OSLO BOMBED, PEOPLE KILLED IN YOUTH CAMP ATTACK

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, LL.

Today's Terrorists are Tomorrow's Freedom Fighters.

Sabot wrote:
Sadly, I have to disagree with you, LL.

Today's Terrorists are Tomorrow's Freedom Fighters.

Freedom for what? Norway is one of the most liberal, free countries in Europe, probably in the world. He is a fascist, right-wing extremist, which in my book makes his no lover of freedomn. LL

ETA. The Norwegian police have revised the number of the dead on the island down to 68. Oslo dead rises up 1 to 8.

Lamplighter wrote:

Sabot wrote:
Sadly, I have to disagree with you, LL.

Today's Terrorists are Tomorrow's Freedom Fighters.

Freedom for what? Norway is one of the most liberal, free countries in Europe, probably in the world. He is a fascist, right-wing extremist, which in my book makes his no lover of freedomn. LL

ETA. The Norwegian police have revised the number of the dead on the island down to 68. Oslo dead rises up 1 to 8.

Just being cautious, LL I have heard it all before. I don't want him to gain one wit of sympathy or following by affording him a title.
Psychopath will do for me.

Sabot wrote:

Lamplighter wrote:

Sabot wrote:
Sadly, I have to disagree with you, LL.

Today's Terrorists are Tomorrow's Freedom Fighters.

Freedom for what? Norway is one of the most liberal, free countries in Europe, probably in the world. He is a fascist, right-wing extremist, which in my book makes his no lover of freedomn. LL

ETA. The Norwegian police have revised the number of the dead on the island down to 68. Oslo dead rises up 1 to 8.

Just being cautious, LL I have heard it all before. I don't want him to gain one wit of sympathy or following by affording him a title.
Psychopath will do for me.

Don't worry, dear sabot, the Norwegians remember the Nazis in WW2 and the killings etc of people by the fascists. He is obviously a fascist, he will get very short shrift there. There was a discussion early on TV where the subject of the extreme right-wing was discussed and the consensus was that they are a very small minority; the Norwegians have always been sort of centre-left, right wing politics are not readily accepted there. I know the Norwegian people, they are canny, shrewd and not easily pushed around. LL

Calling him a psychopath also absolves him of responsibility....he is a terrorist, plain and simple, and no better than Bin Laden and co.
I would not have broken my heart if a Norwegian SWAT had killed him, but they didn't.

There's a picture of Breivik in the police car on Sky now...he's gone to seed since his glory posing around on FB, he just looks like any fat nutjob you've ever seen, rather a long way from his pretentions to be some kind of Aryan superman.

Not exactly godlike, is he? And he is being called a 'mummy's boy' on Sky now...I suspect psychologists will discover that this has a great deal to do with his unresolved issues with his father.

I sometimes wonder if we know what a Fascist is anymore. The Germans were Fascists. The Russians before and after The Revolution were Fascists. The Portuguese were definitely Fascists, and still are in some quarters. Just what is this word that we bandy about so freely?
I suppose that I ought to Google it, but I somewhat doubt that the definition will be correct.
I mean, Bennett is a Fascist, but how would anyone define him?

Far-Right fanatic who thinks some skin colours and faiths are of greater value than others?

One crumb of comfort - the number of dead is less than was feared.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Norway-Anders-Behring-Breivik-Tells-Oslo-Court-He-Was-Not-Working-Alone-There-Are-Two-More-Cells/Article/201107416036733?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16036733_Norway%3A_Anders_Behring_Breivik_Tells_Oslo_Court_He_Was_Not_Working_Alone%2C_There_Are_Two_More_Cells

There now seem to have been 76 deaths.

According to Breivik:

In his first court appearance since his arrest on Friday, Anders Behring Breivik admitted he was responsible for Norway's worst atrocity since World War Two but pleaded not guilty.
In a statement he said he had carried out the attacks because he wanted to "save Norway and Western Europe from a Muslim takeover".
He accused the Labour party of "mass imports of Muslims" and said the objective behind the terror plot was to give a "sharp signal to the people".

He has failed utterly; tens of thousands of people are now gathering for a candle-lit vigil in Oslo.
If he has done anything, it is to destroy his own cause, because the Far Right is now going to be associated with cowards who gun down teenagers.

The term fascismo is derived from the Latin word fasces. The fasces, which consisted of a bundle of rods that were tied around an axe, was an ancient Roman symbol of the authority of the civic magistrate. They were carried by his lictors and could be used for corporal and capital punishment at his command. The word fascismo also relates to political organizations in Italy known as fasci, groups similar to guilds or syndicates.

The symbolism of the fasces suggested strength through unity: a single rod is easily broken, while the bundle is difficult to break. Similar symbols were developed by different fascist movements. For example the Falange symbol is a bunch of arrows joined together by a yoke.

Fascist as epithet

Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word, often referring to widely varying movements across the political spectrum. In political discourse, the term "fascist" is commonly used to denote authoritarian tendencies, but is often used as a pejorative epithet by adherents to both left-wing and right-wing politics to denigrate those with opposing viewpoints. George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'". Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times". "Fascist" is sometimes applied to post-war organisations and ways of thinking that academics more commonly term "neo-fascist".

Contrary to the common mainstream academic and popular use of the term, Communist states have sometimes been referred to as "fascist", typically as an epithet. Marxist interpretations of the term have, for example, been applied in relation to Cuba under Fidel Castro and Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh.[53] Herbert Matthews, of the New York Times asked "Should we now place Stalinist Russia in the same category as Hitlerite Germany? Should we say that she is Fascist?". J. Edgar Hoover wrote extensively of "Red Fascism". Chinese Marxists used the term to denounce the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet Split, and likewise, the Soviets used the term to identify Chinese Marxists.

Personally I prefer right or left-wing extremist, though any extremism is not acceptable, whichever way it leans. LL

I saw somewhere that the far right party in Norway, which is tiny, has distanced itself from him, and regretted he was ever a member. LL

Personally I prefer right or left-wing extremist, though any extremism is not acceptable, whichever way it leans. LL

Yes, it's a tricky one, isn't it - Orwell's interpretation as 'bully' is pretty near it. And it's not as if it makes much difference to the victims which particular 'ism' is meting out violence..
Good to see his former allies distancing themselves - is it too much to hope they understand that this is what extremism leads to?
Also interesting - news is just coming through that Breivik was on some kind of watch-list.
Good post from Tony:

http://thehoundingofthemccans.blogspot.com/?zx=bd7d5ff2f7285e1a

I Was Shaking My Head In Disbelief At The Extent People Will Go To To Kill Children. Then I Remembered Sean Hyland (Laffin Assasin, NobbyLobby/ veniviedivici on Twitter) Was Keen To Go To The Same Extent.

And still not a word of condemnation from Bennett; it isn't even being discussed....

So, Fascism is a word that can mean whatever you want it to mean if it's something that you personally don't agree with. Fundamentalism might be a better choice then. Extreme views in any case.

I don't personally have a problem with extreme views, so long as they don't try to inflict their views on me.

There are Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalists, and even Catholic fundamentalists, although The Christians do seem to have the edge since there are so many different offshoots of them. But I have never heard of Buddhist fundamentalists.This could be the way to go.

I suppose that I shall just have to learn better ways of expressing my displeasure with the likes of Bennett. Calling him a Fascist Fundamentalist just isn't good enough.
But then nor is nasty, twisted, ego driven sallop.

The worst thing, to me, about the best-known fundamentalists, is that they all come from the same root...the 'people of the book', I think, Christians, Jews and Muslims are known as?
Yes, there is a lot to be said for Buddhism, Sabot.

PS. Amaral is just a big, fat debt ridden criminal. I don't have a problem with this description.

bb1 wrote:The worst thing, to me, about the best-known fundamentalists, is that they all come from the same root...the 'people of the book', I think, Christians, Jews and Muslims are known as?
Yes, there is a lot to be said for Buddhism, Sabot.

And it is all the same Book, albeit by a different name. That is the real joke. They all have their One God, and their Prophet. They even share the same religious holidays under slightly different auspices.

The Autumn Equinox isn't far away, Folks. And then we can all plan for yet another Winter Solstice. Shit, it's nearly Christmas.

Worth a read:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/24/norway-massacre-anders-breivik-s-deadly-attack-fueled-by-hatred-of-women.html

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/4910/is_norway%E2%80%99s_suspected_murderer_anders_breivik_a_christian_terrorist/

Those links are very informative, Bonny.

I spied an article earlier today in which it stated that his step mother, who worked with his diplomat father, was involved with immigration. I suppose if society were not 'feminized' then in his mind his parents would never have divorced in the first place?

Buddhism is also known as the Middle Way so there are no extremes.

Very revealing that his father is disgusted:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Norway-Anders-Behring-Breivik-Was-On-Intelligence-Watch-List-After-Buying-Chemicals-Online/Article/201107416036733?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16036733_Norway%3A_Anders_Behring_Breivik_Was_On_Intelligence_Watch_List_After_Buying_Chemicals_Online

His father has been reported as saying his son should have committed suicide instead of surrendering to police.
Speaking from his home in France Jens Breivik told TV2: "I think that ultimately he should have taken his own life rather than kill so many people."
The pair have not been in contact for several years

That is a shortened version of what his father has been saying; suffice to say, the poor man has disowned him, not least for his supine cowardice when faced with an armed SWAT team.

Saw his father's comments earlier today, Bonny. I thought his father was correct in saying he should have killed himself and not anyone else.

However, he certainly has his fathers attention now, doesn't he?

I think he had every intention of NOT dying; if he did get killed, then he wouldn't be able to read his manifesto out in court, would he? And he did try to and was shut up very fast. Nor was he allowed to wear a 'uniform' when he went to the court - to me this smacks of exhibitionism, which is why I said I don't think he intended to die. No virgins for him anyway, just a very stern St Peter sending him down below if he had copped it! LL

Of course he had no intention, LL. He wanted to astound the court with his propaganda.......

Reminds me of someone else in a different way.



http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/263734-norway-killer-had-bp-aberdeen-base-as-a-target/

Norway killer had BP Aberdeen base as a 'target'

Anders Behring Breivik included BP's headquarters in Aberdeen on a list of places to attack included in his infamous 'manifesto'.

By Shiona McCallum
25 July 2011 16:19 BST

North Sea oil and gas platforms and BP's Aberdeen base were both targets for attacks by the man accused of the Norway massacre.

Anders Behring Breivik, 32, admitted carrying out the bombings and youth camp shootings in which more than 70 people died.

At a court hearing in Oslo on Friday, Breivik pleaded not guilty to charges of murder, claiming he had acted to "save Europe" from Islam.

In a detailed 1,500-page manifesto, titled 2083: A European Declaration of Independence and written in English, he identified potential locations for similar terror attacks.

BP operates its British fields from their base in Dyce which was mentioned in a manifesto written by Breivik. He identifies this base along with several North Sea oilfields as potential UK targets.

In the document he said: “Sabotage operations – the most efficient ways to cripple the current Western European multiculturalist regimes.

“Choose targets wisely and ensure that the secondary effects will have devastating effects.”

He concluded that action should be taken to hit energy infrastructure against countries, including Scotland, which are “beyond hope of saving through the democratical means due to decades of severe ideological brainwashing.”

BP have responded to the document saying they are aware of the information but have been advised by the authorities that there is no specific threat that would require any new security measures.

The manifesto was posted online hours before the attacks took place on Friday.

The 32-year-old claimed he was recruited by two English right-wing extremists at a meeting in the UK back in 2002.

In response to this news the Prime Minister chaired a meeting of the National Security Council where it was agreed experts will look at whether "adequate scrutiny" has been given to far-right extremists in the UK.

As Norway deals with the aftermath of the massacre, the UK government has said it must make sure that everything possible is done to protect the safety of the British people.

He concluded that action should be taken to hit energy infrastructure against countries, including Scotland, which are “beyond hope of saving through the democratical means due to decades of severe ideological brainwashing.”

Oh, charming! So, a Right Wing Aryan nutjob thinks he has the right to dictate to the Scottish people?