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Re-interment of King Richard III

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Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Empty Re: Re-interment of King Richard III

Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 am

I take it the Yorkies will be claiming Prince Andrew when he pops his clogs?
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:47 am

bb1 wrote:I take it the Yorkies will be claiming Prince Andrew when he pops his clogs?
I would think not as he has no connection with York other than as its' Duke. It's not like it was in the past, the titles are mainly honorary, within the gift of the sovereign and large tracts of land no longer go with the title. Kids of the monarch usually get a title, I would assume Andrew got York as his grandpa, George V1, was Duke of York before he became king. Also, as was the case of the present Duke of Gloucester, the title can now pass to the kids. It's all a bit of a mishmash! LL
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:54 am

Ah, but Yorkie reasoning seems to be that if your family ever had the word York in its name, they get first dibs on you. And he's bound to have played golf near York, or flown his helicopter over York at some point. rofl
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:17 pm

I've been looking at pics of York Minster, LL, trying to work out why it does little for me, and I think it's because it's just TOO big. It sort of looms over everything, and it's so massive, it's rather impersonal? It's not really on a human scale, unlike Leicester Cathedral?
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:26 pm

Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 2709B15200000578-3014449-Final_resting_place_The_completed_stone_tomb_pictured_of_Richard-m-15_1427453386930

Final resting place: The completed stone tomb (pictured) of Richard III is to go on public display after being lowered in to position

Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 2709B11000000578-3014449-image-a-13_1427453351663

The 2.3-ton tombstone, which features a Christian cross carved on the top, was lifted into place overnight at Leicester Cathedral

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3014449/Here-long-lies-Richard-III-Two-ton-tombstone-lowered-king-s-final-resting-place-Leicester-Cathedral.html#ixzz3VaXVJWJT
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:36 pm

bb1 wrote:I've been looking at pics of York Minster, LL, trying to work out why it does little for me, and I think it's because it's just TOO big. It sort of looms over everything, and it's so massive, it's rather impersonal? It's not really on a human scale, unlike Leicester Cathedral?
It's about 30 years since I visited the Minster so I can't really comment, except that I felt that the 'proper' cathedral was quite small but what made it so large was the number of chapels etc that went all around it.   Alongside some of the beautiful cathedrals in Europe it comes over as bulky, cluttered and badly constructed.   In Vienna we have Stephansdom which is large but neat.  
Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Image001

And this is St Stephen's Basilica, Budapest.
Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 74128956.Owj8LLaE.StMathiasCathedralinBudapest
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:46 pm

Ah, now those are perfect illustrations of what I am muttering about, LL! They're rather lovely, and obviously places of worship, but they're on a human scale.

I didn't realise York Minster had had bits stuck on it over the centuries; I guess that is why it looks so, as you said, bulky? And sprawling?
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:50 pm

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Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Empty DOCUMENTARY RE THE PRINCES IN THE TOWER

Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:22 pm

Link for sabot.   LL    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzbrWua7678

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Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Empty THE DAUGHTER OF TIME

Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:58 pm

I have found a gem - now you can read 'The Daughter of Time' complete on this link for free and see what got me hooked and why this novel is considered a pivotal item in the Richard saga. LL

http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks09/0900271.txt
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:07 pm

Oh, superb, LL! I read it many, many years ago, and will enjoy reading it again. Speaking of books, Sharon Penman will have to add ANOTHER End Note to The Sunne In Splendour.

In the edition I have, she did a rather low-key, scholarly, second End Note after he was found, really just covering the reconstructed head and similar science.

She obviously didn't see this week's amazing events on the horizon. I hope she was in Leicester this week, her book does a wonderful job of making sense of it all.
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:11 pm

You are welcome, bonny, it was a stab in the dark! I hope it won't be too hard on your eyes, you could I suppose print it out. I'm going to see if any other Ricardian books are on Gutenberg. I hope to find 'We Speak no Treason' and The King's Grey Mare', both by Rosemary Hawley Jarman. I does 'ave me uses! LL rofl rofl
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:17 pm

I'll just increase the size, LL, that's an easy fix! smile
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:23 pm

bb1 wrote:I'll just increase the size, LL, that's an easy fix! smile
Good. No luck with Rosemary Hawley Jarman - not on Gutenberg. I hav e a couple more that I might be able to source. LL
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:29 pm

http://www.r3.org/on-line-library-text-essays/jeremy-potter-richard-iiis-historians-adverse-and-favourable-views/

The late Jeremy Potter was the former chairman of the Rlll Society and a very nice man. LL
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:42 pm

More never sought to publish this work, which was written for the private amusement of himself and his friends and published only after his death. He was known as an intellectual joker, and it seems that his character assassination of Richard is largely ironical, intended as a parody of history, a jest at the expense of historians like Polydore Vergil and the implausible tales which they retailed as historical facts. Here his most improbable statements are slyly qualified by phrases such as ‘some wise men think’, ‘they that thus deem’, ‘it is for truth reported’ and ‘as the fame runs’, evidently signaling that they are really no more than worthless tittle-tattle.

That wasn't the 16th century equivalent of Sauces Say, was it? That was then read as being statements of fact?
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:02 pm

That wasn't the 16th century equivalent of Sauces Say, was it? That was then read as being statements of fact?
You have to learn to think like a 16th century person, who can read, probably lower nobility upwards.  Poor people were illiterate, they believed what they were told, usually in church sermons.  This was Thomas More, a 'pious' man, a friend of the King, well respected at court, why would he lie or distort the truth?   The vast Tudor propoganda machine had no rivals, there was no RT, CNN, AJ or BBC to give alternative versions; the king was, after all, a consecrated ruler ordained to rule by God and who dares to question him?    No courtier, prelate, mayor etc would dare to query the 'Party' line, they knew what the punishment would be.   Think back 500 years, alongside us these people were naive.   No Free Speech - look at what happened to Thomas More when he dared to challenge his friend, the King.   LL


Last edited by Lamplighter on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:13 pm

No Free Speech - look at what happened to Thomas More when he dared to challenge his friend, the King.

Ever since I found out about his fondness for heretic-incineration, I confess, I have rather felt it served More right, LL.
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:17 pm

Buck set out to refute one by one the accusations made against Richard, including his alleged deformity. He listed Richard’s virtues and good works but was not blind to his faults: a misguided leniency towards traitors (he should have beheaded Morton and Stanley along with Hastings) underrating his enemies and rashness on the battlefield.

That's a refreshingly robust approach to the matter. biggrin
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:18 pm

David Hipshon, whose book on the controversial Yorkist monarch is out now, has a new perspective on the reason for Richard’s death at the battle of Bosworth in 1485

This article was first published online in April 2010

http://www.historyextra.com/feature/treachery-what-really-brought-down-richard-iii

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Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Empty CROSBY HALL/PLACE - RICHARD'S LONDON HOME

Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:24 pm

The Great Hall is the only surviving part of the medieval mansion of Crosby Hall, Bishopsgate, in the City of London, which was built in 1466 by the wool merchant, Sir John Crosby. By 1483, the Duke of Gloucester, later Richard III, had acquired the Bishopsgate property from the original owner's widow.   The Hall was used as one of his London homes.   It was used as the setting for a scene in William Shakespeare's Richard III.

Following a fire in 1672 only the Great Hall and Parlour wing of the mansion survived, it then became a Presbyterian Meeting House and then a warehouse with an inserted floor.

In 1910, the mediaeval structure was reprieved from threatened demolition and moved stone by stone to its present site in Chelsea. The neo-Tudor brick additions designed by Walter Godfrey were constructed around it. The move was paid for by the Bank of India, who had purchased the Bishopsgate site to build offices.

Notable residents at the original site

   Richard Duke of Gloucester 1483.
   Sir Thomas More 1523-4.
   William Roper, 1547.
   Sir Walter Raleigh 1601.

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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:36 pm

That's a beautiful building, LL, I'm glad it was saved.
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Post  Lamplighter Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:41 pm

bb1 wrote:No Free Speech - look at what happened to Thomas More when he dared to challenge his friend, the King.

Ever since I found out about his fondness for heretic-incineration, I confess, I have rather felt it served More right, LL.
I am not defending More, he was no different from the men of his time. Heretics were burned, traitors were hung, drawn and quartered if they were not noble, beheaded if they were. The time was brutal. LL
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Post  bb1 Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:24 pm

You know, even if Richard had bumped off every single person he is accused of bumping off, it would still be less than a tenth of one percent of the tens of thousands H8 alone killed.
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Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 Empty Richard III: Celebrations as tomb in Leicester cathedral is revealed

Post  Lamplighter Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:14 am

Re-interment of King Richard III - Page 12 9743571-large

The tomb of King Richard III was unveiled at Leicester Cathedral today, sparking another day of queues and celebrations.

Hundreds of people were invited to St Martin's to witness the revealing of the two-ton Swaledale fossil tombstone which encloses the king in his grave.

The congregation included city mayor Sir Peter Soulsby, Chief Constable Simon Cole and former X Factor winner Sam Bailey, who praised the choir's contribution to the occasion.

"I used to be in a choir and they totally outshone anything I've done," she said.

"The whole week has been great to be part of – it's been amazing for Leicester."

The service was the last of a series of three at the cathedral. They started on Sunday when Richard III's coffin was officially handed over to the care of the diocese after being taken around the county.

The royal reinterment took place yesterday.

Today, the focus was on scores of performers from Curve, who acted out a contemporary installation complete with drum and bass soundtrack, gunfire sound effects and a giant towering sculpture, which took centre stage on the alter.

"Today, we are joined by Curve as they lead us in a performance of dance, drama and scripture," said Bishop of Leicester the Right Rev Tim Stevens.

Six of the theatre's company had the honour of removing the ceremonial cloth that covered the tomb of Richard III. The cloth was wrapped up to resemble a swaddled baby and passed around the cathedral to represent birth and new life.

Two hundred of those at the service had been given invitations after entering a public ballot.

Ticket holder Dane Jones, 14, from Beaumont Leys, Leicester, said: "I though the performance was interesting and epitomised what Leicester is all about. It's what I would have expected.

"The performance was dramatic and brought together new and old."

James Mortimer, 38, from Hertfordshire, said: "I thought it was great.

"The dance music was a bit much, though. I'm more of a traditional kind of person.

"But it's a beautiful cathedral and Leicester should be proud."

Gary Short, 45, from Milton Keynes, said: "To hear drum and bass music inside a cathedral is a bit surreal, but I can see what they were trying to do – mix contemporary with history."

Once the service had finished, the congregation was given the opportunity to view the newly created tomb before the cathedral opened to the public later in the day.

Helen Muckley, 49, had travelled from Tipton, in the West Midlands, with her 22-year-old daughter, Beth.

They were two of the first people past the newly unveiled tomb.

"It's lovely," said Helen. "Quite fitting.

"We got invites through the ballot and it's amazing to be here."

April Moss, 39, and husband Kevin, 54, from Quorn, were also at the service of reveal and filed past the tomb with the crowd.

"It's amazing", said April. "We've seen the artist's impressions but seeing it for real is something special."

Cathedral leaders are now looking to the future and the changes a buried king will make to St Martin's.

The Rev Pete Hobson, acting canon missioner at Leicester Cathedral, who is part of the team which has organised the reinterment, said: "This changes the game for us at the cathedral, and for Leicester, forever, so we will see what happens over the next few days, months and years."

Dean of Leicester the Very Rev David Monteith said: "Once you put a monarch in your cathedral you start thinking about yourself differently.

"When I looked out and saw the crowds, I almost sensed people's chests puffed out – they are genuinely proud – and there's a feeling of achievement here in the city."

Tonight, thousands gathered for the finale of the reinterment week – an illumination ceremony made up of hundreds of candles dotted around St Martin's and Jubilee Square, as well as a fireworks display from the roof of the cathedral.

Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Richard-III-Celebrations-tomb-Leicester-cathedral/story-26244295-detail/story.html#ixzz3Vf7JtQtp
Follow us: @Leicester_Merc on Twitter | leicestermercury on Facebook

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