Re: The Eurozone Thread

[bb1]

It appears that some deal has been cooked up:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16097089

and whatever it is, the UK isn't going to be handing over any more money.

You and LL are both in Europe, Sabot, you may not realise the depth of anger this is is causing in the UK? Most Brits would be perfectly happy to leave the EU right this minute and rebuild ties with the Commonwealth, maybe even join NAFTA.

[Pedro Silva]

I agree with bb1:

"The EU and its stupid directives about food have done untold damage to many industries, especially fishing, in the UK."

The same can be applied in Portugal, about agriculture products, fishing also.

I agree also with Sabot about the incentive.

[Lamplighter]

Be fair, LL, who could resist a headline like

GERMAN CHANCELLOR THREATENS WAR IN EUROPE

I could, but then I lived through WW2, I lost family in the camps, I want no more wars in Europe or anywhere else for that matter. I want to pop my clogs, whenever that happens, secure in the knowledge that my kids and their kids will be safe. And when the media puts up claptrap like that banner, I despair for my family! No wonder Europe is in a mess! Lamplighter

[bb1]

I knew Portugal had had a huge fishing industry, plus agriculture, Pedro, and I suspected it too would have been wrecked by the EU.

It is simply madness for the EU to destroy these industries, and force member states to import food. It flies in the face of concern for the environment, economic sense, everything.

[bb1]

No-one intended to offend you, LL

It was an incredibly stupid thing for Merkel to say, whatever she intended. She may well have finished off the EU, long term, with that remark. Whatever she meant, it comes over as Germany chucking its weight around yet again.

She's added to anti-EU feelings in the UK, which were running high, anyway.

[Sabot]

It appears that some deal has been cooked up:

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16097089

and whatever it is, the UK isn't going to be handing over any more money.

You and LL are both in Europe, Sabot, you may not realise the depth of anger this is is causing in the UK? Most Brits would be perfectly happy to leave the EU right this minute and rebuild ties with the Commonwealth, maybe even join NAFTA.

As I said, Bonny, I doubt that Britain should have joined in the first place. I didn't vote in The Referendum because I simply didn't understand what they were on about, and I'm no idiot. Personally I think it was deliberately confusing while hyped as a good idea because they knew that if it was understandable then no one would vote to join.

I am not ashamed of not voting. I just couldn't bring myself to vote NO. Nor was I in a position to influence anyone else as I didn't understand it myself. Like most people, I do suspect.

[Pedro Silva]

bb1, we are in agreement, that´s exactly what I think.

Sabot, we are also in agreement about the incentive, that´s what I wrote also at my comment above.

[Sabot]

PS. I seem to remember that Britain didn't treat The Commonwealth all that well. They dumped a lot of Commonwealth imports in favour of The EU.

[bb1]

I seem to recall that I voted 'yes', Sabot, as European co-operation, etc., seemed like a good idea at the time. Still does, actually.

But what it has turned into, is not what people voted for. They didn't vote to have local industry destroyed, or the thread of the euro hanging over their heads, or to be continually forking out money to other developed European nations.

Seriously, who ever got out of debt by borrowing more money? It's ecomonic nonsense.

[Sabot]

No-one intended to offend you, LL

It was an incredibly stupid thing for Merkel to say, whatever she intended. She may well have finished off the EU, long term, with that remark. Whatever she meant, it comes over as Germany chucking its weight around yet again.

She's added to anti-EU feelings in the UK, which were running high, anyway.

I have long been saying that when Germany failed to beat us in the last two Wars they would then try to beat us economically. In this I am a bit British still. The Germans can't help themselves. They have to win and they don't much care how.

[Sabot]

I seem to recall that I voted 'yes', Sabot, as European co-operation, etc., seemed like a good idea at the time. Still does, actually.

But what it has turned into, is not what people voted for. They didn't vote to have local industry destroyed, or the thread of the euro hanging over their heads, or to be continually forking out money to other developed European nations.

Seriously, who ever got out of debt by borrowing more money? It's ecomonic nonsense.

Those extras were in the Small Print, Bonny. We weren't suppose to understand those.

[Lamplighter]

No-one intended to offend you, LL

It was an incredibly stupid thing for Merkel to say, whatever she intended. She may well have finished off the EU, long term, with that remark. Whatever she meant, it comes over as Germany chucking its weight around yet again.

She's added to anti-EU feelings in the UK, which were running high, anyway.

I know, bonny! That isn't what she said, bonny, she was referring to possible economic warfare which at present could break out anywhere in Europe. But because it was said by a German Chancellor the immediate reaction was WW3. As for Germany chucking its weight around again, how about Sarkozy and his lot? I'm not defending her, I think she could have put it more subtly, but she is right; the German people are getting sick and tired of bailing out countries that have not been fiscally sensible. The UK is lucky; they can, as we can here, walk way from the mess as neither you nor us are in the Euro. Here the entry application has gone back another 7 years as at today's date; we were supposed to go in at least 5 years ago, now our politicians are fighting shy of ever going in. Being a pragmatic people, they are standing well back and watching what happens. I understand a couple of the other recent entrants are already having second thoughts. Getting out is virtually impossible I am told, as it would require devaluation of the country's currency as a starter for 10. And I am happy with the UK status quo as far as the exchange rates are concerned! I can get a good rate for sterling which allows me to keep up my philanthropic work, as things here are cheaper so the money goes further. My state pension goes straight to the hospice that looked after my dad in his last years. Sorry, maybe I sound like I am being high and mighty over this, but really I do understand only too well what severe hardships the less well off people in the UK are going through. LL

[bb1]

Well, maybe they are going to have to think the unthinkable and scrap the single currency, and start again.


Getting out is virtually impossible I am told, as it would require devaluation of the country's currency as a starter for 10.

But surely if Portugal went back to the escudo, Greece to the drachma, Ireland to the punt, they would then be able to trade fairly; if the currency was trading at a realistic value - instead of the same value as France and Germany - then it would actually become MORE attractive over time.

Instead of sinking further and further into the mire - and dragging everyone else down with them, as is happening now?

[bb1]

As for Germany chucking its weight around again, how about Sarkozy and his lot?

I think, because of one or two historical issues, people aren't actually scared of France.....well, apart from the Gaddafi clan.

If you take a look at the mass market UK media, LL, that ill-chosen remark has done appalling damage to her cause in the UK.

[Sabot]

Can The Euros Zone or The EU expel people just for being broke? That might cause a War.

[bb1]

I have absolutely no idea, Sabot. Is there an economist in the house?

[Lamplighter]

I know many Germans are still bewailing the loss of the Deutschmark, likewise the Austrians and the Schilling, and the possible loss of the forint here is one reason why we are lagging well behind those who went in earlier.

As for Merkel's remark, there was, is and always will be extreme media anti-German rhetoric. After all, you only have to look at the tabloids every time Germany plays England in football, or for that matter any other sport. I heard her speech, in German, I did not need a translator - and as we know with the McCann case, much can be distorted in translation. Sorry if I appear to be bucking the trend here, but as you say bonny, I am in Europe, you are in Scotland, and 1,000 miles can distort many things. Anyway, I am now going to butt out of this conversation merely to ensure we don't have words, cos I lurves yer, lassie! LL

[Pedro Silva]

I agree with bb1:

"Getting out is virtually impossible I am told, as it would require devaluation of the country's currency as a starter for 10".

[bb1]

It isn't having words, LL - it just shows how differently this business is being seen

[Lamplighter]

It isn't having words, LL - it just shows how differently this business is being seen

I ken that, lassie! LL

[bb1]

Maybe we should have a sweepstake - in $$$$$ - about how long it is going to take this giant Ponzi scheme to come crashing down?

[Sabot]

The British Government are running a Ponzi Scheme with British Pensions. Have been doing since the word Go.

[bb1]

That's a good piece by Anna:

http://www.annaraccoon.com/politics/the-patchwork-quilt/

[Sabot]

I don't know about anyone else, but I enjoyed that discussion. Thank you all.

[bb1]

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