SYRIA: Nerve Gas Attack

Sabot.  There are basically 2 groups,
for the sake of simplicity.  The Sunnis and the Shia are the 2 largest groups with about 80% and 20% of muslims accordingly.

For instance, Saudi Arabian royalty are Sunni and a large amount of their people are.  They are in Africa, the UAE, Indonesia etc. Shia include Iran, Pakistan, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Turkey and so on.  

Not unlike protestants and catholics as you said earlier.  

The folk with the oil in Saudi Arabia, who tend to be favorable to the west, are Sunni and the folk who have had a leader hell bound on Israel's destruction are Shia.

Have just seen your post, Bonny.  FFS. is that the Wail stirring things up?  I don't think the US has snubbed the UK and I too would rather be snubbed than take part in a blitz, thank you very much.

PS. Have not read the whole article but after only the first few lines....... of course he didn't mention the UK. He doesn't want the US to remember why the UK didn't wish to proceed....

bb1 wrote:Well, they're less likely to win if we don't help them set up religious dictatorships.....

It is already a foregone conclusion, Bonny. More or less done and dusted. I don't know much about the various Sects, but then I don't have to. They know what they want for the glory of their God, majority being all. Kill off the dissenters.
And I don't care anyway. It is all a bit too medaevil for me. Like they are all still living in the dark ages. But then that is what Islam is. And we are going to have to suck it up.

And all the cheese-eating surrender monkeys jokes appear to have been forgotten too, Lily.

Of course, Bonny.  

lily wrote:Sabot.  There are basically 2 groups,
for the sake of simplicity.  The Sunnis and the Shia are the 2 largest groups with about 80% and 20% of muslims accordingly.

For instance, Saudi Arabian royalty are Sunni and a large amount of their people are.  They are in Africa, the UAE, Indonesia etc. Shia include Iran, Pakistan, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Turkey and so on.  

Not unlike protestants and catholics as you said earlier.  

The folk with the oil in Saudi Arabia, who tend to be favorable to the west, are Sunni and the folk who have had a leader hell bound on Israel's destruction are Shia.

Have just seen your post, Bonny.  FFS. is that the Wail stirring things up?  I don't think the US has snubbed the UK and I too would rather be snubbed than take part in a blitz, thank you very much.

PS.  Have not read the whole article but after only the first few lines....... of course he didn't mention the UK.  He doesn't want the US to remember why the UK didn't wish to proceed....

You think I don't know this, Lily? I am just trying not to be too much of a smart arse, so I pretend not to know exactly who these people are. And I probably wouldn't give you tuppence happeny for any of them anyway. In the end there isn't much to choose. All prejudice is bad, but it is a fact of life, even for me. Much as I try.
I do know that their Sects are very important to them. But one has to wonder for whose God. And whatever they say, we all have the same God, even they know that. Their God is my God. There is no difference. The fact that I personally have some passing doubts about life hereafter is neither here not there. That is only my problem.
The real point is that they are killing their children for some religious may be that makes no sense to anyone. But their God won't punish them because there is no such God. So they fight for a cause that doesn't even exist.
What a waste of F**king time and life.

They do believe in hell, Sabot.    On the off chance that you did not know I will include a link.

http://islam.about.com/od/heavenhell/tp/Hell-In-The-Quran.htm

Hell in the Quran

How is hell (jahannam) described?

By Huda, About.com Guide

All Muslims hope to spend their eternal lives in Heaven (jannah), but many will fall short. Disbelievers and evil-doers face another destination: Hell-Fire (jahannam). The Quran contains many warnings and descriptions of the severity of this eternal punishment.

Cursed By Allah

The worst punishment for disbelievers and wrongdoers will be the realization that they have failed. They did not heed Allah's guidance and warnings, and thus have earned His wrath. The Arabic word, jahannam, means "a dark storm" or "a stern expression." Both exemplify the seriousness of this punishment. The Quran says:
"Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind. They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will they receive respite" (2:161-162).
"They are (men) whom Allah hath cursed: And those whom Allah Hath cursed, thou wilt find, have no one to help" (4:52).

Blazing Fire
The blazing fire of Hell is fueled "with men and stones."
"...fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith" (2:24).
"...Enough is Hell for a burning fire. Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise" (4:55-56).
"But he whose balance (of good deeds) is found to be light, will have his home in a (bottomless) Pit. And what will explain to you what this is? A Fire blazing fiercely!" (101:8-11).

Boiling Water

Normally water brings relief and puts out a fire. The water in Hell, though, is different.
"...Those who deny (their Lord), for them will be cut out a garment of Fire. Over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back, and (it will be said), "Taste the Penalty of Burning!" (22:19-22).
"In front of such a one is Hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water" (14:16).
"In its midst and in the midst of boiling hot water will they wander round!" (55:44).

Tree of Zaqqum

Whereas the rewards of Heaven include plentiful, fresh fruits and milk, the inhabitants of Hell will eat from the Tree of Zaqqum. The Quran describes it:
"Is that the better entertainment or the Tree of Zaqqum? For We have truly made it (as) a trial for the wrong-doers. It is a tree that springs out of the bottom of Hell-Fire. The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of devils. Truly they will eat thereof and fill their bellies therewith. Then on top of that they will be given a mixture made of boiling water. Then shall their return be to the (Blazing) Fire" (37:62-68).
"Verily, the tree of deadly fruit will be the food of the sinful. Like molten lead will it boil in the belly, like the boiling of burning despair" (44:43-46).

No Second Chances

When they are dragged into Hell-Fire, many people will instantly regret the choices they made in their lives, and will beg for another chance. The Quran warns such people:
"And those who followed would say: 'If only We had one more chance...' Thus will Allah show them (the fruits of) their deeds as (nothing but) regrets. Nor will there be a way for them out of the Fire" (2:167)
"As to those who reject Faith: if they had everything on earth, and twice repeated, to give as ransom for the penalty of the Day of Judgment, it would never be accepted of them. Theirs would be a grievous penalty. Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out. Their penalty will be one that endures" (5:36-37).

Thank You, Lily, I really needed to know that. If ever.
What is good for them has to be good for me. Presuming that I believe it. Which I don't. But there you go.
I suspect that I might be interested in their feelings, but only in an academic sort of way, as I might study Christian theology, which would be no more important to me than how they feel. Or how I feel about Judaism. It is all the same God in the end. If you actually believe that there is a God in the first place. It is of no distress to me that I don't believe. My God will forgive me for that because that is my God. If there is a God.
Jesus Christ was a Jew, and probably an Arab a such, so what am I supposed to think of that? This amazing man who apparently died for me was all things to all of these stupid people. And not one of them is actually listening to what he said. And so I despair.

Well, while Jews do not acknowledge J.C., the Moslems acknowledge him as a prophet of theirs.   They do not regard him as God.  Which is also my belief.  I do believe in God though which, as you correctly say, is the same God as the Jews' and Moslems' God.

lily wrote:Well, while Jews do not acknowledge J.C., the Moslems acknowledge him as a prophet of theirs.   They do not regard him as God.  Which is also my belief.  I do believe in God though which, as you correctly say, is the same God as the Jews' and Moslems' God.

I don't think that Jesus ever said that he was God. Just the son of God. As I am a daughter of God. If I believed in God. But then I am a daughter of all things, as Jesus was the son of all things. It is just a conception. There really isn't anything peculiar about it. Jesus didn't think that there was anything amazing about himself, as I don't think that there is anything amazing about me.
We are all the children of Earth's God. This bloody great incredible planet that has miracles for every day that we wake. If you want to see a God then just wake up every morning and see what we have. That is God. And that is what Jesus meant.

I am afraid that the White House has gone down even further in my estimation of them over this matter by the cynical speed with which the cheese-eating surrender monkeys have been instantly transformed into our oldest allies - which was, of course, against Perfidious Albion.

What happens if Omaba launches missiles before the UN report is released (and we've been here before) and the UN then produces evidence that kitchen-sink chemicals were used?

Well worth watching.

Thank you for posting that Bonny. It reminded me.......


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/10/obama-nobel-peace-prize-norway

As I was searching for the date that Obama was awarded his Nobel Peace Prize (just under one year into his presidency) I came across current articles.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/obama-didnt-deserve-the-nobel-peace-prize-then-and-even-less-now-1074873.html

(a note - he can do this without the vote of Congress so long as there are certain conditions met as justification).

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/time-choosing/2013/aug/30/obamas-shameless-hypocrisy-executive-war-powers/

And from his Russian counterpart

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=108524&frid=22&seccatid=45&cid=22&fromval=1

Putin: As Nobel Prize Winner, Obama Must Think of Victims before Attacking Syria
Local Editor
Russian President Vladimir Putin called his American counterpart Barack Obama on Saturday not to forget that he holds a Nobel Peace Prize.

"I would like to say to Obama as a Nobel Peace Prize winner: before you use force in Syria, you should think of the victims that will fall," Putin said, pointing out that "Russia calls for deep thinking before making a decision of operation in Syria."

"Common sense notes that with the advancement of the Syrian government forces .. giving the trump card to those who continuously call for military intervention is nonsense and does not correspond with any logic, especially on the day of the UN inspectors arrival," the Russian President added.

"I'm sure it was just a provocation by those who seek to drag other countries into the Syrian conflict and want to gain support from the international parties, first and foremost, the United States of course," he stated.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/the-growing-campaign-to-r_b_3007189.html

He seems to be hell-bent on blundering into disaster, Lily. Test the case - he gives orders to bomb...something, because he thinks something must be done. As usual, it will go wrong, and a hospital or the Chinese Embassy is hit.

Then it turns out that yes, it was the Al Quaeda-backed rebels all along behind the gas attack, and Obama has just bombed a semi-friendly government, or at least one on the same side when it comes to Islamic terrorists.

Where does that leave the US as any kind of power? Besides a laughing stock and dead in the water. And anyone who thinks the 'rebels' wouldn't sacrifice their own people to provoke a reaction like this is too naive to run anything more difficult than the parish council.

He's going to attack Assad when Assad is beating Al Quaeda? Hello? Anyone thinking there is something wrong here?

As for the 'evidence' which appears to consist of twitter and YouTube - words fail me. I don't know, maybe Obama wants to go down in history as the first US president to be charged with treason for aiding his country's enemies?

I've been reading the comments in the US media, Lily, and am mightily relieved to see so many people saying the same thing as the UK comments did before Thursday. I hope he will listen to public opinion.

I saw this in the Huff Post comments, Lily:

The founding fathers somehow managed not to learn the lessons of British parliamentary government before writing the Constitution. They tried to improve on it by reference to classical democracy, meaning Athenian Democracy and the Roman Republic. They bequeathed us a system which is unmistakably inferior to a parliamentary system.

Yes, I hadn't realised that both the US and France could go to war on the say-so of one man, providing they didn't do it for too long.

That might have been OK in the days of cannons and horses, but not now. From what I've seen reading round, if it was put to the vote, the result would be the same as in Parliament - NO.

'Bombing Syria will make civil war worse': Army chiefs praise Parliament for voting against military strikes

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2407831/Bombing-Syria-make-civil-war-worse-Army-chiefs-praise-Parliament-voting-military-strikes.html#ixzz2dZSBugkb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

That's worth reading too. I suspect they have a better idea of what they are talking about than someone who has been getting his information from twitter and YouTube.

Oh, more people don't want it than do, Bonny.

Maybe Obama is looking for his 'legacy'?  Very sadly, he has done nothing of much good up until now.  He sure has spent more money than his predecessors combined.  Even his vaunted 'Obamacare" is not as was originally advertized and is not wanted by so many of the people.  Is this it?  The Emperor deciding to inflict this damage on another country, without the will of the people?

Could this possibly lead to the opening salvos of WWIII?

Bonny, just read your post.

Truthfully, Obama was not an experienced politician before being miraculously made president. He was a community organizer and then taught constitutional law before becoming a state senator.in 2004.

He never served in the military etc.

Now we are witnessing the consequences of that?

The Emperor deciding to inflict this damage on another country, without the will of the people?

I don't think it's anything as planned as that, Lily. It's more like utter stupidity because something must be done.

Some UK commentators are seeing the manicured hands of SamCam in all this - she visited a refugee camp a while back, and decided something must be done. Instead of taking the traditional PMs wife route of expressing sympathy and raising money for charity, some suspect she's meddled in foreign, military policy instead.

I do hope she hasn't been on the phone to Mrs President wailing that something must be done because of what's on the Official Rebel Facebook Page.

It's so braindead and amateur at every level, nothing would surprise me. I did notice that even hawkish heavyweights like Rumsfeld are NOT joining in the call to bomb Damascus, so maybe people with some common sense will take Obama to one side and tell him to forget the idea? That a climbdown now, however embarrassing, is better than utter humiliation further down the road?

Not forgetting the citizens of Damascus he is threatening to blow to Kingdom come?

Kerry called Bashar Assad a "thug" and a "murderer" who must not be allowed to escape retribution for the attack.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/31/un-experts-pull-out-syria-as-obama-edges-toward-limited-strike/#ixzz2dZcgObMZ

Proof that the internet doesn't do 'forgetting'----



That wasn't what Kerry was saying in 2009.

Unbelievable.  

It's more like utter stupidity because something must be done.

Usually it is men who are compelled to action while women want to talk it through and through until they get comfortable?

What a rush to action this is! Can't help but feel that unintended consequences will happen to make it all go out of control at a high rate of speed..........

I wish he would listen to what Putin's saying, Lily - this seems to be a repeat of the US ignoring Russian intelligence about the Boston Bombers. Putin and Assad are flatly denying it was the Syrian government who caused the gas attack - not weaselling around with vague phrases, flatly denying.

IMO, if Obama goes ahead with an attack on Damascus, he is on course for disaster and humiliation.

Oh, Obama is about to make a speech in the Rose Garden to 'explain' things. This should be good.

No he's not, he's now nearly half an hour late.

They may be having teleprompter trouble....... 

The bloody moron is going to launch. But he isn't going to say when.

Oh, he's going to go to Congress....thank God, someone must have talked some sense into him.

Waffle, waffle, hot air - he still hasn't provided anything resembling 'evidence'. The citizens of Damascus can breath a bit easier tonight, at least the US isn't going to blow them up. Yet.