intelligence relationship we share."

According to the Journal, Israel has denied spying on U.S. officials during the talks, relying on other methods, including surveillance of the Iranian negotiating team and information from European parties to the talks, particularly France, whose negotiating position has been considered to be the closest to Israel's

More at link.

As Lily said earlier, it's a pity a Jewish homeland in Arizona hadn't gone ahead, instead of them grabbing land in the very UN-Holy Land that was already occupied by other people.

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:06 pm

Ynet News
Itamar Eichner
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4638834,00.html

Israel is protesting Hungary's Eurovision entry, which includes criticism against Operation Protective Edge and mentions the number of Palestinian children killed during the 2014 Israeli military campaign.

Israeli Ambassador Ilan Mor turned to the Hungarian broadcasting authority, expressed his country's reservations over the planned song and asked that the problematic segment be removed.

The Eurovision Song Contest will be held in May in Vienna, Austria. Hungary's song this year, "Wars for Nothing," will be performed by a group of three singers led by Hungarian singer-songwriter Boggie. The song has an anti-war message, focusing on the victims of violence and wars in the world. One of the captions in the song's video refers to Operation Protective Edge, stating: "2014 – Gaza – two-thirds of the victims were civilians, including more than 500 children."

Although Israel isn't mentioned by name in the song, Ambassador Mor asked the Hungarian broadcasting authority to remove the sentence about the Gaza war, explaining that it is seen as an "inconvenient" political message against Israel.

A senior official in the Hungarian broadcasting authority stressed in a conversation with Mor that the Eurovision rules ban political messages during the competition, and promised that the sentence about Operation Protective Edge would be erased.

The ambassador also offered to meet with the members of the Hungarian group in order to explain the reasons for his request. The offer is being looked into.

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:16 pm

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:36 pm

bb1 wrote:

Precisely, and as it is sung in English far more people are going to understand it than if it was sung in Magyar. I still don't think Israel, which is not, unless it has moved, in Europe should not be making demands or even taking part. I auppose it's because most Israelis are from Europe. LL

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:40 pm

Have you forgotten, LL? Israel WON it in 1998, with a transgender...er, person....called Dana? Long before the bearded Austrian, er, woman?

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:49 pm

bb1 wrote:Have you forgotten, LL? Israel WON it in 1998, with a transgender...er, person....called Dana? Long before the bearded Austrian, er, woman?

I don't follow it or watch so I have no idea who has taken part in it. I prefer real music to catawauling but then I am old - and Viennese!! LL

**lily** Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:55 pm

I prefer old fashioned dignity to much of what is offered these days too.......

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:02 pm

It's hysterically funny, LL. The UK always loses now, because, apparently, all those new countries in the Balkans vote for each other, and votes depend on which government is speaking to which other government. Not because the entries are rubbish, perish the thought.....

Some of the entries are beyond parody, so I really don't know why Israel is getting so precious. It was won by a Finnish heavy metal band ten years ago:

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 020510Lordi

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 020510Lordi

and the Baboushkas would probably have won a couple of years ago if there hadn't been a row about something or other going on with Russia.

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 60676_img650x420_img650x420_crop

Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens - Page 4 60676_img650x420_img650x420_crop

So no, no sympathies with anyone that gets their panties in a bunch about Eurovision.

I actually think they should bring back Jeux sans Frontiers (without Stuart Hall, obviously), so all the squabbling European nations could whack Hell out of each other with giant foam rubber mallets, it would do the world of good.

**lily** Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:09 pm

Oh dear.... Shocked

**Lamplighter** Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:15 pm

lily wrote:I prefer old fashioned dignity to much of what is offered these days too.......

Especially for you, dear lily, dignity and .... Andre Rieu. In case it doesn't work, here's the link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhZ1yBzhBGc LL hug

**bb1** Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:06 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-must-end-its-50year-occupation-of-palestine-the-white-house-says-10129448.html

Israel must end its 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories, Barack Obama’s White House has said.

In a speech on Monday, the White House chief of staff Denis McDonough called into question the Israeli government’s commitment to finding a peaceful solution to the Middle East conflict.

“Israel cannot maintain military control of another people indefinitely,” he told a meeting of liberal American pro-Israel lobbyists, J-Street. “An occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end.” ....more at link.

I can't see that going down very well in Tel Aviv.

**lily** Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Thank you so much, LL. Every day I have to get my dose of classical music in between my rock..... hug

**bb1** Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:48 pm

Ancient beer kegs unearthed in Israel: 5,000-year-old Egyptian stone vessels contained fruit-flavoured brew
Fragments from ceramic basins were pulled from 17 pits in Tel Aviv, Israel
Basins were used 5,000 years ago to make fruity beer, which was a staple
Beer was made from part baked barley and water, with added fruits
Finds are first to prove an Egyptian occupation in Tel Aviv 5,000 years ago

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3016898/Ancient-Egyptian-beer-making-vessels-discovered-Israel.html#ixzz3VrvIzdrz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sounds like Egypt has first dibs on Israel; let's hope the land-stealers make arrangements to turn the territory over to its original owners ASAP.

**bb1** Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:05 am

Iran nuclear talks, Fox version:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/02/one-foot-out-door-iran-talks-enter-double-overtime-white-house-repeats-walk/

One foot out the door? Iran talks enter double overtime, White House repeats ‘walk away’ threat

Negotiators from the U.S. and five other world powers resumed talks with Iran over the future of its nuclear program in Switzerland Thursday after an all-night session.

Wednesday's discussion broke up shortly before 6 a.m. Thursday local time (midnight Eastern Time), according to a tweet from State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf, and resumed over four-and-a-half hours later.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has already postponed his planned departure twice from an original March 31 deadline, even as other foreign ministers have begun to sit negotiations out. His Iranian counterpart, Javad Zarif, made another optimistic statement to reporters Thursday, saying that both sides had made "significant progress" before adding that there is not yet a "final result."

Asked if reaching agreement on the framework of a permanent deal would be possible Thursday, Iranian nuclear chief Ali Akbar Salehi said "the sunrise is just ahead."

On Wednesday Harf said that Kerry would "remain in Lausanne until at least Thursday morning to continue the negotiations", adding "we continue to make progress, but have not reached a political understanding."....more at link.

Same talks, Iran version:

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/04/02/404347/Significant-progress-made-in-Ntalks-Iran

Significant progress made in N-talks, no results yet: Iran

ranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif says Iran and the P5+1 have made “significant progress” in their latest negotiations over the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program, Press TV reports.

The top Iranian diplomat stressed, however, that “no final result” has yet been achieved, and differences remain both between Iran and the P5+1 and among the six major world powers themselves.

“We have made significant progress, we don’t have any final result yet,” Zarif said.

“The P5+1 and EU are six countries and a big regional organization that have different interests and viewpoints, it is difficult, on the one hand negotiating with them, and on the other, the countries themselves, reaching coordination, so I believe if talks reach a conclusion and an agreement is made, which must be based on international law and must be drafted by the end of June, [it] is a significant and unprecedented act, maybe in recent history,” he said.

“But we still are not there. I need to stress that difference of opinion exists both between Iran and the 5+1 and between the 5+1 itself not just on this issue, but on all issues,” Zarif said.
While delegations from Iran and the P5+1 have remained in the Swiss city of Lausanne over prospects of imminent mutual understanding between the two sides, marathon negotiations, which lasted several hours overnight Wednesday and into early Thursday, have not yet resumed today.

More at link.

**bb1** Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:22 am

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-01/us-defense-secretary-we-might-bomb-iran-even-if-peace-agreement-signed

U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter said that a deal with Iran wouldn’t necessarily prevent war.

Military.com reports:

The U.S. will reserve the right to use military force to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon even if a deal is reached Iran’s nuclear program, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said Tuesday.

“The military option certainly will remain on the table,” Carter said as negotiators in Lausanne, Switzerland, struggled to reach an agreement ahead of a March 31 deadline.

“One of my jobs is to make sure all options are on the table,’ Carter said in remarks at Syracuse University and earlier on NBC’s “Today” program.

We thought that Iran getting nuclear weapons was the main reason we were thinking of bombing them. So if a peace deal is signed with the U.S., why are we still talking about bombing them?

What's going on?

In reality, top American and Israeli military and intelligence officials say that Iran poses no danger.

But the hawks have desperately been trying to stir up war with Iran for decades, as part of a 65-year program of regime change all over the world carried out by the U.S.

And the U.S. has inserted itself smack dab in the middle of a religious war ... and is backing the most violent side. And see this.

The American people want peace, but the military-industrial complex wants war.

Iraq, Libya and other nations all tried to work with the US - and look where that got them.

**lily** Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:23 pm

I once read a very interesting piece comparing various countries in the world with the stages of man.

The US being the adolescent.

In this case it would appear to be a troubled rebellious teen..... Heaven help the world then......

**bb1** Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:29 pm

I wish Washington would stop this damned meddling, Lily. I'm old enough to remember a time when investment, etc., from America, was GOOD. Now, it means, Do as we say, or we'll concoct some excuse to regime-change you and bomb you, by proxy or ourselves.

Not one country Washington has meddled in since the start of the millenium is better off for it; they are all now in ruins, with hundreds of thousands dead, millions of refugees, infrastructures blow to bits, etc.

IMO, if more ordinary Americans saw all this as the rest of the world does, sees how their country's name has been dragged down, they'd hang the Washington cabal from the nearest lamppost.

Please note, I am differentiating between Washington and normal, decent American folk.

**lily** Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:13 pm

I know you differentiate, Bonny, and have never thought otherwise. hug

Have never forgotten when George H.W. Bush was president and he stated on TV that there would be a New World Order. He never qualified what that would be......

**bb1** Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Well, it's pretty obvious they're not going to get their New World Order, the peasants are being too revolting. And they can't bomb the entire world, sooner or later someone will bomb back.

I do wonder if Washington is aware that Iran has the internet? Because those remarks haven't gone down at all well...

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/04/02/404385/Iran-to-respond-decisively-to-any-threat

Iran vows ‘decisive’ response to any threat

Iran’s Minister of Defense Brigadier General Hossein Dehqan

The Iranian defense minister has lashed out at his US counterpart for threatening military action against Iran amid diplomatic efforts to reach a deal on Tehran’s nuclear issue, saying the Islamic Republic will respond “decisively” to any threat.

Brigadier General Hossein Dehqan said Thursday that the recent comments by US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter are aimed at undermining the ongoing negotiations between Iran and the P5+1 states on Tehran’s nuclear program.

Carter said Tuesday that using military force against Iran will be an option if Tehran and the six countries – Russia, China, France, Britain, the US and Germany – fail to sign an agreement on Iran’s nuclear file.

US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter AFP

“This of course will have no effect on Iran’s documented, logical and fair positions on the nuclear issue,” Dehqan said, adding that the comments are aimed at creating media hype to influence the “logical climate” of the ongoing nuclear talks between Iran and the world powers.

“Such void remarks, always repeated by some US officials, are a sign of their frustration and have no value,” Dehqan added.

The Iranian defense minister said Tehran is determined to counter any hostile move from the aggressors, adding that the Islamic Republic would “decisively respond on the battlefield.”

The US defense secretary has clearly become forgetful of Washington’s past and recent defeats in the Middle East and the world, said Dehqan, adding that Carter “seems to be developing Alzheimer’s disease.”

Carter’s warmongering rhetoric comes as marathon negotiations are still underway in the Swiss city of Lausanne between representatives of Iran and the P5+1.

The two sides now face a July 1 deadline to conclude a final comprehensive deal over Iran’s nuclear program.

Is there anything at all about the Iranian minister of defence that suggests he is going to take kindly to being threatened? He looks genuinely scarey. Shocked

**bb1** Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:06 pm

http://news.sky.com/story/1457718/iran-nuclear-talks-agreement-on-framework

Iran Nuclear Talks: 'Agreement On Framework'
18:32, UK, Thursday 02 April 2015

Iran and six world powers have agreed on the framework of a deal to curb Iran's nuclear programme, negotiators indicated.

The apparent breakthrough came after negotiators twice extended talks past a 31 March deadline to reach an outline for a deal.

"Today we have taken a decisive step," European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said from Lausanne, Switzerland, on Thursday.

"We have reached a solution on key parameters of a joint comprehensive plan of action."

Western powers have been attempting to stop Iran from developing the capacity to build a nuclear weapon, in exchange for easing international sanctions that are crippling its economy.

Iran Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said under the future deal, the EU and United States would cease to implement nuclear-related sanctions on Tehran.

Ms Mogherini said negotiators would immediately begin drafting a final agreement.

US Secretary of State John Kerry tweeted there was a deal "to resolve major issues on nuclear program. Back to work soon on a final deal."

More follows...

**Lamplighter** Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:31 am

BBC By Yolande Knell BBC News, Bethlehem

The defence ministry has been told to look into an alternative route that is less disruptive

Palestinians are celebrating after Israel's Supreme Court rejected a plan to route the West Bank barrier through a beauty spot near Bethlehem.

A long-running legal campaign against the proposal had drawn the attention of Pope Francis.

The Israeli government wanted to build a section of its separation barrier between church properties in the scenic Cremisan Valley.

Fifty-eight Christian families would have been cut off from their land.

"This is a victory for everyone," the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fuad Twal said at a news conference. He suggested the announcement had special significance in the Holy Land ahead of Easter.

"I am celebrating the resurrection before the Calvary [Good Friday] tomorrow," commented local priest, Father Ibrahim Shomali, who led weekly prayers under olive trees in the valley.

"We have been suffering for nine years because we feared we'd lose our land. It wasn't easy to get this decision so we thank God."

The Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fuad Twal said it was a "victory for everyone"

Construction of the barrier began in 2002, during the second Palestinian intifada or uprising, following a wave of suicide bombings.

Israel said it was an essential security measure to prevent attacks.

However, Palestinians see it largely as a land grab because much of it was built inside the occupied West Bank.

Jewish settlements and additional land have been left on the Israeli side.

Settlements are seen as illegal under international law, although Israel disagrees.

In the Cremisan Valley, Israel's defence ministry argued it was seeking added protection for the settlements of Har Gilo and Gilo. Israelis view these as Jewish neighbourhoods of Jerusalem.

The barrier would have cut between a 19th Century monastery and winery run by Salesian monks - putting them on the Jerusalem side - and a neighbouring convent and primary school run by nuns.

The Israeli authorities had said there would be access between the sites and for Palestinians trying to reach their land through gates operated by soldiers.

Locals grow olives and fruits in the green, terraced valley and visit it for recreational purposes such as hiking and barbecues.

When Pope Francis visited the Holy Land last year he met some of the Palestinian families involved in the legal case and promised to follow up on it.

The Israeli court has now told the defence ministry to look into an alternative route for the barrier that is less disruptive for the community.

It said the two church sites should remain connected on the Palestinian side of the barrier.

In January, the High Court halted proceedings to build the separation barrier in Battir, also in the Bethlehem district.

The village had been recognised as a UNESCO World Heritage Site last year because of its ancient agricultural terraces and irrigation system.

However Israel's separation barrier has been constructed around the village of al-Walaja, which lies between the Cremisan Valley and Battir.

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Netanyahu row with Obama administration deepens